Wheel Conversion

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Oct 6, 2011
678
CM 32 USA
Well, Gary... sorry I offended you. Actually, my comment was meant to encourage him to seek another solution to his cockpit space problem.... and if you'll review the thread you'll note there were others that weren't particularly in love with putting a wheel on a small boat either..... but hey, it's just an opinion.
I was not offended, and not wanting to pick on you, I just think new members need encouraged just a little, that's all.

Some do, the bloke that pointed his sailboat towards islands south east, and got towed into port for sailing lessons, ended up being everybody's lap dog. Lol

I put together everything needed to add wheel helm to my Mac 25, before I purchased my 32 with Edson helm.
 
Jan 22, 2008
53
Macgregor 21 MN
A lot of old school sail boats had rear facing wheels. They were tilted at a back angle and used a worm and sector gearing arrangement. You might consider using a steering gear form an old car and a short arm mounted at right angle to the rudder head. One bolt to remove it from the rudder. You might even consider using the tie rod & ball joints. Paint it well to keep it from rusting. It will last forever and take up minimal room. Get a suicide knob for tacking!
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,164
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
I was not offended, and not wanting to pick on you, I just think new members need encouraged just a little, that's all.

Some do, the bloke that pointed his sailboat towards islands south east, and got towed into port for sailing lessons, ended up being everybody's lap dog. Lol

I put together everything needed to add wheel helm to my Mac 25, before I purchased my 32 with Edson helm.
That's cool... I was a little blunt... but there was never any intent to criticize the person........ just the overall aesthetic of a steering wheel on a small sailboat... and that's only my opinion.

Anyhow.... I thought his idea was pretty creative.... but to gain more room in the cockpit he might look at some of the other suggestions posted so far. like raising the the tiller or using a whipstaff... Most reverse facing wheels I've seen are mounted on boats with rudders attached to fixed keels or where the rudder post comes up through the hull... the C22's rudder is hanging off the back, so a gearbox might be an impractical solution.

If the guy ran off because some folks didn't like his idea.... well.... that's being pretty thin skinned but if he's really looking for constructive comments and criticism, which he said he was, he'll be back with an update.
 
May 31, 2004
858
Catalina 28 Branford
New: I'm not going to get into the pros and cons of wheel vs. tiller. As you can see, plenty of people have some strong opinions. However, if one of the big problems with the tiller is that it bangs into the knees of your crew, you can switch to a curved tiller. I was using a straight tiller on my Oday 23, and I had the same complaint. I replaced the straight stick with a curved tiller from H&L, model 112 F. Its got a big sweeping upwards curve that keeps it out of the way while steering. Made a big difference for me.

They have them available in this site's store for about $97.

http://shop.odayowners.com/prod.php?2813/Wood Tillers

Defender has them for $73.

http://search.defender.com/?expression=112f&x=5&y=6

I bet West Marine and others have them too. Shop around.

Good luck.
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,164
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
.... if one of the big problems with the tiller is that it bangs into the knees of your crew, you can switch to a curved tiller. I was using a straight tiller on my Oday 23, and I had the same complaint. I replaced the straight stick with a curved tiller from H&L, model 112 F. Its got a big sweeping upwards curve that keeps it out of the way while steering. Made a big difference for me............. etc.
Excellent suggestion... hope our original poster is still reading this thread.
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
On tillers...

