What do people think about the Tatoo 26 Trailer?

[Cruiser1]

From other thread - to save confusion:

Good question. IDK.

It seems that the new Tattoo trailers don't come with brakes, but an "upgrade" trailer package is available, and would be required by CA law, as they're >3k lbs.

They describe their stock trailer as a "yard dolly or shipping cradle"

http://www.macgregorsailboats.com/macgregor_26_aluminum_trailer.html

Marketing...like father like daughter?

When they say "The standard model will be useful as a yard dolly or as a shipping cradle," I am not sure if they mean the 'standard model' trailer is like the old M26 classic trailer (ie. all steel) or an aluminium trailer with steel tow bar and head stock - minus trailer brakes? ie. perhaps the 'Delux Package' is the only one with an aluminium trailer.

I any event what do people think of this aluminium trailer for use with the M26?

Seems to me it is relatively simple to construct and would save some weight. They seem very convinced the torsion bar suspension is the way to go these days - seems it would also sit the boat down lower than the old leaf spring suspension.

I have been thinking about eventually building a new trailer for my 26S and perhaps this is the way to go.

 

[walt]

I don’t know about the Tattoo trailers and the new boats..

On the old 26S, the brochure sells the light weight of the rig "lowest trailering weight: 2200 pounds including trailer" "a trailering package that is lighter than most small power boats" etc..

If you use the boat this way it was originally marketed, i.e., it is a light weight setup, the original trailer does fine.

But over the years, the boat changes hands a few times and the boat will have gained a bunch of weight or gets towed with a bunch of supplies on the boat. For example, you are taking the boat for a week long trip somewhere and you load all the supplies in the boat before you go.

Likely in the heavy loaded case - maybe you added a 1000 pounds to the original 2200 pounds - that original trailer might be stressed too much and may need at the minimum an extra axle.

The newer Macs and Tattoo are heavier than the old 26 classics and I have never seen the stock trailers.. but on the 26 classics, my opinion is that the trailer being adequate depends on how you want to use it. Works fine for even long distance if you keep everything lighter and don’t load it with supplies for a trip.

If you want to use that setup for also carrying supplies and the boat is a little heavier - outfitted with RV luxuries, you might want to consider a beefier trailer.

Im just using the old trailer and when I take a big trip this fall, I will have to either buy supplies when I get there or carry them in the truck (probably still somewhat limited). If I had a better trailer, I could just load everything up before I left. Another trade off.. and of course just my opinion..

 

[lee ward]

The axle is right at the top of its rating when carrying the M. The frame itself is strong, but it to flexes quite a bit under load too. The bunks are transverse on the trailer too. There are two of them that carry most of the weight of the boat, and the hull is reinforced with extra glass at these points. I don't like this arrangement, and I'm not sure it would work for your boat. It wouldn't be hard to add proper bunks though, I think. I tow long distances with mine, and have had no issues so far. If you could find one cheap, I wouldn't hesitate. If you are buying it new, I might save my money and put it toward a more substantial trailer. JMO, good luck.

 

[Meriachee]

We traveled literally thousands of miles with our 26c. It was our camper and travel trailer and boat. I know of one other fellow up here who did exactly the same thing, and other than the side rails, and building a motor mount bracket off the side of the steps, neither of us did much in the way of modifications to the trailer. It's up to the task, but these days I would consider a second axle.

 

[MACGREGORSAILOR]

Upgraded the axel and tires on my 26D to 5k several years back and never regretted it. Driven thousands of miles using it as a camper on the trailer. Been as far north as James bay and as far south as Florida. Watch for weld cracks on the frame and have them re-enforsed if they show up.

 

[finding41]

On the Mac 26D,S,C model it is very important to keep the bunks in the same place as the original trailer! Very important! The support that holds our boats is ware the top of the water ballast and the hull meet. That's it! There is one other support/ baffle inside the tank but it is nowhere near the V shaped trailer supports. (It's between the DB and the water fill hole. I think it is more of a water baffle than a real support. Judging by the way it is glassed in... It's just kind of stuck in!
Here are some pictures of the inside of the ballast of a 26D. Note the only extra support is on the top of the ballast tank... For the floor!
The baffle thing I mentioned was removed. That is it.
The 3rd from last picture is what happens when you put your boat on a trailer that the bunks go the length of the boat... (It opens up a great way to get a look into the ballast tank.)
It also dramatically lowers resale value!

