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What line to use as snubber pendant?

jhguth

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Aug 21, 2021
12
Beneteau Oceanis 35 Sausalito
I want to attach a Mantus bridle snubber to my anchor rode line, which is 5/8" 3-strand nylon, using a rolling hitch or camel hitch. What kind of line would anyone recommend for the pendant to hitch to the 5/8" 3-strand rode? I understand a smaller line is best for the hitch, but then the pendant would become the weakest link in my rode. Would 5/8" 3-strand work best? Or 8-plait, which is softer? Something else?
Advice very welcome.
 
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jhguth

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Aug 21, 2021
12
Beneteau Oceanis 35 Sausalito
Thanks SailSFBay - and I'm also in the Bay Area. Yes, I have seen these, and bought one. I found the new version they have to be very stiff and difficult, even with substantial efforts to work it, to attach to a line. Mantus has added chafe guard to the entire pendant, and that makes it quite stiff. I think it work fine on chain but it is very stiff to get a tight Prusik knot going. Just my experience.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
4,529
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I want to attach a Mantus bridle snubber to my anchor rode line, which is 5/8" 3-strand nylon, using a rolling hitch or camel hitch. What kind of line would anyone recommend for as the pendant to hitch to the 5/8" 3-strand rode? I understand a smaller line is best for the hitch, but that then the pendant would become the weakest link in my rode. Would 5/8" 3-strand work best? Or 8-plait, which is softer? Something else?
Advice very welcome.
Use 9/16” 3-strand nylon to go smaller (maybe even 1/2”). More likely, your anchor would pull free before that snubber would part. So, anchor size, anchor type, and anchor setting are typically the real “weak links” overall in one’s ground tackle. Besides, your rode would still be connected to the boat if the snubber did part, etc. If long-term anchoring, slack the rode aft of the hitch enough to it stop off to a bow cleat (to protect the windlass).
 
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jhguth

.
Aug 21, 2021
12
Beneteau Oceanis 35 Sausalito
Use 9/16” 3-strand nylon to go smaller. More likely, your anchor would pull free before that snubber would part. So, anchor size, anchor type, and anchor setting is typically the real “weak link” overall in one’s ground tackle.. Besides, your rode would still be connected to the boat if the snubber did part, etc.
Thanks so much for the advice. Just to confirm, even a slightly a smaller 9/16" pendant (vs the 5/8" line being hitched to) makes the hitch tighter than it would be if 5/8" were used for the pendant? And you are saying, as I understand you, that the stronger hitch is worth the tradeoff of weaker pendant line because the real weak link is the anchor setting.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,529
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Thanks so much for the advice. Just to confirm, even a slightly a smaller 9/16" pendant (vs the 5/8" line being hitched to) makes the hitch tighter than it would be if 5/8" were used for the pendant? And you are saying, as I understand you, that the stronger hitch is worth the tradeoff of weaker pendant line because the real weak link is the anchor setting.
Yes. If the hitch does not tighten it’s of no use. Remember, nylon will stretch. As it does so, the diameter along the section that’s stretching will lessen. So the hitch has to be tight enough to hold its grip on an even smaller diameter rode than when first attached. Also, see my edited post above about slacking the anchor rode behind the hitch.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
4,529
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I use a 5/8” nylon snubber on my 5/16” chain that attaches with a chain hook. The chain is backed with 9/16” nylon 3-strand. When the chain is all out (a rarity) I’m hanging on the nylon. To snub that (to protect the windlass) I go to 1/2” nylon, or less. I sometimes slack the rode behind the hitch to attach the rode (i.e., a section now between the hitch and the windlass) to a bow cleat to back up the snubber in case something serious arises where it (snubber) might let go etc.
 
