What qualifies as “advanced”; when rating sailing ability?

[DrJudyB]

Well, that’s not the title of the thread, which simply reads: “What qualifies as “advanced“ when...”. I’ve already confirmed more than once, even to you, before now, that it is a hypothetical setting; a framework for discussion, and so forth; even perhaps a “context” as you say; including confirming that the underlying question itself is likely not resolvable (See post #50). Also, if there were such a cruise, its likely nature & composition. I’ve also pointed out, previously, that the questions to which you refer and criticize are derived as a response to rgranger‘s proposed set of questions (See post #28). So, we’re not gaining much ground here with these new, frankly somewhat acerbic, remarks.

I thought I was making valid contributions to the thread. Not trying to be a sourpuss.

 

[Kings Gambit]

I thought I was making valid contributions to the thread.

I regret the word acerbic, and have removed it.
KG

 

[Michael Davis]

suggest for definition clarification we should add: the advanced sailor should be able to turn off 100% of all the electronics on the boat and be able to continue their sail easily and happily. while electronics are nice tools/toys, the advanced sailor does not need any of them. the sailor and their vessel can do fine without out them

All my early cruising was before even VHF. No battery in the boat. Hung a lantern for a anchor light.

 

[jon hansen]

me too

 

[jon hansen]

the 'US one' was low slung, the cockpit was not self bailing, no electric pump, hand centrifugal pump in in bilge with discharge on deck, am radio, never used it, no reef points, just hang on, hollow wood mast and boom, egyptian cotton sails, mohogany on oak ribs, ........

side note: aeolus has a lead line on the ready and the old RDF is on station


OK, back to definition of 'advanced' sailor skills

 

[Davidasailor26]

i suggest for definition clarification we should add: the advanced sailor should be able to turn off 100% of all the electronics on the boat and be able to continue their sail easily and happily. while electronics are nice tools/toys, the advanced sailor does not need any of them. the sailor and their vessel can do fine without out them.

weather, vessel handling, navigation, food prep, crew happiness, ..... you know, everything on the voyage can be done without electricity.

i was trained, yes, specifically told, "he who trusts their life to electricity is a fool". now to be fair, that was 55 years ago.


what say you?

I think the ability to sail happily without electronics could earn placement an elevated category, but I disagree that being in that category should be prerequisite for the type of passage KG asked about. At the very least I would strike “easily and happily” from your proposed definition. If a sailor is capable of completing such a passage without electronics, but would need to work harder to do it and wouldn’t enjoy it, I’d say they’re still adequately qualified to make the trip.

 

[Kings Gambit]

There are potentially many types of challenges for navigation after losing electronics, some stress producing. Are we in sight of land (= coastal piloting)? Is it day or night? If night, is there sufficient ambient light (moon) for piloting? Is there a DR plot? Versus beyond sight of land, cloudy skies and dark of moon if at night. No coastal piloting. No DR plot, etc. I certainly would not “be happy” in the latter, especially if the depth finder goes out too. But in either event, sailing in a fleet, in sight of one’s companion boats, etc., loss of e-navigation should not perturb an “advanced” sailor, IMO.

 

[jon hansen]

dead reckoning skills, and all that that implies. these are basic skills that should be in the masters mind at all times, with or without the electronic aids.

 

[jssailem]

old RDF

Tubes or digital?

 

[jon hansen]

the 'homer' receiver was the first first transistorized rdf receiver, by b&g.
aeolus came with the new b&g speedo and depthsounder. read to 30''
same package that gypsy moth IV used. very high tech for the day

 

[jssailem]

Yes, transistorized, it would have been state of the art in the late 60's early 70's.

 

[jon hansen]

LOL! well, that is what sailors are most noted for. at least we are getting that right.
'keeping up tradition while playing with our toys!'

 

[DrJudyB]

that isn’t what jackdaw wrote. KG materially misquoted him in order to weaken @Jackdaw ’s point, and then argued with the misquote. That’s misleading.

 

[Kings Gambit]

JudyB,
You’re correct. An omission. How about this? Note the indication (...) of omitted intervening material. Now, no longer technically a “misquote.”

 

[DrJudyB]

JudyB,
You’re correct. An omission. How about this? Note the indication (...) of omitted material. Now no longer technically a “misquote.”

That doesn’t fix it.
It’s no longer technically a misquote but it’s still a misrepresentation of what he said. You gutted his argument.

[i edited this 5 minutes after first I wrote it]

 

[Kings Gambit]

Yeah, well then, I don’t think that point was lost in the quote. Maybe you know then to what “Typical SBO” refers?

 

[Brian D]

Everyone be nice. If you've nothing to "add", then just move along.