I've mentioned that I think the boat is integral to the structure of the factory Mac 26D,S,C trailer. I think that may still be the case with the X and M models too.
It is a great idea to upgrade things like the axle, springs and add breaks! Always look for cracks when you are around the trailer. (The X or M trailers had a thing with the tongue rusting... But that can be true for any trailer.) It's just a good idea to always look your trailer over when you are near it. Boat off or on.
The red trailer is a trailer I modified to hold a Mac 26D. The front bunks are set the same as the factory trailer and the back rollers (Yes it came with rollers and I used them... Properly!) are set so the inner rollers are along the seam ware the ballast tank and the hull meet. The rollers down the middle are just for looks. They don't support the boat in any way.

 

[justsomeguy]

From other thread - to save confusion:



When they say "The standard model will be useful as a yard dolly or as a shipping cradle," I am not sure if they mean the 'standard model' trailer is like the old M26 classic trailer (ie. all steel) or an aluminium trailer with steel tow bar and head stock - minus trailer brakes? ie. perhaps the 'Delux Package' is the only one with an aluminium trailer.

I any event what do people think of this aluminium trailer for use with the M26?

Seems to me it is relatively simple to construct and would save some weight. They seem very convinced the torsion bar suspension is the way to go these days - seems it would also sit the boat down lower than the old leaf spring suspension.

I have been thinking about eventually building a new trailer for my 26S and perhaps this is the way to go.

Without looking at the trailer made for the Tattoo 26, I agree with Martin.

If you're going to build your own, copy the original, then embellish as you wish.

 

[walt]

Wow.. how did that boat get busted up?

Interesting about those internal stiffening structures and being aligned with the trailer bunks (if I understood correctly)....

edit.. I read that closer, the "baffle" is not at all aligned with the bunks..

 

[Doc_holiday]

I could see that happening easily on a 26S or D if someone used rollers as primary support with no bunks

 

[finding41]

Wow.. how did that boat get busted up?

Interesting about those internal stiffening structures and being aligned with the trailer bunks (if I understood correctly)....

edit.. I read that closer, the "baffle" is not at all aligned with the bunks..

No the baffle isn't aligned with anything... That's what makes me think it's just a baffle.
I don't think the floor stiffing things are aligned with the bunks. I didn't measure though.

Walt; I don't know allot about the boat. I know it was salvaged then abandoned and taken for nonpayment.
(I think it got away and got up on a rocky beach. That would explain the deep scratches, sand inside the ballast and the wear of the fiberglass on the bottom.
I also think that the place that salvaged it put the hole in the bottom when they put it on that trailer.)
I know the bunks on the tiny trailer were too close and they just pushed through the bottom.

 

[finding41]

I could see that happening easily on a 26S or D if someone used rollers as primary support with no bunks

I think that goes of the Mac 25 as well.
I looked at a couple 25's years back and found stress marks inside the hull ware the bunks should have gone... One 25 even had the V set up like the 26's. The marks were more prominent in that one.

 

[Cruiser1]

I don’t know about the Tattoo trailers and the new boats..

On the old 26S, the brochure sells the light weight of the rig "lowest trailering weight: 2200 pounds including trailer" "a trailering package that is lighter than most small power boats" etc..[/FONT][/COLOR]

Yes, always difficult to know how the advertised weights of trailer sailors was calculated. I find the 2,000 lbs to be a bit 'under believable' so to speak.

On the stock Macgregor braked trailer my 26S weighed in at 2,778 lbs - the following usual gear was not on board for the weight in:
rudder blade, motor, water containers & water, 2 fuel cans, 2 anchors, ropes and chains - say 352lbs all up. The weight did include trailer, mast, boom, standing and running rigging, 3 sails, bunk cushions, tiller stanchions, life lines, pushpit, pulpit, porta-potti + plus some other rather not so significant bits and pieces.

It seems to me, that to get 2,200lbs, they would be quoting a boat weight minus pushpit, pulpit, stanchions, life lines, bunk cushions, tiller, anchor, rope and chain - and of course, motor, fuel, water - and perhaps decals .

My current trailer is pretty much the stock Macgregor trailer registered here at an ATM of 3,200lbs. I am looking at putting a new axle assembly under it to get the ATM up to 3,600lbs but not counting on having more than 3,200lb weight all up - the extra ATM is really just a safety margin. Bunk type and location would remain as is.

I am really interested in the aluminium beams and the torsion suspension. They look like a good idea and look like they can reduce the trailer weight by perhaps a reasonable amount - my guess perhaps 150lbs? I definitely want to stick with a single axle trailer for a number of reasons.

I have heard some complaint about fatigue on aluminium trailers but I think it would be easy to spot and relatively easy to replace a beam on the design shown in the ad.

