What would you do? (Episode II)

[Bill Roosa]

Floating people and poly rope

I have never tried swimming with a poly rope tied to me and the boat. It would be better but I'd want to test it our before I had to do it for real. I don't see any reason to jump in from my boat as we always wear a PDFs. Who caries 200' of poly rope around anyway? you only need 50' for the dingy and it is not much good for anything else. And if he had the presence of mind to have 200' of poly rope on board and available at the cockpit then he would be wearing his PFD when he went forward IMHO.Unconscious people will float eventually when the bugs in their gut make enough gas. The deciding factor is air in the lungs. Most everybody except REALLY fat folks sink if they exhale all the air from their lungs. If you inhale a lung full of water because you are unconscious and face down you sink. Without going into a long story I have first hand experience with unconscious guys in the water. The only exception is a guy who has his collar buttoned and gets a bubble of air trapped in his shirt. Then it depends on the shirt. Long sleeves are better and heavy tight weave fabric is better. Not the kind of stuff you ware on a summer day out boating.

 

[NautiDuck]

This scenario

is very realistic and a pefect example of why you should always wear a PDF the moment the boat leaves the dock. Even if you don't value your own life enough to wear one, think about the trauma of your friend who is trying to rescue you. Having you die while s/he attempts a rescue would have a profound impact on them for the rest of his/her life. Imagine it is your spouse who can't find you because your stupid ass sank.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Floating without a PDF

If you find yourself in this situation and are conscious there are some things you can do to increase your flotation. Button up your shirt and blow air into it then roll on your back and let the air bubble hold you up. Keep your arms down and head in the water. When you need to breath, turn your head and raise it out of the water just enough to get a breath. Then go back to floating face down. Check on the progress of the rescue with each breath. Don't tire yourself out waving and making a commotion. You have to trust the crew to come and get you.Note to my last post: unconscious persons get the air forced out of their lungs from the water pressure on their chest. Wear your PDF and none of this is an issue. It is just a matter of making the decision and doing it. There have been really hot humid days sailing down wind when I wanted to take mine off but then my kid comes on deck and I look at him and realize I have a responsability to stay alive for him. Not much of a decision after that. I guess that is the real issue for most of us. We are just selfish and thinking of ourselves and not our loved ones who will have to soldier on with out us cause we didn't want to be bothered with putting on our PFD.I know I'll get flamed for that last comment but that is how I see it.

 

[muised]

Way to go Franklin

I'm glad someone was brave enough to say something which is probably technically the wrong answer. If the dude is unconscious, over the side I go. I can always get another boat. I'd probably loose the sheets first to have a hope of swimming back, but for a day sail I'm assuming I have a chance of getting picked up. Of course I always have my self inflator on so we'll have some buoyancy for the drift.If he's conscious, he gets the life preserver and I go to work - lots of good suggestions for that scenario. This is an interesting topic.

 

[Capn Dave]

Use a LifeSling

In 60 degree water you have 1-6 hours before hypothermia sets in. If your MOB is awake, throw the Life Sling and do a circle round him. Sort of like getting the tow rope back to a water skier. When you pull on the sling it closes around the MOB and he can't come out. When he/she is at the boat, tie them off if they can climb up with a boarding ladder good, if they are exhausted, attach a 4 part rope vang attach it to the boom then hook the LifeSling line to the vang and pull him aboard.I Fred's scenario it would be hard as hell to call for assistance, and get back in the boat. If I was sailing with Fred I would be yelling, Keep yor ass in the boat!!!!!Fair WindsCap'n Dave

 

[Kirk Gardner]

MOB

1. Stop the boat - most easily accomplished here by heaving to - and than try and identify exactly where he is - and hopefully determine that he is still conscious.2. Get something into the water next to him that floats and he can hang on to - a Seattle Sling (Life Sling), a horseshoe buoy, a type 4 pfd seat cushion etc.3. If possible get a line to him and get him attached to the boat. 4. When he is next to the boat see if he can get up a swim ladder or rope ladder you put in the water - if not use the Seattle Sling to hoist him on board. If no Seattle Sling - make one using a bowline or make some other hoisting mechanism to take advantage of the winch for leverage.5. If he is in the water and unconscious and still afloat - while it is unlikely you will be able to get him back on board safely, try and get the boat as near as possible and use the boat hook to get hold of his clothing and try and keep his head above water. Doing all this alone while getting the sails down, the motor going and keeping him in sight - in 15 knots of wind will be difficult – if not nearly impossible. This exercise underscores the need for all crewmembers to wear PFDs all the time while underway, to keep a strong hold on the boat at all times and – in conditions with wind and waves - to wear a harness attached to the boat.

