I am considering getting an older 27-30 foot sailboat, that will be kept in the water. Probably an Erickson, Oday, or Catalna. After all is said and done including berthing fees, maintenance, insurance, what is the approximate average monthly cost to own the boat if its paid off? $200 a month, $300 a month? Any comments are appreciated. Mark
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Depends
I suggest you call a few marinas in your area and ask them what they charge, then call a few marine insurance companies and your home owners insurance and see what they charge. After that you need to decide about things like winter storage, electricity, bottom paint and if you can do most maintenance yourself. After all that you should have a pretty good picture of the cost. If you can't do your own maintenance the cost goes way up. Lastly, your marina may require a personal liability policy in the total amount of one million. Check that out. Best of luck.
I suggest you call a few marinas in your area and ask them what they charge, then call a few marine insurance companies and your home owners insurance and see what they charge. After that you need to decide about things like winter storage, electricity, bottom paint and if you can do most maintenance yourself. After all that you should have a pretty good picture of the cost. If you can't do your own maintenance the cost goes way up. Lastly, your marina may require a personal liability policy in the total amount of one million. Check that out. Best of luck.
how much do you have ??
you can spend as much as you want ! really it depends on how much you want everything to work or be perfect ! i would figure 200.00 a month min for bottom jobs, new sails, dock lines ....and the list keeps going ! get a good survey so you will have a list of right off o what needs to be fixed GOOD LUCK
you can spend as much as you want ! really it depends on how much you want everything to work or be perfect ! i would figure 200.00 a month min for bottom jobs, new sails, dock lines ....and the list keeps going ! get a good survey so you will have a list of right off o what needs to be fixed GOOD LUCK
Big cost may be marina
Depending on where you are, marina space can be cheap or very expensive. S. Florida, 40 ft slip 2 years ago where 6 to 800 or more per month. 27 foot slip would be much less. Other areas are not so expensive. Where I am, slip space for a 37 foot boat can run from 200 or so for storage, up to 700 for live-aboard in a fancy marina. Call some marinas in the area where you would keep the boat and see. The other costs will depend on how much you use it. My big expense, after marina space - I live-aboard - is upgrades. Not upkeep and repairs, (I have plenty of those) but upgrades. My autopilot needs replacing. I could spend 700 to replace what I have, but it is undersized, so I will spend 3 times that much (nearly) to upgrade to what I really need.
Depending on where you are, marina space can be cheap or very expensive. S. Florida, 40 ft slip 2 years ago where 6 to 800 or more per month. 27 foot slip would be much less. Other areas are not so expensive. Where I am, slip space for a 37 foot boat can run from 200 or so for storage, up to 700 for live-aboard in a fancy marina. Call some marinas in the area where you would keep the boat and see. The other costs will depend on how much you use it. My big expense, after marina space - I live-aboard - is upgrades. Not upkeep and repairs, (I have plenty of those) but upgrades. My autopilot needs replacing. I could spend 700 to replace what I have, but it is undersized, so I will spend 3 times that much (nearly) to upgrade to what I really need.
At least double the mooring fees
figure if you just wish to maintain the boat without out deteriration and upgrades you are looking at least 2 times the cost of your mooring costs (that's figuring the cost of labor and materials is directly related to the cost of mooring in your neck of the woods.) So for example, a 30 foot slip that costs you 400 a month will probably incur another 400 bucks worth of costs a month after electricity, repairs, bottom paint and misc maintenance.
figure if you just wish to maintain the boat without out deteriration and upgrades you are looking at least 2 times the cost of your mooring costs (that's figuring the cost of labor and materials is directly related to the cost of mooring in your neck of the woods.) So for example, a 30 foot slip that costs you 400 a month will probably incur another 400 bucks worth of costs a month after electricity, repairs, bottom paint and misc maintenance.
Another factor
You are in a wonderful position, as you don't have your heart set on any particular make/model and it is usually a buyer's market in that size range. So be on the lookout for a well maintained and equipped boat that belonged to a fastidious owner who needs to sell it soon. If you can be patient and walk away from deals that aren't real good for you, you will sooner or later find a nice boat with newer sails, fresh bottom job, etc., and an eager seller. The dollars you don't have to spend after the purchase on replacements or upgrades are dollars in your pocket. There are lots of guys out there who bought fixer-uppers at a steal, only to find that they had more in them after making them seaworthy than if they had bought a nice boat in the first place, not to mention the labor they put in and the sailing time they lost.