The tiller. Surely this is the work of the devil.
Now that I've got that out of the way, if you have to have a modified tiller, build one. They are surprisingly simple to make, as on a 22 they only, (and conveniently), were built to be two inches wide. So, just buy one inch wide hardwood of your choice, (I used oak), and glue the two pieces together with Gorilla Glue or Titebond, and there you go. With either of these two adhesives, you can not beat it apart with an ax. Which is what I consider every time I look at it, but regardless; then whiz out the shape you want with a common jigsaw.
So in answer to the outcry I may hear about it, "But Chris, you can't use hardwoods on a boat". Yeah right. You think all those wooden ships that mankind has been building for ten thousand years was made out of teak? Oak hulls, and pine masts. And, I've got a secret formula that only two people in the world know about. Myself, and a Chinaman that taught it to me, and I've been meaning to kill him to keep the secret safe. We call it varnish.
Little has changed about this stuff since the time of the Egyptians, and further refinements typically only "ruin" it. With more than ten, and less than fifteen coats of Schooner varnish, cardboard will withstand the elements. I get more comments out of my Home Depot tiller from the dock walkers than anything on the boat.
Maybe because I'm utterly insane, (as I'm relatively sure most people on here have ascertained), but I see little use in spending money I don't have to. It's a tiller. Not a family heirloom, or a coffee table conversation piece. Why beat up and bang mahogany. For the price of some of these pieces of wood, I can replace it every year for ten years. And if you are going to sail in the path of Joshua Slocum and pass the boat on to the grandkids, by all means spend a lot of money on something exotic. But in the reality check, is that what's really going to happen?
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
The tiller. Surely this is the work of the devil.
Now that I've got that out of the way, if you have to have a modified tiller, build one. They are surprisingly simple to make, as on a 22 they only, (and conveniently), were built to be two inches wide. So, just buy one inch wide hardwood of your choice, (I used oak), and glue the two pieces together with Gorilla Glue or Titebond, and there you go. With either of these two adhesives, you can not beat it apart with an ax. Which is what I consider every time I look at it, but regardless; then whiz out the shape you want with a common jigsaw.
So in answer to the outcry I may hear about it, "But Chris, you can't use hardwoods on a boat". Yeah right. You think all those wooden ships that mankind has been building for ten thousand years was made out of teak? Oak hulls, and pine masts. And, I've got a secret formula that only two people in the world know about. Myself, and a Chinaman that taught it to me, and I've been meaning to kill him to keep the secret safe. We call it varnish.
Little has changed about this stuff since the time of the Egyptians, and further refinements typically only "ruin" it. With more than ten, and less than fifteen coats of Schooner varnish, cardboard will withstand the elements. I get more comments out of my Home Depot tiller from the dock walkers than anything on the boat.
Maybe because I'm utterly insane, (as I'm relatively sure most people on here have ascertained), but I see little use in spending money I don't have to. It's a tiller. Not a family heirloom, or a coffee table conversation piece. Why beat up and bang mahogany. For the price of some of these pieces of wood, I can replace it every year for ten years. And if you are going to sail in the path of Joshua Slocum and pass the boat on to the grandkids, by all means spend a lot of money on something exotic. But in the reality check, is that what's really going to happen?
I have a boat built from white oak frames with a plywood skin. I have another boat with steam-bent plywood over old growth Douglas Fir. I know of a racing boat that has a masonite skin over a plywood frame. The deck of my little 50's outboard runabout has a deck that was crafted basically from plywood used for interior door skins... A wooden cruiser I had a chance to check out several yars ago was named Knot-Free, (or something similar that expressed a double-entendre) as it was build from boards of clear pine purchased at the local lumber store.

Chris Craft boats were not built of mahogany, (native to Africa) but rather a wood with more of a red tinge sourced from the Phillipines. The marketing department dubbed it Phillipine Mahogany to get around the perception that Chris Craft boats were being built from an inferior wood. My point here is that wood snobbery has been around for a long time. :stirthepot: As Chris says, it is not the material, but how it is preserved and maintained! That masonite boat still floats.... :)

Back to topic. If a custom tiller will address an issue or perceived need for an individual cockpit, there is no reason not to go for it. A buddy of mine had a tiller that was split and delaminating. He also wanted it shorter. I took it and did a little rework. First I re-glued the thing back together. Without knowing the previous adhesive, I used some thickened West Systems as the adhesive. After it was a solid piece again, I trimmed it to the length he wanted.

