What do people think about the Tatoo 26 Trailer?

[Cruiser1]

.................. I'm not sure if the distance at the bunks had changed over original just that the frame bowed out between them............

Thanks Sumner, I think I am once again 'over thinking' issues. My reasoning was than if the spring is bolted to the axle and the frame, then the frame (rails) could not move - hence the bunks must have dropped in the middle. In hindsight I guess a reasonable amount of slack or bend can develop, over time, between the spring attachment on the axle and the spring hangers - one obvious example would be wear in the shackle bushes.

Looks like I will also have to go your way and extend the trailer in order to better comply with some changes in our registration legislation - to do with distance between end of boat and end of trailer.

In doing so, you've made a variable of the placement of the known center of gravity.

Too much math for the masses.

Hi JSG,
Perhaps and perhaps not. I think what Sumner has done with the movable V-Block is to allow the V-Block to be moved back when loading the trailer so that it is not obstructing the forward movement of the boat when it is being pulled onto the trailer (and the front part of the trailer is at the same time bending upwards). When the tension is taken off the trailer winch and boat bow then settles back a little, if the boat is in the correct position for trailing ie. balanced, then the block can be moved forward against the bow.

But yes, point taken it does make the SOG placement variable - and of course that can be very helpful if one changes the load placement in the boat over time.

 

[Sumner]

In doing so, you've made a variable of the placement of the known center of gravity.

Too much math for the masses.

Not really I just end up with the bow where it is after someone does the "Mac Bump". Slide the block forward and load the boat on the trailer. Now the boat is forward a couple inches where it would be after normal loading and doing the 'bump'. Then slide the block against the boat and tighten the bolts.

Also where is the 'know center of gravity'? Is it with or without an outboard on the stern? What size outboard? How much stored in the lazarette? How much and where are things stored in the boat?

With the moveable V-block maybe the boat ends up an inch or so one way or the other vs. the factory block, but at least now the V is tight against the boat. Lots of people don't have it tight. Personally I never had much luck with the bump and didn't like trying it. I mean you are trying to get a one ton load sliding on the trailer and trying to do it in a manner where it will not slide too hard/too fast. I didn't like that.

Lots of unknowns that one has to account for all the time along with the tow vehicle used. I using a Suburban so setup the load with a lot of tongue weight, around 400#'s. That would be too much for people towing with say a smaller car like some do. I've also gone from the single axle to two so lots of changes. Trailer tows like a dream. In Texas there were 40-50 mph constant crosswinds and no problem at all. With the old single axle it would of been more of a handful especially with all the semi's passing on I 20 and elsewhere,

Sumner

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[justsomeguy]

snip-
Also where is the 'know center of gravity'? Is it with or without an outboard on the stern? What size outboard? How much stored in the lazarette? How much and where are things stored in the boat?

With the moveable V-block maybe the boat ends up an inch or so one way or the other vs. the factory block, but at least now the V is tight against the boat. Lots of people don't have it tight. Personally I never had much luck with the bump and didn't like trying it. I mean you are trying to get a one ton load sliding on the trailer and trying to do it in a manner where it will not slide too hard/too fast. I didn't like that.

Lots of unknowns that one has to account for all the time along with the tow vehicle used. I using a Suburban so setup the load with a lot of tongue weight, around 400#'s. That would be too much for people towing with say a smaller car like some do. I've also gone from the single axle to two so lots of changes. Trailer tows like a dream. In Texas there were 40-50 mph constant crosswinds and no problem at all. With the old single axle it would of been more of a handful especially with all the semi's passing on I 20 and elsewhere,

Sumner

It's just a matter of technique to get the bow into the V. The guys that retrieve my M25 consistently do it just fine.

Once you've figured out the variables of using your moveable V, I'm sure you'd be able to replicate the procedure time after time.

Whatever floats your boat, Sum.

 

[Sumner]

It's just a matter of technique to get the bow into the V. The guys that retrieve my M25 consistently do it just fine.

Don't forget the bunks are completely different on the 25's and earlier boats. I don't remember if I've read about people having to do the 'bump' with them. Not sure if you read it or not but here is what I think presents the problems with our bunk layout...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-trailer/trailer-mods-17-a.html

Sumner

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[justsomeguy]

I've read all of your blog posts, Sum.

 

[walt]

one thing Im wondering now is will I need to replace my trailer tires for the long drive I want to do this fall. They are probably now 5 years old but in great shape. For the last few years, the trailer mostly sits with the back end up on blocks and the tires are covered so they dont get sun.. Im thinking I will go maybe another year since they look to be in near perfect shape. I had a tire come completely off with the single axle trailer (nuts worked loose) and if you have enough tongue weight, its fairly controlled.. but tire problems no matter what are not at all fun.

