hi everyone, im new to this forum but have checked the archives and am confident i have come to the right place-i have some experience with a homemade dinghy but that is it-anyways-i am looking to buy my first sailboat but i am overwhelmed with all of the choices out there-i,m 50 years old-i live in the hamilton ontario area and i,m not interested in dinghy sailing-(health-bad knees and back)i know i need a boat in the 22-35 foot area and i also know that that is a way to broad of an area to get advice about-i know i need one either around the 25 foot area or over 30 foot-problem-i want to be able to weekend it alot-but if some sailing comes back to me from a cpl summmers on a dinghy and i am confident enough i may want to go south to somewhere warm but what size of boat-i live right on lake ontario and a launch is 1/4 mile away and i can dock right behind the house unless we have a noreaster off of the lake-i am worried about being a marina queen (i think thats what they are called)if i get something over 30 feet-i can trailer it to the launch-please help-kevan
what boat should i buy?
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What Boat to Buy?
This is a great place to ask what boat to buy, but it will come down to what you can afford, and how far you want to travel to get it. You will get many different answers from people on the forum about this boat is better than that boat, but you need to make the decision. The most common answers will be Catalina or Hunter. They are both great boats, and are similar in many ways. Both are great starter boats and are easy to find in most places. You can get a 25' that you can trailer, but when you reach about 30' it gets a little more complicated. My 30' Hunter needs to be trailered by a semi and needs wide load permits. A friend has a Catalina 25 that is a great boat for the money. It doesn't have the head room that my 30' has, but it works for day sails and weekends. It is even ok for a few days out. Parts are easily obtainable for either boat and can be found in most boating stores and online.
Make sure that you get a survey on any boat that you want to buy. It will save you a lot of headaches and $$$ down the road. If you buy an older used boat, be ready for repairs and up-grades. They are part of every boat. I've spent thousands on my boats, but wouldn't do it any other way.
If this all makes sense, Go buy that boat that you have been looking at and have fun sailing. There's no better way to enjoy life than sailing. Good luck Kevan and have fun.
This is a great place to ask what boat to buy, but it will come down to what you can afford, and how far you want to travel to get it. You will get many different answers from people on the forum about this boat is better than that boat, but you need to make the decision. The most common answers will be Catalina or Hunter. They are both great boats, and are similar in many ways. Both are great starter boats and are easy to find in most places. You can get a 25' that you can trailer, but when you reach about 30' it gets a little more complicated. My 30' Hunter needs to be trailered by a semi and needs wide load permits. A friend has a Catalina 25 that is a great boat for the money. It doesn't have the head room that my 30' has, but it works for day sails and weekends. It is even ok for a few days out. Parts are easily obtainable for either boat and can be found in most boating stores and online.
Make sure that you get a survey on any boat that you want to buy. It will save you a lot of headaches and $$$ down the road. If you buy an older used boat, be ready for repairs and up-grades. They are part of every boat. I've spent thousands on my boats, but wouldn't do it any other way.
If this all makes sense, Go buy that boat that you have been looking at and have fun sailing. There's no better way to enjoy life than sailing. Good luck Kevan and have fun.
So much to consider....
Hopefully you have searched the archives and other online sources. Why not visit some brokers in your area and get a "feel" for the different size boats available in your area? A good reputable broker (there are some out there) will take the time to answer your questions. A larger boat will feel more comfortable, but you also need to consider singlehandling and trailering it (if that's your plan). Many a person has spent years sailing a small trailorable boat with great satisfaction. Personally I think a good compromise on size and habitability would be the 28' or 30' boat, but you need to assess your own circumstances. New or used? again- a personal choice. There is another post here today from a guy that bought a new boat that seems to be a lemon. I have a friend that bought a brand new Catalina 36 that was a BIG disappointment. An older boat will have most of the kinks worked out of it, as well as most of the depreciation. We have a 1975 that is a pure joy - warts and all. Good luck in your search. Let us know how it works out.
Hopefully you have searched the archives and other online sources. Why not visit some brokers in your area and get a "feel" for the different size boats available in your area? A good reputable broker (there are some out there) will take the time to answer your questions. A larger boat will feel more comfortable, but you also need to consider singlehandling and trailering it (if that's your plan). Many a person has spent years sailing a small trailorable boat with great satisfaction. Personally I think a good compromise on size and habitability would be the 28' or 30' boat, but you need to assess your own circumstances. New or used? again- a personal choice. There is another post here today from a guy that bought a new boat that seems to be a lemon. I have a friend that bought a brand new Catalina 36 that was a BIG disappointment. An older boat will have most of the kinks worked out of it, as well as most of the depreciation. We have a 1975 that is a pure joy - warts and all. Good luck in your search. Let us know how it works out.
Tuff Choice and $$$$$
What is your budget $$$$$ and you need to decide if
you want to trailer or a keel boat.
