What is IMPORTANT when looking for a used boat/yacht?

[jssailem]

It is a concept. A Buyers Broker. You may find a person. On the other hand what will you do if you find the boat and your agent does not contribute. You would need to write a contract acceptable to both of you.

For the inspection of a Good Boat/ Bad Boat you will want a surveyor. A person skilled in the structural detail of boats. A broker is like a new field player in hockey. He can skate, and he knows which end of the stick to hold, but he is not a goalie. His opinion of what is good is just that an informed one from experience.

 

[dlochner]

Question: Have you ever came across someone paying a BONUS flat fee to the broker in addition to their commission. I was thinking of doing this (once I found a broker I believe I could trust), as I am wanting a broker to provide me the service they would to a higher end client, but specifically for my low end boat purchase (i.e. identifying surveyors and assisting getting insurance and a boat loan, etc.). I understand they share in a 10%~ commission, so theoretically they could make about $1,500 on a $30,000 boat sale. Understandably, they can't spend a lot of time/effort on my specific boat purchase. If I kicked in an additional $2,000 (for example) to be paid half upfront and half at close ( or however ), might this help with their willingness and ableness to go the extra mile. I have no problem with searching and finding the specific boat I need, but once I find it, I need someone to help with everything you have mentioned. Personally, I wouldn't know a good boat from a bad boat (structurally and such). This is where I want someone to go that extra mile and help me with my purchase. What are your thoughts/comments?

This would create a conflict of interest. Is the broker representing you or the seller. It would be possible to hire some one as an agent, someone who can act on your behalf and is not dependent on a sale. This often happens in the world of really high end boats with values well above $500K.

Also, never ask for or accept a broker's recommendation for a surveyor. Find one on your own, ask for references other area boat owners or here on line.

 

[Prairie Virgin Sailor]

A good start! A few suggestions.

First, as @jssailem said, John Harris's site, Attainable Adventure Cruising is excellent. It is a pay site, however at a very modest~$20 a year. Well worth the money.

Next, banish the phrase "bluewater sailboat" from your vocabulary and never mention it to a broker or someone who is knowledgeable about offshore sailing. It is a meaningless term.

Instead of using the phrase that shan't be mentioned, describe it differently. something like "a boat capable of passages of 3-5 days duration and offshore coastal cruising. My plans are to take extended passages along the coast eventually reaching Mexico and perhaps venturing into the Caribbean." Then something along the lines of "I would consider classic cruising boats such as those built by Pacific Seacraft, Crealock, Baba, Hans Christian, Cheoy Lee, Southern Cross or other similar boats."

Now, start doing more specific research on the type of boats you like. Use Yachtworld.com, search broker ads in Cruising World, generally look for the places these boats will be sold. It is likely there are some brokers who specialize in the kinds of boat you are looking for. These are the brokers to contact. Don't bother with the high volume production boat brokers, they are interested in a different market. You are in a rather unique market.

Bear in mind the boats you are interested will be heavy on the teak and associated maintenance and will likely have been sailed hard and put away not too wet. It may be fruitful to expand your search a bit beyond the classic heavy slow cruising boats of yore.

Great response. Thanks so much. Wow, I am so glad I asked for input from the forum. Everyone's responses have been incredibly helpful. Again, thanks so much.

 

[Prairie Virgin Sailor]

Ha, I was thinking the same thing. You may want to phrase it as "looking for comfort and stability over speed".

Here is a list of offshore cruising boats I pulled down years ago and added a few along the way. I haven't touched this list since 2009 so it is likely outdated as are some of the boats, but considering your budget you are going to be looking at boats in this vintage anyway. It's a full 8 pages, lots to look through but if you have a few hours (or days) to kill you might want to pop some of these boats into SailboatData.com - the worlds largest sailboat database and Yachts for Sale - YachtWorld to see if there are any you like the look of and could be in your price range.

Excellent attachment!! Thanks

 

[Kings Gambit]

It is a concept. A Buyers Broker. You may find a person. On the other hand what will you do if you find the boat and your agent does not contribute. You would need to write a contract acceptable to both of you.

For the inspection of a Good Boat/ Bad Boat you will want a surveyor. A person skilled in the structural detail of boats. A broker is like a new field player in hockey. He can skate, and he knows which end of the stick to hold, but he is not a goalie. His opinion of what is good is just that an informed one from experience.

My concept of a buyer’s broker is one who is assisting you with the negotiations re:the seller; that is, working to your advantage and benefit rather than directly to the seller’s. It’s kind of rare, but a seller’s broker and a buyer’s broker might be different individuals of the same brokerage business where the boat is listed. It could be “delicate.” One would probably have to be an experienced buyer and boater in the right market to see it work. This set-up would of course would be in direct preparation to make an offer, and then subsequently, etc., to conclusion. Just remember, the brokerage makes nothing if no sale occurs. If an overpriced boat has been sitting for a while you might get another broker to work on the purchase of it on your behalf.