Upgraded the axel and tires on my 26D to 5k several years back and never regretted it. Driven thousands of miles using it as a camper on the trailer. Been as far north as James bay and as far south as Florida. Watch for weld cracks on the frame and have them re-enforsed if they show up.

When you say "5K" is that some local spec designation or are you saying you lifted the ATM to 5,000lbs! ? - now that would be a real safety margin.

 

[monkeybars]

Same situation with 26M deluxe aluminum trailer,standard single torsion axle GVW was 4200lbs which is well below my ready to sail weight. I added second torsion axle for new GVW 8400lbs for a decent safety margin along with 20 additional feet of 6 inch wide longitudinal bunking and 4 additional 3x3 x1/4 alum cross beam supports for the added bunking. Now it's a decent trailer that I have no fears of towing down poorly maintained Mexican highways. The stock deluxe 26M trailer in my opinion has just a light duty marina-parking lot duty rating.

 

[walt]

Cruiser, that is interesting about the weight.. 2778 is a long ways off 2200.. I like your plan, about how much do you figure it will cost?

The picture shows about where the trailer bunks are on my boat which I believe is all stock - might be off but just a little. I’ve towed the boat I think over 10K miles (like a lot of others) with no issues. In 1990, Macgregor/Venture had produced/sold 25000 trailers (which is a huge amount) and not counting towing with too low of tongue weight, surprisingly few issues. Except for a bow roller on the trailer to make is easier to load, Im of the opinion that extra bunks are a good solution for a problem that doesn’t exist at least on the old classics (unless you want to really load the boat heavy with supplies).

 

[finding41]

I don't see the Tatoo trailer as such a bad design. It's made of 2 H channel pieces that run the full length and is attached in 3 spots. 2 spots have cross members and the other is attached to the tongue.
Sure it will flex a bit when a boat is on it. Allot when empty. But I think it is safe as a road trailer even without breaks. (The reference to yard dolly is probably a CYA thing.)
Having breaks is better! Even having a 3rd cross member would be better. (They removed the one that goes under the DB and put in a cable to save weight... $...)
It like the Mac trailers of old... They are coming from off shore in pieces. The Mac factory would just bolt them together. (I have an ownership for a made in Taiwan trailer kit that came with my first boat...? It also came with a trailer ownership...? {Same trailer..} It registered as home made now.)
The torsion suspension should help stop the trailer flexing. (I would hope. The idea is kind of like independent suspension on cars.)

 

[Cruiser1]

Cruiser, that is interesting about the weight.. 2778 is a long ways off 2200.. I like your plan, about how much do you figure it will cost?

The picture shows about where the trailer bunks are on my boat which I believe is all stock - might be off but just a little. I’ve towed the boat I think over 10K miles (like a lot of others) with no issues. In 1990, Macgregor/Venture had produced/sold 25000 trailers (which is a huge amount) and not counting towing with too low of tongue weight, surprisingly few issues. Except for a bow roller on the trailer to make is easier to load, Im of the opinion that extra bunks are a good solution for a problem that doesn’t exist at least on the old classics (unless you want to really load the boat heavy with supplies).

Yes Walt, that looks about right for the bunk location.

Had a look into the cost of aluminium trailer with torsion suspension. Hard to get the aluminium I-Beam in Oz but from what I could see I would be looking at A$1,500-2,000 for the pair of aluminium side rails and about A$2,000 for the torsion axle. UFP don't have a distributor out here but I gather their axles (as on the Tatoo trailer) are highly rated in the US. I would need to count on A$5,000 for materials (plus bending the I-beam if I put it together myself. The high cost of the axle assembly is due to the fact I would have to put all new hubs, wheeels, brakes on it to comply with Oz regulations (6 stud 15" Landcrusier hubs) - even then would be limited to max 3,500lb ATM - once I go over that the price skyrockets even more.

The other way to go is to spend say $600 on new axle springs and sub-frame and use that under the existing structure. Has the advantage I can slide the sub-frame to adjust balance and gives a lot of strength to the main load area between the 2 bunks - pretty much like Sumner did but just staying with the single axle. If any bits of the existing frame look too rusty I could just cut them out and weld in new sections.

Looked into buying a Tatoo 26 trailer and modifying it but it looks like the T26 production has ended after only about 130 boats built and they are just sticking with the T22 - don't blame them really as I think that T22 will sell very well in its niche. Even if I could buy a trailer here I would be looking at $6,000-7,000 plus cost of any modifications. So...... looks like back to the drawing board.

By the way you will probably find the cost of things out here is generally twice what you will pay in the US. A year or so back when we were getting 105 US cents to the A$ prices steadied up a lot as people started getting a lot of things shipped directly from the US. Now we a getting more like 85 US cents to the A$ local prices are moving up again.

