Which Groove?

[newsailor06]

I have seen a thread here, and have checked the archives, but can't find it. I have a Harken furler with two grooves in the foil. In this thread, that I can not find, the discussion was about which groove I should use. I know some say it doesn't matter, but others had an opinion based on which way the sail was furled.On mine, the furler line extends down the starboard side to the cockpit. When rolling up the jib for storage, the sail rolls also to the starboard side. I seem to remember, I think, where it was recommended that one should use the port groove in the foil if the sail rolls up to starboard and use the starboard groove if it rolls up to port.Can anyone confirm this or am I just losing my memory in my old age?

 

[newsailor06]

I have seen a thread here, and have checked the archives, but can't find it. I have a Harken furler with two grooves in the foil. In this thread, that I can not find, the discussion was about which groove I should use. I know some say it doesn't matter, but others had an opinion based on which way the sail was furled.On mine, the furler line extends down the starboard side to the cockpit. When rolling up the jib for storage, the sail rolls also to the starboard side. I seem to remember, I think, where it was recommended that one should use the port groove in the foil if the sail rolls up to starboard and use the starboard groove if it rolls up to port.Can anyone confirm this or am I just losing my memory in my old age?

 

[Dennis W.]

Get in the Groove

Furlex recommends that you use the groove based on direction of roll. When furling the headsail if the foil rotates clockwise use the port groove, anti-clockwise use the starboard groove.Dennis W.S/V FullSailed

 

[Dennis W.]

Get in the Groove

Furlex recommends that you use the groove based on direction of roll. When furling the headsail if the foil rotates clockwise use the port groove, anti-clockwise use the starboard groove.Dennis W.S/V FullSailed

 

[Jack W -2005 H 36]

Correct

That's what it says in my manual.However, it's a micro management difference in my opinion. I tried it both ways. It seems to stick for a second if you do it the opposite way.Beats the heck out of me why it makes that little bit of a difference but it seems to. Might as well do it as they recommend.

 

[Jack W -2005 H 36]

Correct

That's what it says in my manual.However, it's a micro management difference in my opinion. I tried it both ways. It seems to stick for a second if you do it the opposite way.Beats the heck out of me why it makes that little bit of a difference but it seems to. Might as well do it as they recommend.

 

[newsailor06]

OK...I think I have it

I think mine is correct and it still hangs up whether I am furling or rolling up the sail. Here is how mine is set up. When I unfurl (let out) the jib, the drum turns clockwise (as I look down on it from the deck) and the line rolls on the port side. When I furl (roll up) the sail, the drum turns counter clockwise (as I look down on it from the deck) and loads the sail on the starboard side. I have the luff in the starboard groove. So it sounds like it is set up correctly.The sticking must be coming from the halyard end. I fellow sailor and I will be working on it tomorrow, so we will concentrate on the masthead end.Thanks

 

[newsailor06]

OK...I think I have it

I think mine is correct and it still hangs up whether I am furling or rolling up the sail. Here is how mine is set up. When I unfurl (let out) the jib, the drum turns clockwise (as I look down on it from the deck) and the line rolls on the port side. When I furl (roll up) the sail, the drum turns counter clockwise (as I look down on it from the deck) and loads the sail on the starboard side. I have the luff in the starboard groove. So it sounds like it is set up correctly.The sticking must be coming from the halyard end. I fellow sailor and I will be working on it tomorrow, so we will concentrate on the masthead end.Thanks

 

[Jack W -2005 H 36]

Let us know how it goes

Hey-it's a sailboat-what the heck-if everything worked perfectly, it would be a__________(fill in the blank).

 

[Jack W -2005 H 36]

Let us know how it goes

Hey-it's a sailboat-what the heck-if everything worked perfectly, it would be a__________(fill in the blank).

 

[RichH]

It doesn't matter which groove....