I have driven I40 and I70 multiple times with the 26S and a single axle trailer.. didnt think it was any issue at all as long as you have enough tongue weight.. but I would probaby feel more secure with two axles.

 

[Sumner]

one thing Im wondering now is will I need to replace my trailer tires for the long drive I want to do this fall. They are probably now 5 years old but in great shape. For the last few years, the trailer mostly sits with the back end up on blocks and the tires are covered so they dont get sun.. Im thinking I will go maybe another year since they look to be in near perfect shape. ....

I was in the same fix a month ago and bit the bullet and bought 4 new tires for $350. I didn't want to deal with tires coming apart in the 'middle of nowhere' New Mexico in the dark and cold or in one of the cities with no easy way to get off the road. It was nice driving down here and not worrying about the tires. I also put grease in the hubs via the fittings but didn't pull them and repack by hand so watched for heat in them but they were fine the whole trip.

I have a 2 axle car hauler trailer and a few years ago loaned it to a friend so he could go down to AZ to get a car. The tires only had maybe 4000 miles on them and were about 5 years old. Tires looked like new but one came apart and the others started to but got him back to Utah. I replaced them all. About all the info you read now says 5 years regardless of how they look.

It is hard to put new tires on when the others look so good but you are only buying 2 so I would for sure considering that. I helped a gal pull a house trailer from Wyoming to CA once and part way across Nevada the tires started coming apart. We were a long ways from town and it was a 250 mile round trip to get new tires for the trailer and not fun doing it in Jan. when it was cold.

If you have used the trailer a lot I wouldn't be quite as concerned as tires that are being use excrete something that helps them...

During use a tire releases compound lubricants that are
beneficial to tire life. Using

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...exVLn0nBahY8syrhWM7SBIQ&bvm=bv.83829542,d.aWw

Also it isn't just the sun that causes problems...

Oxidation, not tread wear

According to rubber industry research, trailer tires need to be replaced after 3-5 years of use, even though they usually appear to have plenty of tread left. Unlike your car’s tires, it isn’t miles of driving but oxidation of the rubber that wears out the tire. Mostly, a trailer tire sits in one spot for days or weeks at a time, and may travel only 10,000 miles (or sometimes a lot less) per year. UV radiation from sunlight and ozone from exhaust cause exterior damage to the sidewalls, and oxygen from pressurized air creates unseen damage deep inside.

http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Trailer-Tire-Basics

If you have rubber valve stems check them by bending them over. On that car hauler we went to add air and some just broke off from rotting. I have metal ones on that trailer now and would of put them on this trailer but they didn't have them and I just got the tires right before I left. If you get tires make sure they replace the stems. My guy always does it so they should also.

Your call in the end,

Sumner

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[walt]

Good thing our boats dont have this lifetime.. another reason I like only having one axle..​

– 3 to 5 years is the average life expectancy of a trailer tire,
regardless of mileage.
– It is estimated that in approximately three years, roughly
one-third of a tire's strength is gone.
– After three years, depending upon storage and conditions of
usage, consider replacing trailer tires even if they have tread
depth remaining.
After five years, trailer tires should be replaced in all cases​

 

[walt]

Sumner, I think I will replace the tires, maybe that is even more imporatant to do more often if you only have one axle. They are 15 inch. I used to windsurf and the sails around the time I stopped lasted about one season, maybe two. They were also considerably more expensive than either two or four tires..

 

[Stratus3]

Hey this maybe only a myth. But I wipe my trailers tire sidewalls with motor oil, tires are made out of oil. I have regularly this to all my trailer tires. Never have lost one to deterioration of the side walls. When we brought our Mac home from farmington nm. To medford or. I started to apply motor oil about a week before we left. When I started the tires would just soak the oil right in after about week they just looked shiny. The po stated the tires were about 7 years old and I should purchase new.
We had no problems on our trip, just wiped them again last week

 

[Doc_holiday]

As far as the S & D models go, I doubt you could bury the bow into the V on the trailer regularly. It's a matter of angles. When the trailer is on the ramp, under water it is at an angle and the boat is level (netting a nose down attitude). When you lock on with the bow line and pull it in all is good, however once the boat and trailer start to come up and out of the water, the aft end of the boat essentially goes down. The forward bunk is the fulcrum and the bow is lifted out of the Vee.

Now if you had the trailer at the perfect depth and motored up the trailer (assuming your motor could push it up) you might could do it.