 

[Sumner]

.....The other way to go is to spend say $600 on new axle springs and sub-frame and use that under the existing structure. Has the advantage I can slide the sub-frame to adjust balance and gives a lot of strength to the main load area between the 2 bunks - pretty much like Sumner did but just staying with the single axle. If any bits of the existing frame look too rusty I could just cut them out and weld in new sections......

I second that idea. There are millions of leaf spring trailers out there and I see no real need to go with the torsion axle and actually wonder what happens with ride height if someone has one of the factory trailers with it and then really loads the boat up while traveling like I and others have done.

Coming down to FL I was bringing tools/table saw/dingy and materials and lots of stuff to work on the Endeavour and finish wiring the Mac with the additional solar panels and had the boat filled (lighter items) and the Suburban filled from the back to the front including the passenger seat. A lot of stuff and the trailer pulled great (2200 miles), no problems. Of course this loading isn't normal and I hope this is the last time I'm loaded like this but still the leaf springs were just fine.

I had made the V-block on the trailer moveable a few years ago but hadn't towed since doing it. I moved the V-block...

... back against the bow before leaving and the boat was rock solid on the trailer and didn't hobby-horse going over bumps and such which it use to do even if it was within 1/2 inch of the V-block. It took less than a minute to loosen the 2 bolts and slide the V-block against the bow (even lifted the bow just a bit by hand while moving the V-block and after tightening let it rest on the V-block for a really tight fit). Before on a trip like this I could see the bow jacking up and down on bumps and swells in the road no matter how I loaded the boat. I'm very happy with the mod...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-trailer/trailer-mods-17.html

Sumner

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]

 

[Cruiser1]

................ I had made the V-block on the trailer moveable a few years ago but hadn't towed since doing it. I moved the V-block...

... back against the bow before leaving and the boat was rock solid on the trailer and didn't hobby-horse going over bumps and such which it use to do even if it was within 1/2 inch of the V-block. It took less than a minute to loosen the 2 bolts and slide the V-block against the bow (even lifted the bow just a bit by hand while moving the V-block and after tightening let it rest on the V-block for a really tight fit). Before on a trip like this I could see the bow jacking up and down on bumps and swells in the road no matter how I loaded the boat. I'm very happy with the mod...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-trailer/trailer-mods-17.html

Sumner

Yes, I owe a big 'thank you' to you Sumner for all your work and write-ups on this, that I have been following over time. That front roller and sliding V-Block certainly sounds like the way to go. I suspect the bounce being absorbed by the boat being tight up against the V-Block is in fact probably much less stress than the hull gets in a big sea.

Just as a matter of interest Sumner. If I recall you had a bit of a lateral bend in the trailer frame, between the two bunks. Mine also has that bit of bending and I wondered if it is because the V of the bunks has deepened? When you put a jig on your rails to straighten them out and fit the sub-frame can you remember what width you kept with between the side rails of the trailer?

Later ...... Having made the comment above I have just re-read your write-up on your web site. Looks like you just pulled the middle of the frame inwards? Is that correct? Did the ends of the rails at the V-bunks stay the same distance apart?

 

[Sumner]

....Just as a matter of interest Sumner. If I recall you had a bit of a lateral bend in the trailer frame, between the two bunks. Mine also has that bit of bending and I wondered if it is because the V of the bunks has deepened? When you put a jig on your rails to straighten them out and fit the sub-frame can you remember what width you kept with between the side rails of the trailer?

Later ...... Having made the comment above I have just re-read your write-up on your web site. Looks like you just pulled the middle of the frame inwards? Is that correct? Did the ends of the rails at the V-bunks stay the same distance apart?

Like a lot of things I forgot I had done that so had to go back and look at the pictures. I'm not sure if the distance at the bunks had changed over original just that the frame bowed out between them. I used pieces of the square tubing that became the new sub-frame to know when I pulled the bow back out. Who knows some of it might of gone back in later with....

.... the sub-frame attached and....

.... with the cable removed. It has worked so whatever it is good to go. I did raise...

.... the bunks some to help hopefully with rust in the future but kept the same angle as before and the boat fits fine so I think that even though the frame rails had spread some the bunks were not effected.

If anyone is interested in all the pictures and text you can find it here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/trailer-mods-index.html

Sumner

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

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[justsomeguy]

I had made the V-block on the trailer moveable a few years ago but hadn't towed since doing it. I moved the V-block...

Sumner

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Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links[/FONT]

In doing so, you've made a variable of the placement of the known center of gravity.

Too much math for the masses.