What's wrong with the 'trim' on this boat?

[sinnettc]

Looking at that photo again, I just realized that's not a jib, it's a staysail. The boat is a cutter, which means he's reduced his sail plan quite a bit. Doesn't seem like that changes the trim issues, but I wonder if he even HAS adjustable cars for the staysail?

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm really late getting to this discussion but I also am really glad to see the photograph and read the comments. I've had the perception that an over-twisted sail is normally spilling power. But this really illustrates how a sail can be over-sheeted at the bottom end with the excessive twist merely increasing draft to over-power the sail. In fact, I distinctly remember Alan making the comment (in a thread that was going on over a year ago) that over-twisting the sail can be over-powering. I challenged that statement and getting no reply, it went unexplained.

This also illustrates the importance of understanding how all sail controls are integrated. I find that Don's guidelines focus on this important concept more than most of the sail trim literature that I read.

 

[RichH]

Not a staysail, look at the old fashioned 'jumper stays' on the front of the mast ... that "V" shape; its a fractional rigged sloop. What you see as the 'stay' on the front of the boat is probably a mast head spinnaker halyard tied off to the bow pulpit.

 

[trapoc]

Not Enough Ballast!! They Need More Weight On The Windward Side

 

[topcat0399]

Not Enough Ballast!! They Need More Weight On The Windward Side

ya think???

welcome to the board.

 

[trapoc]

Thanks for the welcome Topcat

 

[Don Guillette]

RichH: Thank you for the topic, which are hard to come by at this time of the sailing season. When the topic goes to 3 pages and maybe 4 you know you picked a good one.

 

[25yearslater]

Perhaps an explanation of the jib twist is what I need to fully appreciate what forces are occuring. I see the upper 1/3 of the jib twisted 90 degrees to the foot. The draft seems far forward as well. Also, how does one visualize this from the cockpit? Easier to see from the photo. I read Don's book and am having reasonable success with minimum heel and keeping hull speed well above theoretical but I think I can get more if I fully comprehend all sail trim errors.

 

[Stu Jackson]

It could well be that the skipper moved the jib fairlead aft deliberately to dump air off the top and then when they moved to a beam reach and the winds built, what you see in the photo happened. It could also be that they don't have a moveable jib fairlead (or even tracks - hard to see in the photo, and the starboard side is buried).

 

[Alain Pascal]

hello,

I'll put my 2cents.
I think they just got cut in a blow and dumped their sail.
they seem to be skirting a nasty cloud formation that just caught up with them.
forward you can see the sky and light, it also seem that some wave are still running fore and aft while others are now a beam, aft of them the cloud formation is really dark.
I think they were on a closer point of sail then a blow came with new wind direction putting them suddenly on a beam or beam-reach and they released their sails and are running the blow. this explain the healing of the boat the sailplan completely out of shape, the hiking position of the crew. They appear surprised yet in 'control' or at least no panic so it suggest that they haven't been sailing like that for long. Still a dicy position as the main is locked in by the boom in the water and the jib will as mentioned, power-up if they try to come up... so I would rid it or go down a bit to regain control and level the boat before adjusting the sails.

 

[Joe]

yep, too much wind, too much sea, too much sail.... better let go of something ... soon.

 

[Kermit]

Notice the helmsman's pants are brown.

 

[wufibugs]

They're not wearing wetsuits?
Seriously, looking at the whitecaps, the wind is directly over the port rail and not gusting because the seem uniform throughout the picture. Hard to tell from the boom, but looking at the mast, seems like he has 2 reef points in the main. Looking at the wake and tiller, he's making no effort to fall off or round up so I'm assuming they've decided the boat is balanced just where they want to be to ride the rail [toe at this point though could be the handrail if the wind picks up]. As others have said, he could get hull speed with less water in the cockpit if he rounds up a little takes some twist out of the sails

 

[Sublime]

I'm still a very inexperienced sailor with a boat that doesn't have adjustable fairleads, a backstay, or even a traveler. So I haven't been able to experiment much which I believe has hindered my learnings since I can't go out and play with these adjustments.

I'm trying to learn from ya'll and have Don's book. However, I thought that to reduce heeling, you could twist the sails so that you are basically only powering the bottom half/two-thirds of the sail? And to power up the entire sail, you reduce twist?
So have these guys put in twist but neglected to reduce the draft? Is it possible to twist the sail without introducing more draft? Or did they twist it too much? I'm a little confused.

And what would you do in this situation? I'd have a mind to just release that jib sheet quickly. That amount of heel isn't doing any favors as far as speed or stress on the rigging. I'd be surprised if they had any ability to steer.