More info under standing what you want,going south
from your location 30 to 35 would be good and very
few that size to trailer.
Maybe start with a 25 trailer sailor and get some sailing
experience and move up bigger when ready to go south.
Nick
What is your budget $$$$$ and you need to decide if
you want to trailer or a keel boat.
More info under standing what you want,going south
from your location 30 to 35 would be good and very
few that size to trailer.
Maybe start with a 25 trailer sailor and get some sailing
experience and move up bigger when ready to go south.
Nick
O'Day23
Hey buddy ....... just a quick note. I am a disabled sailor. Two years ago, I went from a Catalina 25 (full keel) to an O'Day 23. I just love it. She sails good and stable, in heavier winds, so is easy to sail, there is alot more room up on deck to walk around, and is a whole lot easier to take care of in haul out and getting her ready, in the spring. Plus, not too bad on the truck in pulling her to and from the lake. You might watch for one !!!!
Bob Burns+Rascal
Hey buddy ....... just a quick note. I am a disabled sailor. Two years ago, I went from a Catalina 25 (full keel) to an O'Day 23. I just love it. She sails good and stable, in heavier winds, so is easy to sail, there is alot more room up on deck to walk around, and is a whole lot easier to take care of in haul out and getting her ready, in the spring. Plus, not too bad on the truck in pulling her to and from the lake. You might watch for one !!!!
Bob Burns+Rascal
Being on a great lake ...
my advise is always on a boat with a keel rather than a trailer sailer. The only time I would ever agree with a person who wants a trailer sailer would be the person who knows that they want mobility over land and will knowingly put up with the PIA that it is to rig it in the parking lot. If you don't know what a PIA it is to do that, then the first season will very likely either cause you to unload the boat and give up sailing (this will happen if your wife, girlfriend or kids get that bored look everytime you suggest trailering the boat to a destination), or unload the boat for a keel boat.
A boat with a keel will give you a safer feeling and a level of comfort on the open waters of a great lake that could mean the difference between sailing with a happy crew and sailing with an anxious crew.
That said, there are too many choices to name. Find one that looks good to you and has a good survey. On a great lake, get a boat with an inboard engine rather than an outboard, and verify that the engine is in good condition. Size will make a difference and I think it is not possible for a full-size man and crew to be comfortable on a boat less than 27'. Especially with issues about your mobility, don't plan on a trailer sailer and don't get too small. In fact if you have some problems getting around, you may need a 30' boat at least. On our 27' boat, we have a lack of headroom, and moving around the cockpit often requires some gymnastics. A day on the boat is a physical workout because of the cramped conditions. It would be far worse on anything smaller. Maybe figure out if you prefer a fractional rig versus a masthead rig. Learn the difference if you don't know.
We have a Starwind 27 which was made in 1984. It could be perfect for you to start with if you are physically fit. It is as large as we can consider on our small lake. When we move, my wife wants a boat large enough to have a comfortable shower and head and more space in the cockpit. She likes a nice 44' center cockpit model
with a TV in the cabin.
my advise is always on a boat with a keel rather than a trailer sailer. The only time I would ever agree with a person who wants a trailer sailer would be the person who knows that they want mobility over land and will knowingly put up with the PIA that it is to rig it in the parking lot. If you don't know what a PIA it is to do that, then the first season will very likely either cause you to unload the boat and give up sailing (this will happen if your wife, girlfriend or kids get that bored look everytime you suggest trailering the boat to a destination), or unload the boat for a keel boat.
A boat with a keel will give you a safer feeling and a level of comfort on the open waters of a great lake that could mean the difference between sailing with a happy crew and sailing with an anxious crew.
That said, there are too many choices to name. Find one that looks good to you and has a good survey. On a great lake, get a boat with an inboard engine rather than an outboard, and verify that the engine is in good condition. Size will make a difference and I think it is not possible for a full-size man and crew to be comfortable on a boat less than 27'. Especially with issues about your mobility, don't plan on a trailer sailer and don't get too small. In fact if you have some problems getting around, you may need a 30' boat at least. On our 27' boat, we have a lack of headroom, and moving around the cockpit often requires some gymnastics. A day on the boat is a physical workout because of the cramped conditions. It would be far worse on anything smaller. Maybe figure out if you prefer a fractional rig versus a masthead rig. Learn the difference if you don't know.