Fully knowing that tillers often split because of the loading applied by the mounting bolts, I took the shortened tiller and cut away two wide rabbets, one on each side, and then added cheek blocks to both sides of the tiller, These two new pieces are glued on, (with Franklin Titebond II since it is flexible like wood when cured) perpendicular to the existing laminations, bridging them and spreading the load. Finally, just to be ridiculously anal, (I had time when I did this one) I cross-drilled the tiller assembly where the bolts would go through, drilling it substantially over-sized. Using a homemade die, I pulled custom dowell material to fill the over-sized holes and glued them in, (again Titebond II here). I then cross-drilled for the bolts, and sealed the drilled holes with thinned epoxy.

Now granted I spent more time in an effort to over-build the aft end of a broken stock tiller rather than creating anything truly custom, but again, as Chris shared, most of it is doable and well within the grasp of anyone who can run a jigsaw and a drill well.

There was that other custom tiller I made a few years back, but we won't go there... :D Integral internal tiller lock, horizontal steam bent curved laminations of oak and poplar.... Nah, nevermind.

Anyway, here are some pics of the restored tiller as it was being rebuilt.
 

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Sep 5, 2007
689
MacGregor 26X Rochester
. . . just the overall aesthetic of a steering wheel on a small sailboat . . .
Here's an Aquarius 7.0 (an A23 with transom mounted rudder) I used to own, into which the PO installed a Yacht Specialties pedestal and wheel with push/pull cable out the transom. I took it off and put the tiller back on, as it just didn't look right, and it took up too much room in the cockpit. The tiller was high enough not to bang into anyone's knees, though, and got higher still when the rudder was pulled up the long pintle for shallow water.
 

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Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
Kid tested, and mother approved.

Very nice wood work Phil. A craftsman.

And I gotta admit, that wheel doesn't look right on that boat..

I guess one of my bigger problems with a tiller is, a lot of people, (guests), just can not grasp the concept of steering with a tiller. I practically grew up on boats, so a tiller, or even the small O.B. motor comes natural to me. So if I need to leave the accursed thing, a lot of people seem to have trouble with it. So in a tight situation, when I need to be elsewhere on the boat, my appointed helmsman a lot of times is so apprehensive, then too many, and often wrong corrections are made. So enter the autopilot. This is the work of the Lord. When I am not using it, it resides on a sacred place, on my mantle, resting on velvet, and a candle burning on both sides 24/7. It is observed in reverence. Lightly dusted off once an hour, using only the feather of an ostrich, that is changed out daily. And one should speak softly when in the same room with it.
I'm sitting here right now looking at it, and my eyes are moist.
 
Dec 11, 2008
1,338
catalina C27 stillwater
Kid tested, and mother approved.

Very nice wood work Phil. A craftsman.

And I gotta admit, that wheel doesn't look right on that boat..

I guess one of my bigger problems with a tiller is, a lot of people, (guests), just can not grasp the concept of steering with a tiller. I practically grew up on boats, so a tiller, or even the small O.B. motor comes natural to me. So if I need to leave the accursed thing, a lot of people seem to have trouble with it. So in a tight situation, when I need to be elsewhere on the boat, my appointed helmsman a lot of times is so apprehensive, then too many, and often wrong corrections are made. So enter the autopilot. This is the work of the Lord. When I am not using it, it resides on a sacred place, on my mantle, resting on velvet, and a candle burning on both sides 24/7. It is observed in reverence. Lightly dusted off once an hour, using only the feather of an ostrich, that is changed out daily. And one should speak softly when in the same room with it.
I'm sitting here right now looking at it, and my eyes are moist.