I think the key is to have very slippery bunks and do the Mac bump

The other means would be to have a drop hitch that would allow the trailer to sit level on the ramp and that of course would depend on the ramp.

 

[Sumner]

... When you lock on with the bow line and pull it in all is good, however once the boat and trailer start to come up and out of the water, the aft end of the boat essentially goes down. The forward bunk is the fulcrum and the bow is lifted out of the Vee....

Exactly what happens :dance::dance:.

...(one) other means would be to have a ....

....moveable Vee which is what I did,

Sumner

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[Doc_holiday]

Of course!

I wish I had a welder and the skills you do.

My boat and the ramps I have used almost always leave 3-4" between the bow and the vee.

 

[Sumner]

...I wish I had a welder and the skills you do....

Hey there isn't anything I know how to do that one couldn't pick up in a month or less. I just added the TIG welder a couple years ago and was welding aluminum within a few days. Not pretty but none of it has come apart . The welding process is way different than the MIG I was familiar with but still with youtubes on everything now you can learn. The other option for many is see if there is a college nearby that has welding or car related courses. I have friends in Farmington, NM that have built whole street rods in those classes. They sign up semester after semester and do all the welding and even the final painting using the schools facilities and end up with a finished car after a year or two.

A MIG is really easy to weld with. Pretty much point and shoot. You just need to make sure you are getting penetration as the weld, especially with a 110 mig can lay on the surface and look good but not be good. With a 110 I wouldn't weld anything thicker than about 1/8th inch to possible 3/16 on a butt joint. But that will weld most projects you are working on.

If in doubt like building a trailer where you need heat to weld in crossmembers even if they are only 1/8th inch thick just use your welder to tack things together and then take it to a welder and he won't have to spend much time at all finishing the job.

The other alternative and what I would recommend is getting a 220 mig in the 175 to 180 amp range and then you can do it all. I would recommend also buying a Miller or Lincoln as they are dead reliable and parts and consumables are everywhere. Once you get a welder you will find all kinds of uses for it, believe me,

Sumner

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[walt]

I have an aluminum project right now.. wish I had a tig welder..


Since you were discussing the trailer loading dynamics, this diagram shows what happens and also shows a slightly different way to deal with the bump issue (Sumners idea will work nicely also).

A key thing to note with this is that when you pull the boat up to the trailer, you tighten the bow eye strap and since you don’t mess with it as you pull the boat up the ramp, its length doesn’t change. The figure below illustrates that as you pull the boat up the ramp, the boat rotates on the trailer. The original stop above the strap will move AWAY from the boat hull as the boat settles on the trailer.. and of course results in the boat sitting too far back on the trailer.

However the very interesting thing is that BELOW the strap, the opposite happens and the bow of the boat moves TOWARD a stop that was positioned below the strap.

Ie, if the stop is below the strap, the bow of the boat doesnt pull away from it as the boat rotates, it actually moves closer or little at all.

So.. I did try this idea by putting a stop below the strap and it actually does work. I’ve been using it for several years now.. the picture below is after pulling the boat out using the lower stop. No iterations, no bumps and boat is sitting in the correct spot. In the picture below, the old high location stop is just a guide. The boat makes contact with the lower stop when its pulled up the trailer to load.

 

[Sumner]

Yes, another way to fix the problem, too bad Roger didn't do that way back when. I'm sure they were aware of the problem right away. Of course being cheap to the extreme they would of done away with the top one and I think as you mentioned that is good to have as a guide and as an added safety measure as it might actually help keep the boat on the trailer in a small accident.

I know a lot of people use the 'bump' but I just don't like the idea of trying to get 2000+ lbs. moving in what is suppose to be a controlled slide on the trailer.

Sumner

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Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

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[walt]

I’m always somewhat paranoid of doing any changes to the trailer because to some extent.. you start to take on some of the manufactures liability.. (may not matter in this case since the manufacture closed down)..

But. when I first got my boat, the trailer was completely stock. It at least had surge brakes but of course they didn’t work. The stock trailer had no roller or support up front, only the two main bunks directlly under the boat. The first time I loaded the boat, I had a real hard time getting it forward on the trailler.. Hard to believe Macgregor didn’t know how bad the boat was to load. First thing I did was to add the additional roller up front - still the single most significant improvement to the trailer in my opinion..

I saw yet another trailer boat manufacture going to that new type of axle with the independent torsion control rather than springs.. hmm.. I wonder if those are more of a single axle deal since I don’t know if they are capable of the load equalizing that you can do with a dual axle spring setup.