You are in a wonderful position, as you don't have your heart set on any particular make/model and it is usually a buyer's market in that size range. So be on the lookout for a well maintained and equipped boat that belonged to a fastidious owner who needs to sell it soon. If you can be patient and walk away from deals that aren't real good for you, you will sooner or later find a nice boat with newer sails, fresh bottom job, etc., and an eager seller. The dollars you don't have to spend after the purchase on replacements or upgrades are dollars in your pocket. There are lots of guys out there who bought fixer-uppers at a steal, only to find that they had more in them after making them seaworthy than if they had bought a nice boat in the first place, not to mention the labor they put in and the sailing time they lost.
Less than a beach house-mosr
I believe the old saying goes.If you have to ask you can't afford it...But I would say double the slip fee sounds about right and possibly triple if your really into bugeting for my H30 Plus all the toys you just "have to have" and the dinners out because, hey were at the boat that is. That's one reason she's named Always Something...What I did not anticipate is the amount of time involved. I try to use the boat 80 percent of my weekends which we stay aboard. Of that 1 day sail- one day clean, shop, tinker with. But then I like everything just so hence the other reason for the name. I guess one could just repair things when they break and clean it when it rains but what fun would that be??? Buy it-enjoy it- and don't count too much of the money- when you buy a boat two things will happen- you will lose money no matter what- and it will cost you money. One of my dockmates once stated man has never made a more expensive way to go slow. But there is nothing like sailing(just don't tell my girlfriend how much it costs.)
I believe the old saying goes.If you have to ask you can't afford it...But I would say double the slip fee sounds about right and possibly triple if your really into bugeting for my H30 Plus all the toys you just "have to have" and the dinners out because, hey were at the boat that is. That's one reason she's named Always Something...What I did not anticipate is the amount of time involved. I try to use the boat 80 percent of my weekends which we stay aboard. Of that 1 day sail- one day clean, shop, tinker with. But then I like everything just so hence the other reason for the name. I guess one could just repair things when they break and clean it when it rains but what fun would that be??? Buy it-enjoy it- and don't count too much of the money- when you buy a boat two things will happen- you will lose money no matter what- and it will cost you money. One of my dockmates once stated man has never made a more expensive way to go slow. But there is nothing like sailing(just don't tell my girlfriend how much it costs.)
About $0.20 per pound plus...
.... moorage and insurance costs. That should about cover it but if you change things I'll have to re-do the estimate.
.... moorage and insurance costs. That should about cover it but if you change things I'll have to re-do the estimate.
cheaper than a country club
I'll make the assumption that keeping a boat in tha SF Bay area mirrors NY to some extent. Shop around for a marina. See if u get a discount for a combo of winter storage and mooring/launch usage. If not, u might winterize and store your boat elsewhere. Figure that a mooring is typically 1/2 the cost of docking..and less stressful. Mooring, mooring placement, mooring rental, and launch run me close to $1300 p/season for a 32' (the inexpensive part). Haul, bottom paint, and storage runs $3400 -/+. Insurance (boatus) is roughly $5-600. Sailing under the Golden Gate with a good wind at your back just before sunset.....PRICELESS !!!
I'll make the assumption that keeping a boat in tha SF Bay area mirrors NY to some extent. Shop around for a marina. See if u get a discount for a combo of winter storage and mooring/launch usage. If not, u might winterize and store your boat elsewhere. Figure that a mooring is typically 1/2 the cost of docking..and less stressful. Mooring, mooring placement, mooring rental, and launch run me close to $1300 p/season for a 32' (the inexpensive part). Haul, bottom paint, and storage runs $3400 -/+. Insurance (boatus) is roughly $5-600. Sailing under the Golden Gate with a good wind at your back just before sunset.....PRICELESS !!!
Too broad a question...
It largely depends on the area you're in and many other factors. Here's mine from E. Greenwich, RI: Club dues:........................$600.00 Mooring & launch service:.$450.00 Haul/store/launch:............$750.00 Misc maint:........................$200.00 Shrink wrap:......................$250.00 Insurance:.........................$565.00 Fuel:....................................$20.00 TOTAL:............................$2,835.00
It largely depends on the area you're in and many other factors. Here's mine from E. Greenwich, RI: Club dues:........................$600.00 Mooring & launch service:.$450.00 Haul/store/launch:............$750.00 Misc maint:........................$200.00 Shrink wrap:......................$250.00 Insurance:.........................$565.00 Fuel:....................................$20.00 TOTAL:............................$2,835.00
I must be doing something wrong...$.20 per pound?