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jhguth

.
Aug 21, 2021
12
Beneteau Oceanis 35 Sausalito
I use a 5/8” nylon snubber on my 5/16” chain that attaches with a chain hook. The chain is backed with 9/16” nylon 3-strand. When the chain is all out (a rarity) I’m hanging on the nylon. To snub that (to protect the windlass) I go to 1/2” nylon, or less. I sometimes slack the rode behind the hitch to attach the rode (i.e., a section now between the hitch and the windlass) to a bow cleat to back up the snubber in case something serious arises where it (snubber) might let go etc.
This seems like super great advice - thanks so much. My 3/8" chain is backed with 5/8" nylon 3-strand (as required by the windlass). I usually have my snubber bridle attached to the chain with a Mantus hook (which has a security strap). But I need to be prepared to hang on the nylon if necessary. I love the idea of slacking the nylon rode behind the hitch and attaching the nylon rode to a bow cleat as backup. This makes me feel much more secure in using a smaller pendant to attach the snubber to the 5/8" nylon 3-strand.

So....either 9/16" or even 1/2" for the pendant. Sounds like you would suggest that if I do the backup, a 1/2" pendant might be best in the interest of ensuring a tight hitch. This might especially be good because I'm thinking a camel hitch looks more secure than a rolling hitch -- it's a bit more difficult to tie but that might be easier with the smaller, 1/2" pendant.

And also, to confirm, the pendant should also be 3-strand nylon?
 
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Jan 11, 2014
7,735
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
How much chain do you have? There is no need for a snubber if you have relatively short chain and a long nylon rode. The purpose of the snubber is to take up shock loads from an all chain rode. With a primarily nylon rode, the rode will take up the shock loads, so no need for a snubber.

We use an all chain rode and a ½" 3 strand nylon line.
 

jhguth

.
Aug 21, 2021
12
Beneteau Oceanis 35 Sausalito
How much chain do you have? There is no need for a snubber if you have relatively short chain and a long nylon rode. The purpose of the snubber is to take up shock loads from an all chain rode. With a primarily nylon rode, the rode will take up the shock loads, so no need for a snubber.

We use an all chain rode and a ½" 3 strand nylon line.
I have 200 feet of chain and 150 of nylon 3-strand. The chain has always been enough....so far. But I do want to be prepared to use the nylon 3-strand if I need to. You are right that I might be able to just use it directly, but a benefit of using the bridle is distributing the load to both bow cleats --- if I can hitch it effectively to the nylon rode.

One question -- if you have an all chain rode, and I take it you are using the 1/2" 3 strand nylon as a snubber -- what size chain do you have? And I take it you are using the (smaller) 1/2" nylon so as to make an effective hitch?
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,735
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
One question -- if you have an all chain rode, and I take it you are using the 1/2" 3 strand nylon as a snubber -- what size chain do you have? And I take it you are using the (smaller) 1/2" nylon so as to make an effective hitch?
We have 5/16" chain. The snubber is ½" nylon attached to the chain with a copy of the Mantus Snubber Pendant. I used ¼" dyneema for the pendant. The one change I am considering is using some kind of spring shackle or carabiner instead of the D shackle, that will make it slightly easier to use.

IMG_0328.jpeg
 

jhguth

.
Aug 21, 2021
12
Beneteau Oceanis 35 Sausalito
We have 5/16" chain. The snubber is ½" nylon attached to the chain with a copy of the Mantus Snubber Pendant. I used ¼" dyneema for the pendant. The one change I am considering is using some kind of spring shackle or carabiner instead of the D shackle, that will make it slightly easier to use.

View attachment 197454
Super interesting, Dave. I just purchased a new Mantus Snubber Pendant, and the new ones are unlike those in their videos, in that they have added chafe-guard to the entire pendant. But this makes it so still that I could not bend it enough to make a Prusik knot, even after working it and soaking it in water. It just was impossible for line, though it might work for chain.

Did you make that copy of the Mantus pendant yourself? Can you give us more details? Also, I'm thinking of attaching the pendant through a spliced thimble and soft shackle to make it easier than a D shackle.

So that's why I'm looking for the right line for a pendant to 5/8 3-strand.
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,735
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I'm not the knot expert, I believe prussik's work best when a smaller line is knotted to a larger line. That's why dyneema is a good choice as you get tremendous strength in a small diameter.

I used ¼" with a dyneema cover that is held in place with heat shrink. It is basically a line with 2 eyes. I've only used it on chain not rope. It works well on chain.

The only challenge to a DIY pendant is getting the line lengths correct. It took me two tries to get it right. The first one was too short, longer is better than shorter.

