What is the worst Sailing State?
- Thread starter shemandr
- Start date
I actually thought that the 'sailing state' the OP'er asked asked about, was about motion. My first thought was under power, in a seaway,..is the worst.becalmed with an empty cooler.
I always avoid that (and try to have sails up), because if anyone is prone to seasickness, that will bring mal de' mere on fast.
If you read shemandr's opening post, you couldn't possibly draw that conclusion!
My recommendation was to think of the best location in each state and then base a conclusion on the worst of the best. The state that has the worst of the best locations would surely be the worst state for sailing.
I disagree to some extent that the best locations should be heavily weighted towards access or surrounding population. But, I would conclude that access to great sailing from a lousy location could weigh enough to lift the status of a state.
For instance, if you consider that Indiana pretty much doesn't have any great sailing locations, it would still be hard to list Indiana among the worst. Even though the Lake Michigan shoreline in Indiana is pretty much an industrial nightmare, they at least have direct access to great sailing destinations all over Lake Michigan and the Great Lakes. You can even consider that they have access to the entire world on a sailboat. I think that counts for enough. It also has to be considered that there really aren't any limitations to the kinds and sizes of sailboats that can utilize Indiana's sailing facilities. Also consider Delaware, which seems to have barely anything for sailors, yet the state does have direct access to the Atlantic Ocean and Chesapeake Bay (it has to count for enough to elevate the state above the worst).
I'd also suggest that based on sheer scenery and the size of lakes and reservoirs (and enthusiasm of the participants), there are locations in each of the western states and the Great Plains states that could not be considered the worst of the best locations, with the exceptions of Arizona and New Mexico, I suppose.
My nomination for the "worst" state for sailing would have to be either West Virginia or Missouri (West Virginia would have to be it, unless somebody could give me an example of a single place that is ok for sailing and is large enough for cruising sailboats to utilize). I can't even think of a sailing destination that can be accessed from West Virginia except by highway.
I also think it's ironic that the smallest state in the country has the single most revered reputation for yachting. Tiny Rhode Island is an immense giant among the sailing community.
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jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 21,226
@Scott T-Bird your analysis and comparisons of this subject are profound and extremely logical...
But Scott... You are way over thinking this.
Clearly this post is designed to help us all cope with the challenges of being stuck indoors.
And not enjoying our boats.
But Scott... You are way over thinking this.
Clearly this post is designed to help us all cope with the challenges of being stuck indoors.
And not enjoying our boats.
Sadly, people find me wondering off base much of the time.@Scott T-Bird your analysis and comparisons of this subject are profound and extremely logical...
But Scott... You are way over thinking this.
Clearly this post is designed to help us all cope with the challenges of being stuck indoors.
And not enjoying our boats.
Well think about this.
Lake Minnetonka has been feted many times as the best sailing in MN, but I could also make a case that it's the worst. The lake while large is really a series of linked bays that break up the wind and make straight line sailing impossible. It is shallow in many strange places, and the shallow areas have been overrun with the diabolical Eurasian Water Milfoil, which floats away in large mats and fouls keels and rudders. On weekends it is overrun with power-boaters. Oh, now zebra mussels.
Crappy.
But it's 10 minutes from downtown Minneapolis. It's the access that brings in local sailors by the thousands and boats by the hundreds. That makes it great, regardless of its flaws. if it were in the middle of the state, no one would sail there.
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Zebra mussels are plot by water shoe makers to increase sales.
Over here on Lake Ontario we've been dealing with Zebra Mussels for 25 years or so. Initially there was great panic and concern, the world was collapsing, the Nuke plants would overheat, engines would die because of blocked passages, etc. etc. The long term experience has been a bit different. There was an initial boom and population explosion. Waters became clearer, more weeds grew and eventually the population explosion went bust. The mussels are still here, but not as much of a problem, a decent bottom paint keeps them at bay. VC 17 makes it easy to scrape them off.
One unanticipated consequence is that zebra mussels become toxic waste. They are very good at filtering water and taking out the toxins.
Agreed, in this case and many others, the population center probably makes an overwhelming difference. We could name a few other places where the population center coincides with the geographic features that make for the best sailing location ...
Illinois/Chicago, California/San Francisco, Maine/Portland, Vermont/Burlington for instance.
In other states, it may not be so clear. In Wisconsin, do the wonderful sailing locations in Bayfield or Door County over-ride the "Best" title from the population center around Milwaukee, or does one consider Milwaukee the "best" (Buddy might consider Lake Geneva the epitome of Wisconsin sailing)? In New Jersey, does one consider NY Harbor the "best" sailing location simply because of the population? The state is so densely populated that it might not matter where the most sailors congregate, there are a few other locations with their own sizable group of advocates and valid arguments for the "Best" title. Which population center in Florida would dictate the "best" sailing location? Would Seattle claim the "top spot" or do Washingtonians consider outlying areas better? Does Houston claim the Texas top spot or is it somewhere else?