I have a C27. Marina is $215/mo and insurance is $34/mo. All the maintenance I do myself and I must say its been pretty minimal, costwise. Of course, I value my time at $0/hr but that's because the boat is mine and I enjoy working on it. The boat weighs 6500 lbs (I think). At a rate of approx $.20/lb/mo. that's $1300 a month! Plus moorage and insurance? John, if that's how much YOU pay for your boat I'd LOVE to do your maintenance for you!
Basically, the moorage and insurance are the only FIXED costs. Other than that, a lot depends on how and how much you use the boat. Doing your own maintenance including engine maintenance, bottom jobs, rigging, etc will save you considerably throughout the year. The internet is a great source of info for the DIY boat owner, not to mention a great way to shop for the best prices on parts, etc. A good question to ask the forum is not necessarily the monthly costs of ownership but rather the average cost per outing. Say, annual cost of ownership divided by the number of trips or days sailed that year. Me? I've had far less free time than I thought I would before I bought the boat. I'm affraid to calculate how much each trip had cost last year
I have a C27. Marina is $215/mo and insurance is $34/mo. All the maintenance I do myself and I must say its been pretty minimal, costwise. Of course, I value my time at $0/hr but that's because the boat is mine and I enjoy working on it. The boat weighs 6500 lbs (I think). At a rate of approx $.20/lb/mo. that's $1300 a month! Plus moorage and insurance? John, if that's how much YOU pay for your boat I'd LOVE to do your maintenance for you!
Basically, the moorage and insurance are the only FIXED costs. Other than that, a lot depends on how and how much you use the boat. Doing your own maintenance including engine maintenance, bottom jobs, rigging, etc will save you considerably throughout the year. The internet is a great source of info for the DIY boat owner, not to mention a great way to shop for the best prices on parts, etc. A good question to ask the forum is not necessarily the monthly costs of ownership but rather the average cost per outing. Say, annual cost of ownership divided by the number of trips or days sailed that year. Me? I've had far less free time than I thought I would before I bought the boat. I'm affraid to calculate how much each trip had cost last year Sailing - "The art of slowly going nowhere
at great expense" once had a new powerboater in the next slip remark on how much cheaper it must be to have a sailboat. I almost fell in the water laughing.
at great expense" once had a new powerboater in the next slip remark on how much cheaper it must be to have a sailboat. I almost fell in the water laughing.
Brag a Little Bit
This response has absolutely no relavence to your question. I am just astounded at the costs elsewhere. I spent $1258 in 2004 on my MAC 23 which I leave in the water year around except for a month or two when I drag it out to clean it up and do routine maintenance. $425 was for dock fees. Most of the rest was for car expenses to go sailing. I also spent less than $100 on an AF D-18 almost all of which was for car expenses, if you ignore the $300 cost of the boat plus about $200 to fix it up. I generally sail once or twice a week. I only sailed about 50 times in 2004 because we were gone almost half of the year on a family crisis. Although I love SF as a city, it would appear that it does have its downside.
This response has absolutely no relavence to your question. I am just astounded at the costs elsewhere. I spent $1258 in 2004 on my MAC 23 which I leave in the water year around except for a month or two when I drag it out to clean it up and do routine maintenance. $425 was for dock fees. Most of the rest was for car expenses to go sailing. I also spent less than $100 on an AF D-18 almost all of which was for car expenses, if you ignore the $300 cost of the boat plus about $200 to fix it up. I generally sail once or twice a week. I only sailed about 50 times in 2004 because we were gone almost half of the year on a family crisis. Although I love SF as a city, it would appear that it does have its downside.
Probably $300-400
Mark: You are probably looking at $300-400/mo. Your berthing will probably run about $6/ft (places like Richmond Bay Marina). Then your insurance will probably run about $300/yr (BoatUS). Then you have regular maintenance like bottom cleaning once every 1.5-3 mos. The big question is the initial cost to get the boat fixed up. After that you need to plan for replacement of sails every 5-10 years (sails for your boat would probably run about $2500 for a main and jib. Every 2-4 years you need to be hauled and painted ($600-800) if there are no blisters or other problems. Then you have engine maintenance that you can probably do yourself so there are minor parts that are needed. Don't forget about personal property tax for the govenator (1% of the value), probably $100-125/yr.! Registration is $10 every two years.