 

[jeepbluetj]

I haven't seen it above, but in your price range the brokers aren't going to be all that interested anyway. They'll show you a boat or three, but that's going to be about it.

Plop your price range and search location into Yachtworld, look at the listings, find a boat. Also look at this site, craigslist, the local boat rags (like Latitude 48) etc... The broker isn't going to help you do this. They're going to put the listing on Yachtworld for you to find.

You are indeed looking for quite the unicorn. Things like solar will be mostly up to you. Nobody should ever own a sailboat unless they're amazingly wealthy or willing to turn some wrenches.

 

[Tally Ho]

Question: Have you ever came across someone paying a BONUS flat fee to the broker in addition to their commission. I was thinking of doing this (once I found a broker I believe I could trust), as I am wanting a broker to provide me the service they would to a higher end client, but specifically for my low end boat purchase (i.e. identifying surveyors and assisting getting insurance and a boat loan, etc.). I understand they share in a 10%~ commission, so theoretically they could make about $1,500 on a $30,000 boat sale. Understandably, they can't spend a lot of time/effort on my specific boat purchase. If I kicked in an additional $2,000 (for example) to be paid half upfront and half at close ( or however ), might this help with their willingness and ableness to go the extra mile. I have no problem with searching and finding the specific boat I need, but once I find it, I need someone to help with everything you have mentioned. Personally, I wouldn't know a good boat from a bad boat (structurally and such). This is where I want someone to go that extra mile and help me with my purchase. What are your thoughts/comments?

You need someone other than the sellers broker…they will (and should) represent the seller). You need someone to do your legwork first, and help with the purchase second.

How much is the bonus? I have bought A couple of boats…One from a sellers broker, one with no broker, and I sold one, no broker involved. I am SURE I can find you the boat of your dreams…


Greg

 

[dlochner]

You need someone other than the sellers broker…they will (and should) represent the seller). You need someone to do your legwork first, and help with the purchase second.

How much is the bonus? I have bought A couple of boats…One from a sellers broker, one with no broker, and I sold one, no broker involved. I am SURE I can find you the boat of your dreams…


Greg

I'm in at $100 an hour plus expenses.

 

[Tally Ho]

I'm in at $100 an hour plus expenses.

Wait, I wanted that gig!

 

[Prairie Virgin Sailor]

You need someone other than the sellers broker…they will (and should) represent the seller). You need someone to do your legwork first, and help with the purchase second.

How much is the bonus? I have bought A couple of boats…One from a sellers broker, one with no broker, and I sold one, no broker involved. I am SURE I can find you the boat of your dreams…


Greg

Ha ha That is something I would indeed entertain, however I see you are US based. I likely do not want to buy a US boat, pay the 12% import taxes etc and the paperwork and headaches to get it up here. Based on my budget, can't see that kind of headache worth while.

 

[Tally Ho]

Ha ha That is something I would indeed entertain, however I see you are US based. I likely do not want to buy a US boat, pay the 12% import taxes etc and the paperwork and headaches to get it up here. Based on my budget, can't see that kind of headache worth while.

My wife is Canadian…does that get me a second look?

Uncle in New Brunswick….got to be some boats over on the east coast!

Greg

 

[dlochner]

Ha ha That is something I would indeed entertain, however I see you are US based. I likely do not want to buy a US boat, pay the 12% import taxes etc and the paperwork and headaches to get it up here. Based on my budget, can't see that kind of headache worth while.

This is why you use a broker, they help with all the paper work processing.

While you may find the boat you want in Canada, the selection will likely be larger in the US.

 

[Tally Ho]

@Prairie Virgin Sailor ,

No electric motor, but she does have a new(er) Yanmar diesel, and she was built to handle the North Sea.

Looks perfect for living aboard!

Fiskars Finnsailer 35 boats for sale - YachtWorld

Find Fiskars Finnsailer 35 boats for sale in your area & across the world on YachtWorld. Offering the best selection of Fiskars boats to choose from.

www.yachtworld.com

Let me know when you need my direct deposit info

Greg

 

[DArcy]

Ha ha That is something I would indeed entertain, however I see you are US based. I likely do not want to buy a US boat, pay the 12% import taxes etc and the paperwork and headaches to get it up here. Based on my budget, can't see that kind of headache worth while.

NAFTA is back! The Donald took away free trade for a while but it is back so if you find a US, Canada or Mexican made boat you like in the US you won't need to pay duty to import it into Canada. The US market is bigger so don't rule it out, although in the Pacific NW Vancouver/Victoria area is a fairly big market.