The top spots in other states would have to be based on geographic considerations rather than surrounding population. Flathead Lake in Montana is nowhere near a large population center, and the same could be said for most of the mountain and great plains states.
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Is that considered a good thing or a bad thing, I wonder? I would consider the filtering a good thing even if it makes the mussels themselves toxic. I've heard from folks whom have had their fear about zebra mussels turned around and now say it's an environmental benefit that water clarity is improved. I tend to agree. The arguments can go around in circles.
I believe the overall consensus is we would be better off without the zebra mussels and other invasive/non-native species. Clearer water means that the Eurasian milfoil can grow in deeper waters. Marinas that were once viable are less so because the milfoil growth has made them inaccessible. Milfoil has this really annoying tendency to reroot wherever it lands. Cutting it puts more in the water and the little bits take hold and start new fields of milfoil. Same with water chestnuts, another invasive species.
Before humans started moving things around the world willy-nilly, local environments developed a balanced ecosystem. Not so much anymore.
WV is the worst sailing state! She has a wicked weather helm, won't point worth a darn, makes terrible leeway, is crank, and is darn near impossible to tack.
But none of the others sail very well either.
But none of the others sail very well either.
Dave, are you a self-hating human?
Keep in mind that before humans existed, nature had its own way of moving things around willy-nilly, there was nothing new about invasive species, and a balanced eco-system is a made-up myth created by self-hating humans. Haven't you even heard the theory that the very spark of life on Earth was invasive from space?As the infamous George Carlin said, 'God wanted plastic, He didn't know how to make plastic so He created Man. God needed Man to invent plastic.' For everything there is a purpose, no?
In my well-considered opinion of but a few moments here, it seems the concept of best to worst should be applied by ranking on three criteria--access, close destinations for weekenders, and overall venue quality. So, states with virtually no access to sailing (no suitable waters) also lack destinations and should go to the bottom. As day sailing can be done where ever there is access, that activity in itself would produce a neutral score (i.e., every place would get a "point").
States with only small mountain lakes and reservoirs potentially offer high venue quality but few destinations and limited access over the whole year. Coastal states, including those of the Great Lakes and some that border rivers (e.g., Missouri), have the most overall access and thus, potentially, the most destinations. Venue quality is the variable having the greatest impact on the score.
Northern and eastern coastal states east of the continental divide have less general access than southern ones due to their winters, but can have very high venue quality. Southern states of the GOM and the Atlantic Ocean, and especially Florida's west coast, have year-round access from hundreds of locations, many destinations, and many, many places of high venue quality.
The Pacific coast states offer limited access compared to the southeastern ones due to their rugged coastlines, the exceptions being in the locations of large estuaries; particularly, San Francisco Bay and the areas of Puget Sound/Salish Sea in Washington State. However, there is year-round (i.e., all seasons) access all along the Pacific coast and the venues offered are quite impressive.
For access, destinations, and venue quality--my pick for No. 1 is the Pacific Northwest (Washington); conversely my lowest pick would be land-locked states offering only small mountain lakes or reservoirs, if even that. So WVA would definitely qualify as a low score as would most states of the rocky mountain region and most of the plains states (Kansas, etc.). So if you want to find the very worst, look among those!!
States with only small mountain lakes and reservoirs potentially offer high venue quality but few destinations and limited access over the whole year. Coastal states, including those of the Great Lakes and some that border rivers (e.g., Missouri), have the most overall access and thus, potentially, the most destinations. Venue quality is the variable having the greatest impact on the score.
Northern and eastern coastal states east of the continental divide have less general access than southern ones due to their winters, but can have very high venue quality. Southern states of the GOM and the Atlantic Ocean, and especially Florida's west coast, have year-round access from hundreds of locations, many destinations, and many, many places of high venue quality.
The Pacific coast states offer limited access compared to the southeastern ones due to their rugged coastlines, the exceptions being in the locations of large estuaries; particularly, San Francisco Bay and the areas of Puget Sound/Salish Sea in Washington State. However, there is year-round (i.e., all seasons) access all along the Pacific coast and the venues offered are quite impressive.
For access, destinations, and venue quality--my pick for No. 1 is the Pacific Northwest (Washington); conversely my lowest pick would be land-locked states offering only small mountain lakes or reservoirs, if even that. So WVA would definitely qualify as a low score as would most states of the rocky mountain region and most of the plains states (Kansas, etc.). So if you want to find the very worst, look among those!!
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That might fall under venue quality and/or access (to popular destinations); above post #97.
Just as long as you don't need amenities. No one builds marinas, launch ramps, yacht clubs, waterside restaurants in the absence of customers.