Mark: You are probably looking at $300-400/mo. Your berthing will probably run about $6/ft (places like Richmond Bay Marina). Then your insurance will probably run about $300/yr (BoatUS). Then you have regular maintenance like bottom cleaning once every 1.5-3 mos. The big question is the initial cost to get the boat fixed up. After that you need to plan for replacement of sails every 5-10 years (sails for your boat would probably run about $2500 for a main and jib. Every 2-4 years you need to be hauled and painted ($600-800) if there are no blisters or other problems. Then you have engine maintenance that you can probably do yourself so there are minor parts that are needed. Don't forget about personal property tax for the govenator (1% of the value), probably $100-125/yr.! Registration is $10 every two years.
Try before you buy...
In the SF bay area there are several sailing associations that provide members use of their fleet. You can charter boats by the day or by the week. They will also provide lessons so that you learn sailing and navigation. This is a very cost effective way to get access to nice boats. Also, if you decide that you don't like it, you haven't invested a huge amount of money. Another alternative to the expensive marina is a yacht club. Fair winds, Tom
In the SF bay area there are several sailing associations that provide members use of their fleet. You can charter boats by the day or by the week. They will also provide lessons so that you learn sailing and navigation. This is a very cost effective way to get access to nice boats. Also, if you decide that you don't like it, you haven't invested a huge amount of money. Another alternative to the expensive marina is a yacht club. Fair winds, Tom
tom b
I always heard, Break Out Another Thousand! the answer to the question is the question: how much do you want to spend?
I always heard, Break Out Another Thousand! the answer to the question is the question: how much do you want to spend?
Ans. to Greg re $0.20/lb - it's /yr
Thanks for catching that Greg! My figures were based on an Annual cost. All my boat costs are in Quicken and basically I only think in terms of Annual Cost. Looking back I see that the original poster was talking in terms of monthly cost so I really should have figured it that way too. There are a few big costs that crop up besides insurance - like the annual haulout, major replacements like sails, sail cover, lines, etc. and when managing ownership cost I try to "program" these big ticket items out over time. There were a few years early-on when I didn't and costs really got carried away. There is also the love of the boat factor. Remember Peggie's "why is a boat called 'she'"? If you love your boat then you also want to be proud of her and to show that you care you keep her in good shape. Waxing, replacing lines when they start to get tired, keeping nice sails on her, etc. Taking this route will raise the expenses a tad but make boating much more enjoyable. After all, who want's to go out sailing on an old scow?
Thanks for catching that Greg! My figures were based on an Annual cost. All my boat costs are in Quicken and basically I only think in terms of Annual Cost. Looking back I see that the original poster was talking in terms of monthly cost so I really should have figured it that way too. There are a few big costs that crop up besides insurance - like the annual haulout, major replacements like sails, sail cover, lines, etc. and when managing ownership cost I try to "program" these big ticket items out over time. There were a few years early-on when I didn't and costs really got carried away. There is also the love of the boat factor. Remember Peggie's "why is a boat called 'she'"? If you love your boat then you also want to be proud of her and to show that you care you keep her in good shape. Waxing, replacing lines when they start to get tired, keeping nice sails on her, etc. Taking this route will raise the expenses a tad but make boating much more enjoyable. After all, who want's to go out sailing on an old scow?
I agree with Steve D.
I have my C27 berthed in San Leandro and I would say that $300 to $400 per month is right on for the SF Baya Area depending on how much maintenance you do yourself.
I have my C27 berthed in San Leandro and I would say that $300 to $400 per month is right on for the SF Baya Area depending on how much maintenance you do yourself.
Well for me this year will cost
Hauling spring and fall including steping the mast= 860.00.. Boat is stored at my house. Yacht club.. 560.00. New this year. Insurance ..700.00 Boat maint..varies but this spring looks like 800.00 to 1000.00 for odd ball things like the hot water tank,new drive shaft and so on. Last year I paided 2300.00 for the mooring alone at a marina so I am saving about 1700.00 for that cost anyway..
Hauling spring and fall including steping the mast= 860.00.. Boat is stored at my house. Yacht club.. 560.00. New this year. Insurance ..700.00 Boat maint..varies but this spring looks like 800.00 to 1000.00 for odd ball things like the hot water tank,new drive shaft and so on. Last year I paided 2300.00 for the mooring alone at a marina so I am saving about 1700.00 for that cost anyway..
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