 

[Di]

A scary problem...

If injury is likely, call for help on the VHF AFTER throwing him/her a life jacket, bear off, jibe and head up to the victim and bring him alongside you on (what was, leeward).ALWAYS KEEP ONE EYE ON THE VICTIM Keep the boat into the wind as best you can (dropping sails wouldn't hurt if possible) and if he is unhurt or minimally hurt supply a ladder...or winch him with the spin pole, main halyard what ever you can easily reach....hopefully life sling is available. A lot to do alone but you HAVE to do it!

 

[mortyd]

what would

not my friend. nobody, but nobody comes aboard without a pfd. once again, you guys are afraid to use the vhf. why???????

 

[Franklin]

floating line

I do have a very long floating line that I use as a painter but also got it very long for this exact reason. I also like to go swimming while I'm heave-to and so I do this tighting the line trick all the time. It feels great to have the boat pull you at a knot too (I'm usually holding it at 10' then though and have on a PFD). I realized I wanted one of these when I had to rescue a guy last year when his buddly sailor left him behind.As for floating...I read that a sailor in the navy fell overboard at 2 am in the Med Sea. Because he worked out with the Marines in the morning, nobody knew he was missing until 33 hours later. He survived by taking his pants off, tieing knots on the legs and swooping air into it and resting on the trapped air inside the pants. 33 hours later, at the same time the Navy was just figuring out he wasn't on the boat, a local fishing boat found him. Said he was almost dead. The navy searched for 3 hours and then gave up. His parents got a call saying he is MIA. Later he called his parents and went home. Weeks later the navy found out he was still alive when he was asking for a discharge.

 

[Bill Roosa]

See that trainig does come in handy

That is the same technique we teach in the Army for water survival. Don't see many folks with long pants on sailing though so not sure how helpfull it would be with shorts. The point is don't give up. There are always optionsYou know after about 15 minutes and the boat is now over the horizon he had to have a really sinking feeling. I can't imagine how I'd feel after 3 or 4 hours and nobody came looking not to mention a whole day and night.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Using the VHF

mortydI don't think we are afraid to use the VHF we just know that the best action is for us to do something right now. Waiting for the CG means at least 15 minutes on a perfect day. In 15 minutes I might have him tied to the boat. I'd certainly be in a better position to render assistance. Maybe I don't understand your concern. Are you saying we should wait for the CG and not do anything? That would be criminal in my mind. And I don't think that is what you are proposing either BTW. Are you saying we should carry on a running conversation with the CG? Your time would be better spent getting him out of the water don't you think. The CG does not need to know your exact position to get started toward you, just a general situation and a general location. They have to prep the boat and get out of the harbor etc first before going on a search for you. There will be opportunities to "get back on the VHF" as the situation develops and anybody monitoring 16 and nearby will be able to tell what you are doing just from the boat turning around and your activities on deck.BTW what would be a good signal to a nearby vessel that you are the guy that just made the MOB call? I don't think there is a MOB signal. I guess I'd use the orange flag but that would take time too. I should put that sucker in one of the cockpit locker lids for quick and easy access.

 

[Benny]

Not a pretty scenario!

I just came of a tack and I'm back to speed so stopping the boat or getting and throwing a flotation device are not options. I would keep an eye on him, initiate a sharp turn to leeward and start the engine and engage. I'm now headed down wind, center the boom, drop main halyard and and make a pass near his position and throw the horshoe sling. If caught shift to reverse and release genoasheet to slow boat down. Lower the transom ladder and reel him in. If he is floating unconscious I would stop the boat close to his position, don a life jacket and swim the horshoe sling out to him. Once secured pull both of us back to the boat. If he is exausted or unconscious I would would make a harness out of the sling line and attach the voom-bang to him and the stern rail to get him up. If unconsious perform CPR. Depending on the injuries at this point I would contact coast guard and head for the closest port.