We have a Starwind 27 which was made in 1984. It could be perfect for you to start with if you are physically fit. It is as large as we can consider on our small lake. When we move, my wife wants a boat large enough to have a comfortable shower and head and more space in the cockpit. She likes a nice 44' center cockpit model
with a TV in the cabin.you can never
go wrong with a trailor sailor, 25,26 footer they are great weekend boats and are a lot of fun, a good 20 year old Mac can be bought on this site for well under 10K try that first and if you like it then move up to the 30+ and everything that goes with it. you will have no trouble selling your used trailor sailor if you do. "I have no less than 3 people stop a week and offer to buy mine out of my driveway" I am honestly thinking of buying a 36 islander to keep on the big pond AKA Lake Michigan, and keep my Mac 25 for inland and close to home sailing. I also know a lot of people who slip thier trailor sailors also so keep that in mind too.
that being said I also live in MI where you are never more than 6.5 miles from water.
as far as brand.. they all float just pick one with the most of what you like in it.
Hunters and Catalina's seem to be the most popular used keel boats right now, and Mac's dominate the trailor sailor community.
If you are talking brand new?
just don't, and buy used first I would hate to see someone drop that kind of coin on something unless they knew everything about it and they wanted it.
go wrong with a trailor sailor, 25,26 footer they are great weekend boats and are a lot of fun, a good 20 year old Mac can be bought on this site for well under 10K try that first and if you like it then move up to the 30+ and everything that goes with it. you will have no trouble selling your used trailor sailor if you do. "I have no less than 3 people stop a week and offer to buy mine out of my driveway" I am honestly thinking of buying a 36 islander to keep on the big pond AKA Lake Michigan, and keep my Mac 25 for inland and close to home sailing. I also know a lot of people who slip thier trailor sailors also so keep that in mind too.
that being said I also live in MI where you are never more than 6.5 miles from water.
as far as brand.. they all float just pick one with the most of what you like in it.
Hunters and Catalina's seem to be the most popular used keel boats right now, and Mac's dominate the trailor sailor community.
If you are talking brand new?
just don't, and buy used first I would hate to see someone drop that kind of coin on something unless they knew everything about it and they wanted it.
If you know wherer you'll be doing the majority of your sailing
and where you will put in or slip her, go down on a couple of different days and hang out at the marina. Introduce yourself to a few sailors and ask some questions. Hell you might even get a complimentarty sail or two in. The sailors that I have had the pleasure of meeting are generally a very gracious lot and willing to share both fact and opinion. Ask what they would do differently if they were to start over. They might even know of a great deal on a starter boat, just get it checked over by a pro before you start handing over money.
best of luck and come back often!
Dave
and where you will put in or slip her, go down on a couple of different days and hang out at the marina. Introduce yourself to a few sailors and ask some questions. Hell you might even get a complimentarty sail or two in. The sailors that I have had the pleasure of meeting are generally a very gracious lot and willing to share both fact and opinion. Ask what they would do differently if they were to start over. They might even know of a great deal on a starter boat, just get it checked over by a pro before you start handing over money.
best of luck and come back often!
Dave
more info and thanks to all reply's
thanks for the reply,s -ok-first off-money really is not a big concern (don't get me wrong-i'm by no means a rich man), but i am pretty sure that it will be a used boat-and the majority of the sailing will be done on lake ontario-i,m going with used because of the depreciation of anything new-not just boats-second-i am an experienced boater but with power boats for at least the last 20 yrs-as i said in the original post-i have sailed but (i can,t believe how fast time goes)not for at least 20 yrs-i sailed and actually helped this friend build and upkeep a small wooden & fiberglass sailboat for at least 2-3 summers everyday on lake ontario-i would love to go to a marina and try to talk to ppl but here all the marina's seem to be private and for the very well off citezen,s of oakville and burlington and even the hamilton yaught club-so i'm willing to part with 20-39k-but still don't know if i need a swing keel or a fixed-like i said if dock fees were a little more reasonable, i would look for something over 30'-so it still comes to this=it will be a used boat but 22'-25' or over 30'-and the worst thing for me would to be a marina queen or whatever-also my health is ok-just bad knees from baseball and dirtbiking-and bad back from bad lifting and a car accident-thanks again to all reply's happy sailing-and i want to be doing that too-oh-one more thing-i said i have not sailed since 12-i still get this itch every year since those great days of summer as a kid-kevan from the beach strip
thanks for the reply,s -ok-first off-money really is not a big concern (don't get me wrong-i'm by no means a rich man), but i am pretty sure that it will be a used boat-and the majority of the sailing will be done on lake ontario-i,m going with used because of the depreciation of anything new-not just boats-second-i am an experienced boater but with power boats for at least the last 20 yrs-as i said in the original post-i have sailed but (i can,t believe how fast time goes)not for at least 20 yrs-i sailed and actually helped this friend build and upkeep a small wooden & fiberglass sailboat for at least 2-3 summers everyday on lake ontario-i would love to go to a marina and try to talk to ppl but here all the marina's seem to be private and for the very well off citezen,s of oakville and burlington and even the hamilton yaught club-so i'm willing to part with 20-39k-but still don't know if i need a swing keel or a fixed-like i said if dock fees were a little more reasonable, i would look for something over 30'-so it still comes to this=it will be a used boat but 22'-25' or over 30'-and the worst thing for me would to be a marina queen or whatever-also my health is ok-just bad knees from baseball and dirtbiking-and bad back from bad lifting and a car accident-thanks again to all reply's happy sailing-and i want to be doing that too-oh-one more thing-i said i have not sailed since 12-i still get this itch every year since those great days of summer as a kid-kevan from the beach strip
Consider something along the lines of a Contessa
Or one of Carl Alberg's designs or one of Chuck Paine's designs. The link is for Paine's "Annie".