Sumpin' wrong with you.... :D
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,164
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Here's an Aquarius 7.0 (an A23 with transom mounted rudder) I used to own, into which the PO installed a Yacht Specialties pedestal and wheel with push/pull cable out the transom. I took it off and put the tiller back on, as it just didn't look right, and it took up too much room in the cockpit. The tiller was high enough not to bang into anyone's knees, though, and got higher still when the rudder was pulled up the long pintle for shallow water.
Besides the funky look, the wheel's functionality is minimal.... since the sail controls appear to be on the cabin top... a very long stretch if you're sitting behind the wheel driving your pretty boat. A tiller makes shorthanding much easier since you can straddle it and steer with your knees while working the sails.
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
The tiller. Surely this is the work of the devil.
Now that I've got that out of the way, if you have to have a modified tiller, build one. They are surprisingly simple to make, as on a 22 they only, (and conveniently), were built to be two inches wide. So, just buy one inch wide hardwood of your choice, (I used oak), and glue the two pieces together with Gorilla Glue or Titebond, and there you go. With either of these two adhesives, you can not beat it apart with an ax. Which is what I consider every time I look at it, but regardless; then whiz out the shape you want with a common jigsaw.
So in answer to the outcry I may hear about it, "But Chris, you can't use hardwoods on a boat". Yeah right. You think all those wooden ships that mankind has been building for ten thousand years was made out of teak? Oak hulls, and pine masts. And, I've got a secret formula that only two people in the world know about. Myself, and a Chinaman that taught it to me, and I've been meaning to kill him to keep the secret safe. We call it varnish.
Little has changed about this stuff since the time of the Egyptians, and further refinements typically only "ruin" it. With more than ten, and less than fifteen coats of Schooner varnish, cardboard will withstand the elements. I get more comments out of my Home Depot tiller from the dock walkers than anything on the boat.
Maybe because I'm utterly insane, (as I'm relatively sure most people on here have ascertained), but I see little use in spending money I don't have to. It's a tiller. Not a family heirloom, or a coffee table conversation piece. Why beat up and bang mahogany. For the price of some of these pieces of wood, I can replace it every year for ten years. And if you are going to sail in the path of Joshua Slocum and pass the boat on to the grandkids, by all means spend a lot of money on something exotic. But in the reality check, is that what's really going to happen?

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

^post of the year!

-------

Whenever I take someone out that has not sailed a lot, they have a much harder time using a tiller than a wheel.

I think those people need to sail sunfishes for a year, and they won't want a wheel any more.
 
Jan 22, 2008
880
Fed up w/ personal attacks I'm done with SBO
Besides the funky look . . . .
Well Joe, you're certainly entitled to your opinion (I left out your first opinion on the subject). Here's my opinion: looking closely at the picture posted earlier it doesn't strike me as funky, controversial or any other descriptor that's been thrown about. In fact, it looks good. Darn good.
 
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Oct 6, 2008
857
Hunter, Island Packet, Catalina, San Juan 26,38,22,23 Kettle Falls, Washington
New2-22, I sailed a C22 for 5 years about 5 times a week for 5 to 6 months a year. At first a few friends came out for a ride but the longer I owned and sailed her the more I was by myself.
I ran into the same problem as you have so I replaced the tiller and installed a curved tiller that helped clear the knees. Having my friends move forward in the cockpit helped clear the tiller and made the boat sail much better and faster.
Then I was sailing by myself more often than not so I started using a long extendable tiller handle. Now she's fast and allows myself a much greater range of movement in the cockpit. I moved every control to the cockpit and quickly found that I enjoyed the sport more alone. The C22 sails very well in good wind and waves but flatout carries the mail in big wind and waves. I couldn't do this anywhere as well with a wheel.
Sail your boat for a summer and then make your choice.
Have a ball.
Ray
 

Joe

.
Jun 1, 2004
8,164
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Well Joe, you're certainly entitled to your opinion (I left out your first opinion on the subject). Here's my opinion: looking closely at the picture posted earlier it doesn't strike me as funky, controversial or any other descriptor that's been thrown about. In fact, it looks good. Darn good.
Well Neil, I was referring to the Aquarius 23 in tkansler's post. I have NO problem with a wheel, helm ... whatever.... on a larger boat. . but if you're happy with what you have....... that's awesome.

Yours looks great, congratulations.
 
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