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

Reach, Thow, Go

The old lifesaving litany, reach, throw, go is based on what works and is least likely to turn the rescuer into the second victim. Therefore, unless I've got several other crew on board and no other choices, I'm staying on the boat.  Looking at the scenario, 5' waves mean it will be difficult to keep the mob in sight. Therefore, immediatly point upwind and start throwing ;PFD, type IV's etc overboard. The mob may be able to use them and they will help you in keeping him in sight. Additionally, I keep a 65' rescue rope (soft floating line in a nylon bag with a styrofoam float inside and a rope loop on its end) on board. I would try to throw it to the mob. As noted in other posts, try to lay the rope over and past the mob so he can grab it as it pulls past him. A side note, I showed my kids, and their friends at the marina, how to rescue each other with the rescue rope and by heaving a coiled line. They had a lot of fun and learned a few things. If the mob can grap the rope, heave to and bring him in close. Otherwise try circling him like waterskiers do to bring the rope to him. Then pull him in close to the boat.  If he is unable to assist in his rescue, it will be necessary to circle around to a point just upwind and let the boat drift down to him, making sure you don't drift over him.  Once he is close in, it depends on his condition. Talk to him and find out. Certainly you want to provide floation and tether him to the boat. If he can climb a boat ladder, great. Otherwise it depends on how the boat is equiped to hoist him out with a halyard or using the main sheet hanging off the boom.  Once he is out of the water, I would treat for hypothermia and shock. Get him out of the wet clothes and into dry clothing/blankets if possible. Have him lie down. Try to determine if he was injured, and treat appropriately. I would not try to administer hot liquids because of the 5' waves. Head for port. If you can, get someone else on board from another boat to help with boat handling and caring for the mob. Plan for a good case of the shakes after you get to shore.Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[NYC]

Here is what I do

I only hope I can remember it when the time comes.1. Head into the wind and hit the MOB buttom on the sails.2. Attemp to reach my friend with a line.3. If I can, I get him the line sling ASAP!4. If I can't, I drop sails and motor to him. (I hope the crew know how to do this)5. After he has the life sling I pull him to the trasom.6. I drop the boarding ladder and help him up. If the boat didn't have a walk through trasom he might have to be hauled out. Who would buy a boat without a walk through trasom? Not me!

 

[mortyd]

what would

bill, did i say something about waiting for the coast guard? a nearby fast power boat might be just the answer while you are using your well-practiced man overboard drill, among other things. how can it hurt to communicate, ever?

 

[Tom Monroe]

The guy's in real trouble ...

Whatever your mind thought in the 5 seconds after you read the original question is what you're going to do, which is not necessarily what you've been taught or trained to do. My mind said THROW SOMETHING, THEN STOP THE BOAT, FAST. Maybe not the right first thing to do, but that's where my mind went.If I can see the guy ... a big IF by the way ... I can go from there.What I think is that the guy's in real trouble. In real life, his chances of even being seen aren't real good. Getting him back on board by myself aren't much better. (BTW, I can't think of a single boat I've ever been on that had a 200' poly line in a location I could get at w/o taking my eyes off the guy in the water.)Tom MonroeCarlyle Lake

 

[Tom Altland]

Cap'n Remo

I am a single hander with a boat equipped with the Cap'n Remo wireless tiller controller. If I found myself OB I would surface, hold my transmitter in the air and click twice. My boat will head into the wind. When straight click twice in the opposite direction. Meanwhile I would try to swim downwind and attempt to steer my boat in reverse once the boat made sternway. There might be some clanging and banging of sheets and sails; might even lose some - but its a whole lot better than losing me.

 

[Bill Roosa]

I guess that is my point mortyd

A nearby boat will come to your aid if you give a call to the CG and then get busy. I know I am always watching the other boats and monitoring 16. I just don't see myself walking around trying to talk to somebody when he will either come over and help cause he is a good sailor or he is "just out power boating' probably drunk and I really don't want his help. I guess I just don't see the urgency of doing a lot of talking on the VHF when there are life threatening things going on in the water. Talking will not save the guy. He is already dead or I and possibly some nearby boats will rescue him. The CG, IMO, only picks up the dead. It is up to us out on the water to make sure they don't have much to do.Perhaps you could give us your solution and we could understand.As to you question "how can it hurt to communicate" I can site lots of situations where folks thought talking on the radio would save them and their team. Sometimes the artillery would help but most times they where just being a drag on the team as the guy on the radio was the leader and not making decisions but waiting for somebody else to make them from the other end of the radio. I guess that is my concern. If you put a radio in most folks hands and the CG answers them they don't want to put the thing down because "the CG can tell me what to do now" feeling is overpowering. I've seen it just bring things to a stop while the pore saps trying to survive take it on the chin. It is not a solution it is a tool to reach a solution. Like all good tools it has to be used wisely and not abused.

 

[tweitz]

Throwing rope

Not sure if I would have the presence of mind (or the Admiral would if I was in the water) but in addition to the other paraphenalia (floating cushions, horseshoe, Life Sling) I keep a throw rope clipped to a stanchion base in the cockpit, so no one ever has to search for it in emergency.

 

[Captain Black]

Saving Joe

I would immediately attempt to identify my mate and throw him a flotation device. Tack while keeping and eye out for my mate. Prepare a life bouy with a line attached and with the other end attached to the boat. Upon passing my mate, I would throw the line and repeat these steps until he has secured the line and pull him aboard.