"Binding" problems:How to load a harken (and most other) foil so that the top swivel doesnt 'bind' when you 'furl' the sail.Raise the sail in the foil groove but DISCONNECTED from the bottom swivel, attached ONLY to the top swivel.Measure the distance/gap between the shackle on the lower swivel and the bottom of the 'ring' on the fully RAISED sail.If the sail is racing laminate subtract about 1.5" from this dimensionIf the sail is 'cruising laminate' subtract about 2' from this dimensionIf woven dacron then about 2.5" from this dimension.(if for 'advanced' sail shaping, you apply HEAVY halyard tension at varying wind strengths, you must add the amount of maximum 'luff stretch' to the above.) Then, make up a rope*** or wire cable 'pendent' to the precise dimensions above, and connect the pendent between the TOP of the sail and the TOP SWIVEL of the furler. *** use small diameter *non-stretch* high tech line .... and simply 'lash-up' the pendent. Simply buy a spool of 4 or 5mm non-stretch and run MANY loops between the sail and the bottom swivel shackle and finish by wrapping the loops and then making a few 'knots' ... the diameter of the pendent 'lashing' should be approximately the same diameter as your halyard. This will allow the top swivel to be properly located at near the VERY TOP of the Foil when the sail is raised. If the Top Swivel is lower than near the VERY TOP of the foil you will get 'binding' of the sail when you attempt to 'furl' it. Each headsail that you use should have its very own 'pendent'. When you then raise the sail (with both top and bottom connected) and you apply your maximum halyard tension, the top swivel should be just an inch or two from the VERY top of the foil. With the top swivel so located (at the VERY top of the foil) you should have no 'binding' problems due to the top swivel. If, with the pendent installed, you still have a 'binding problem' .... look up to the top swivel and see if its attempting to wrap the halyard around the swivel when you experience any 'binding'. If with the proper sized pendent, this still happens then you need to apply a 'diverter block' up near the top of the mast to change the (very important) ***lead angle*** that halyard makes with the top swivel. Putting a proper dimensioned 'pendant' on the top of the sail will, 99% of the time, get you to the correct 'lead angle' of the halyard to the top swivel. For most furlers the top swivel HAS to be very close to the very TOP of the foil or the halyard may want to 'wrap' the swivel. Added later. make sure that your rigging tension (backstay is at a minimum of 12-15% tension). If the headstay (via improper backstay tension) is too loose that will also add to the 'angle problem' when the headstay 'flops around'. hope this helps.

 

[RichH]

It doesn't matter which groove....

"Binding" problems:How to load a harken (and most other) foil so that the top swivel doesnt 'bind' when you 'furl' the sail.Raise the sail in the foil groove but DISCONNECTED from the bottom swivel, attached ONLY to the top swivel.Measure the distance/gap between the shackle on the lower swivel and the bottom of the 'ring' on the fully RAISED sail.If the sail is racing laminate subtract about 1.5" from this dimensionIf the sail is 'cruising laminate' subtract about 2' from this dimensionIf woven dacron then about 2.5" from this dimension.(if for 'advanced' sail shaping, you apply HEAVY halyard tension at varying wind strengths, you must add the amount of maximum 'luff stretch' to the above.) Then, make up a rope*** or wire cable 'pendent' to the precise dimensions above, and connect the pendent between the TOP of the sail and the TOP SWIVEL of the furler. *** use small diameter *non-stretch* high tech line .... and simply 'lash-up' the pendent. Simply buy a spool of 4 or 5mm non-stretch and run MANY loops between the sail and the bottom swivel shackle and finish by wrapping the loops and then making a few 'knots' ... the diameter of the pendent 'lashing' should be approximately the same diameter as your halyard. This will allow the top swivel to be properly located at near the VERY TOP of the Foil when the sail is raised. If the Top Swivel is lower than near the VERY TOP of the foil you will get 'binding' of the sail when you attempt to 'furl' it. Each headsail that you use should have its very own 'pendent'. When you then raise the sail (with both top and bottom connected) and you apply your maximum halyard tension, the top swivel should be just an inch or two from the VERY top of the foil. With the top swivel so located (at the VERY top of the foil) you should have no 'binding' problems due to the top swivel. If, with the pendent installed, you still have a 'binding problem' .... look up to the top swivel and see if its attempting to wrap the halyard around the swivel when you experience any 'binding'. If with the proper sized pendent, this still happens then you need to apply a 'diverter block' up near the top of the mast to change the (very important) ***lead angle*** that halyard makes with the top swivel. Putting a proper dimensioned 'pendant' on the top of the sail will, 99% of the time, get you to the correct 'lead angle' of the halyard to the top swivel. For most furlers the top swivel HAS to be very close to the very TOP of the foil or the halyard may want to 'wrap' the swivel. Added later. make sure that your rigging tension (backstay is at a minimum of 12-15% tension). If the headstay (via improper backstay tension) is too loose that will also add to the 'angle problem' when the headstay 'flops around'. hope this helps.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