Another thought on your boat selection. You seem to want a more comfortable boat so look at the Sailboat Calculations section in Sailboatdata.com A few things to note:

• S.A./Disp. is Sail Area to Displacement ratio and gives you an idea of how much "sailpower" a boat has. Below 15 and you will likely be motoring most of the time, above 20 and you won't be using the motor much at all
• Ball./Disp. is the Ballast to Displacement ratio and gives an idea of how "stiff" a boat is, or how well it stands up in a breeze. Higher is stiffer
• Disp./Len. is an indication of how heavy a boat is relative to other boats the same size
• Comfort Ratio is a somewhat fanciful number made up to compare the motion of different boats in a seaway. Lower is more rock and rolly, higher is more sedate and comfortable. Boats in the low 20s or below will tend to move around more than a boat in the high 30s or above
• Capsize Screening Formula gives an idea of how likely a boat is to capsize, the rule of thumb is cruising boats should be below 2

 

[Prairie Virgin Sailor]

NAFTA is back! The Donald took away free trade for a while but it is back so if you find a US, Canada or Mexican made boat you like in the US you won't need to pay duty to import it into Canada. The US market is bigger so don't rule it out, although in the Pacific NW Vancouver/Victoria area is a fairly big market.

Another thought on your boat selection. You seem to want a more comfortable boat so look at the Sailboat Calculations section in Sailboatdata.com A few things to note:

• S.A./Disp. is Sail Area to Displacement ratio and gives you an idea of how much "sailpower" a boat has. Below 15 and you will likely be motoring most of the time, above 20 and you won't be using the motor much at all
• Ball./Disp. is the Ballast to Displacement ratio and gives an idea of how "stiff" a boat is, or how well it stands up in a breeze. Higher is stiffer
• Disp./Len. is an indication of how heavy a boat is relative to other boats the same size
• Comfort Ratio is a somewhat fanciful number made up to compare the motion of different boats in a seaway. Lower is more rock and rolly, higher is more sedate and comfortable. Boats in the low 20s or below will tend to move around more than a boat in the high 30s or above
• Capsize Screening Formula gives an idea of how likely a boat is to capsize, the rule of thumb is cruising boats should be below 2

Excellent information! Thanks so much.

 

[Will Gilmore]

@Prairie Virgin Sailor ,

No electric motor, but she does have a new(er) Yanmar diesel, and she was built to handle the North Sea.

Looks perfect for living aboard!

Fiskars Finnsailer 35 boats for sale - YachtWorld

Find Fiskars Finnsailer 35 boats for sale in your area & across the world on YachtWorld. Offering the best selection of Fiskars boats to choose from.

www.yachtworld.com

Let me know when you need my direct deposit info

Greg

That's a comfortable looking boat.

Uncle in New Brunswick….got to be some boats over on the east coast!

Indeed. Montreal has quite a few nice looking world sailors passing through her port and Nova Scotia has a very active sailing community.

-Will

 

[Prairie Virgin Sailor]

NAFTA is back! The Donald took away free trade for a while but it is back so if you find a US, Canada or Mexican made boat you like in the US you won't need to pay duty to import it into Canada. The US market is bigger so don't rule it out, although in the Pacific NW Vancouver/Victoria area is a fairly big market.

Another thought on your boat selection. You seem to want a more comfortable boat so look at the Sailboat Calculations section in Sailboatdata.com A few things to note:

• S.A./Disp. is Sail Area to Displacement ratio and gives you an idea of how much "sailpower" a boat has. Below 15 and you will likely be motoring most of the time, above 20 and you won't be using the motor much at all
• Ball./Disp. is the Ballast to Displacement ratio and gives an idea of how "stiff" a boat is, or how well it stands up in a breeze. Higher is stiffer
• Disp./Len. is an indication of how heavy a boat is relative to other boats the same size
• Comfort Ratio is a somewhat fanciful number made up to compare the motion of different boats in a seaway. Lower is more rock and rolly, higher is more sedate and comfortable. Boats in the low 20s or below will tend to move around more than a boat in the high 30s or above
• Capsize Screening Formula gives an idea of how likely a boat is to capsize, the rule of thumb is cruising boats should be below 2

Regarding Ball/Disp - I am currently looking at a boat that has (displacement 6,350 kg) and (ballast 1,814 kg). In this example, what would be the ball/disp ratio? 3.5 or .28 ???

 

[jssailem]

28....
Bal./Disp = ballast (lbs)/ displacement (lbs)*100

Bal./Disp.:
A Ballast/Displacement ratio of 40 or more translates into a stiffer, more powerful boat that will be better able to stand up to the wind.

 

[DArcy]

Regarding Ball/Disp - I am currently looking at a boat that has (displacement 6,350 kg) and (ballast 1,814 kg). In this example, what would be the ball/disp ratio? 3.5 or .28 ???

Each of the calculations is defined in the Definitions link to the top right of the table. As John said, Bal./Disp = ballast (lbs)/ displacement (lbs)*100 . Units are important for most of these calculations although this one could be in kg since the units cancel out.

 

[jssailem]

since the units cancel out.

Don’t you just love the simplicity of math.