The area with the splice bury is very stiff. If you were to make your own, make it longer so there is more dyneema that does not have a splice bury in it. ¼" Dyneema should be small enough and supple enough to tie a prussik on ⅝" line.

With 200 ft of chain, you shouldn't have to worry about tying it to the nylon rode unless you anchor in more than 40 feet of water.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,529
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
How much chain do you have? There is no need for a snubber if you have relatively short chain and a long nylon rode. The purpose of the snubber is to take up shock loads from an all chain rode. With a primarily nylon rode, the rode will take up the shock loads, so no need for a snubber.

We use an all chain rode and a ½" 3 strand nylon line.
Dave,
If you do not use a snubber on the nylon rode, the forces of anchoring are directed to the windlass. So a snubber allows one to apply a hitch to “protect” the windlass by slacking the rode behind the hitch. And as long as it is slacked, may as well stop it off at a bow cleat. True. There would not be much, if any, shock-loading to the windlass w/o chain. But without a snubber nothing is holding the rode except the clutch on the windlass, etc.
 
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Jan 11, 2014
7,735
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Dave,
If you do not use a snubber on the nylon rode, the forces of anchoring are directed to the windlass. So a snubber allows one to apply a hitch to “protect” the windlass by slacking the rode behind the hitch. And as long as it is slacked, may as well stop it off at a bow cleat. True. There would not be much, if any, shock-loading to the windlass w/o chain. But without a snubber nothing is holding the rode except the clutch on the windlass.
When I used a rope/chain rode I secured the rope to a bow cleat. No reason not to do that even if you have a windlass.

Second Star has a chain stopper before the windlass that takes up the load until I get the snubber set and will take the strain if the snubber should fail. Also keeps the anchor from falling off the anchor roller.
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,529
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
This seems like super great advice - thanks so much. My 3/8" chain is backed with 5/8" nylon 3-strand (as required by the windlass). I usually have my snubber bridle attached to the chain with a Mantus hook (which has a security strap). But I need to be prepared to hang on the nylon if necessary. I love the idea of slacking the nylon rode behind the hitch and attaching the nylon rode to a bow cleat as backup. This makes me feel much more secure in using a smaller pendant to attach the snubber to the 5/8" nylon 3-strand.

So....either 9/16" or even 1/2" for the pendant. Sounds like you would suggest that if I do the backup, a 1/2" pendant might be best in the interest of ensuring a tight hitch. This might especially be good because I'm thinking a camel hitch looks more secure than a rolling hitch -- it's a bit more difficult to tie but that might be easier with the smaller, 1/2" pendant.

And also, to confirm, the pendant should also be 3-strand nylon?
A 1/2” nylon pendant is probably sufficient;).
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,529
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
When I used a rope/chain rode I secured the rope to a bow cleat. No reason not to do that even if you have a windlass.

Second Star has a chain stopper before the windlass that takes up the load until I get the snubber set and will take the strain if the snubber should fail. Also keeps the anchor from falling off the anchor roller.
If the rode is run out through a windlass on my boat and there is wind, I cannot after the anchor is set physically pull the boat fwd to get enough slack to stop any rode at a cleat. I must apply a snubber to the rode to ease the tension enough to slack it and apply the cleat hitch to stop it. I don’t how anyone could do it on a boat my size w/o a snubber IF a windlass is in line unless the diesel is used. After the rode is stopped off I could remove the snubber, but then I’d probably have to put back on again to remove the rode from the cleat. (But of course, what I’m describing does not involve a helm person with the diesel engaged.)
 
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Jun 14, 2010
1,710
TBD Looking for my next boat CT
Also, I'm thinking of attaching the pendant through a spliced thimble and soft shackle to make it easier than a D shackle.
I too, use a 1/4" Dyneema loop and agree a soft shackle would be preferable to the D-shackle Mantus uses, but a soft shackle still requires two hands to operate. I use a snap hook that can be operated with one hand. See my post Chain snubbers
 
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Jul 12, 2021
1
Beneteau 361 Marco Island
I use my dock lines (one on each bow cleat). I tie each to the chain or rope with rolling hitches then let out enough rode so the tension is on the bow lines, not the winch.