sail hang up

have somebody furl (or unfurl) the sail a little. Stand out to the side of boat and look up at bearing cartrage at top of sail. Look just above this and see if halyard is wrapped around fore stay . If so, release halyard. have friend unfurl sail by hand and pull down gently on sail. shake loose end of halyard like a whip- this will help loosen twisted halyard at top. Bearing cartrage will come down with sail. lubricate bearing block with sail spray lube. It is this bearing hanging up that causes friction problem. when you pull on sheets to open sail it feels real "notchy" not smooth.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

sail hang up

have somebody furl (or unfurl) the sail a little. Stand out to the side of boat and look up at bearing cartrage at top of sail. Look just above this and see if halyard is wrapped around fore stay . If so, release halyard. have friend unfurl sail by hand and pull down gently on sail. shake loose end of halyard like a whip- this will help loosen twisted halyard at top. Bearing cartrage will come down with sail. lubricate bearing block with sail spray lube. It is this bearing hanging up that causes friction problem. when you pull on sheets to open sail it feels real "notchy" not smooth.

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

EXCELLENT post Rich

After absorbing some of your wisdom, it is obvious that most of my problem was cured by just the dumb luck of getting better halyard geometry after lubing the cheap swivel that came on my boat. Bottom line to new sailor, look up for wrapped (Twisted) halyard. Thanks for all your great posts Rich. Lance

 

[LANCE ON CLOUD NINE]

EXCELLENT post Rich

After absorbing some of your wisdom, it is obvious that most of my problem was cured by just the dumb luck of getting better halyard geometry after lubing the cheap swivel that came on my boat. Bottom line to new sailor, look up for wrapped (Twisted) halyard. Thanks for all your great posts Rich. Lance

 

[Neil McDonald]

Furler Problems

This is slightly off-topic, but I had good success in improving furler performance by working hard on the optimum placement for a block that controls the furling line feed to the furler drum. Not sure what the professionals do, but my objective was to locate the block so that a line running from it to the middle of the drum made an angle of exactly 90 degrees with the furling mechanism centre line. It is not too difficult to calculate the block position based on the overall geometry of the forestay and mast. I also tried to place the block a reasonable distance away from the drum, in order to limit the tendency to pull line to the middle of the drum when furling. However this objective was limited by the size of my chain locker, where the furling drum resides.

 

[Neil McDonald]

Furler Problems

This is slightly off-topic, but I had good success in improving furler performance by working hard on the optimum placement for a block that controls the furling line feed to the furler drum. Not sure what the professionals do, but my objective was to locate the block so that a line running from it to the middle of the drum made an angle of exactly 90 degrees with the furling mechanism centre line. It is not too difficult to calculate the block position based on the overall geometry of the forestay and mast. I also tried to place the block a reasonable distance away from the drum, in order to limit the tendency to pull line to the middle of the drum when furling. However this objective was limited by the size of my chain locker, where the furling drum resides.

 

[newsailor06]

Rich and All

Thanks a lot for your input. All the information that has been posted has been helpful. We will be trying everything that has been recommended here. I am hopeful that something other that the "diverter block" will help. I really don't want to take down the mast again. I do think that the possibility exists that we might need the pendant, more tension on the backstay ...or even possibly the sail needs to be cut down. I bought it originally from a guy that has a Catalina Capri. The sail needed to be cut down across the bottom since the luff is longer on the Capri's. However, other that the sticking, it works great when furled. We suspect that it is something simple, but just haven't had the chance to check it. We installed the furler at the last of the season and only used it a couple of times since.I will let you know what we find.

 

[newsailor06]

Rich and All

Thanks a lot for your input. All the information that has been posted has been helpful. We will be trying everything that has been recommended here. I am hopeful that something other that the "diverter block" will help. I really don't want to take down the mast again. I do think that the possibility exists that we might need the pendant, more tension on the backstay ...or even possibly the sail needs to be cut down. I bought it originally from a guy that has a Catalina Capri. The sail needed to be cut down across the bottom since the luff is longer on the Capri's. However, other that the sticking, it works great when furled. We suspect that it is something simple, but just haven't had the chance to check it. We installed the furler at the last of the season and only used it a couple of times since.I will let you know what we find.