http://www.chuckpaine.com/pdf/30ANNIE230.pdf
Or one of Carl Alberg's designs or one of Chuck Paine's designs. The link is for Paine's "Annie".
http://www.chuckpaine.com/pdf/30ANNIE230.pdf
What ever you consider
go with a boat with all lines leading to the cockpit. A roller furling jib, even possibly a roller furling main. These make sailing for us not so flexable or less agile people a lot easier.
go with a boat with all lines leading to the cockpit. A roller furling jib, even possibly a roller furling main. These make sailing for us not so flexable or less agile people a lot easier.
Wing Keels
Generally speaking, a wing keel will not point as well. Also, do not buy a boat whose rudder is deeper than its keel. a design that makes no sense to me. In a grounding, it will be your rudder taking the brunt of the collision. Keels can usually take it, but not rudders.
Generally speaking, a wing keel will not point as well. Also, do not buy a boat whose rudder is deeper than its keel. a design that makes no sense to me. In a grounding, it will be your rudder taking the brunt of the collision. Keels can usually take it, but not rudders.
not always, Higgs!
I'd like to qualify Higgs' comment. Perhaps with a wheel steering system, or with a tiller that runs through the hull it makes no sense to have a longer rudder. However, on my previous boat, a Hunter 23 Wing, it had tiller steering with a longer swing-up rudder. The only time I ever hit shallow water, it popped up the rudder before we ran aground. It's much simpler to reset the rope in a cleat, and eventually replace a few feet of rope than it would have been to unground ourselves.
By the way, I've since complicated my life by moving up to a 28. Anyone interested in a beautiful 88 Hunter 23, just let me know.
I'd like to qualify Higgs' comment. Perhaps with a wheel steering system, or with a tiller that runs through the hull it makes no sense to have a longer rudder. However, on my previous boat, a Hunter 23 Wing, it had tiller steering with a longer swing-up rudder. The only time I ever hit shallow water, it popped up the rudder before we ran aground. It's much simpler to reset the rope in a cleat, and eventually replace a few feet of rope than it would have been to unground ourselves.
By the way, I've since complicated my life by moving up to a 28.
Anyone interested in a beautiful 88 Hunter 23, just let me know.tell me about your 23" hunter, because this is getting really frustrating
hey guys and girls-i hate to say it but i'm really confused about either a 25ft. swing or something 30+-every site seems to condradict the last ansmer i got-anyways can you tell me about your hunter 23' and give all relevent info-thanks-P.S. does anyone here know anyone from canada-IE: do you know anyone that has a boat docked at the Hamilton Yaught Club, La-Salle Park-Bronte, or Oakville Marina's-if so and they are mebers here they could probably take me in with them to loook at some boats and i could also explain in better detail of what i need-thanks again to all previuos and future replies-kevan
hey guys and girls-i hate to say it but i'm really confused about either a 25ft. swing or something 30+-every site seems to condradict the last ansmer i got-anyways can you tell me about your hunter 23' and give all relevent info-thanks-P.S. does anyone here know anyone from canada-IE: do you know anyone that has a boat docked at the Hamilton Yaught Club, La-Salle Park-Bronte, or Oakville Marina's-if so and they are mebers here they could probably take me in with them to loook at some boats and i could also explain in better detail of what i need-thanks again to all previuos and future replies-kevan
Kevin
I read you have some sailing experience. As you have 20K+ to spend I would seriously suggest that you rent several of the types of boats that you are interested in buying. Just a day rental with the boat already rigged. In Florida it is really easy. Another option is to get with a brooker and have them take you out on several models they have listed. Find what feels right for you. I know several people that have bought quality boats but never liked the way they felt or the way it sounded underway. I had been on Catalinas, O'Days, and Hunters. That is the list I worked with to find another boat when we decided to jump back in. There are also considerations that might not mean much to someone else. I wanted a boat that had laid glass construction rather than blown chopped glass. That removes several models from the list right off the top.
One consideration on a swing keel or centerboard is going to be where you plan on sailing. A full keel will always point better and have a smoother sail, but will do you no good in shallow water. I frequent very shallow water in the Big Bend area of Florida. There are plenty of areas that a full keel can go in this area but also many they cannot. I also love going to the Conch Republic, the Florida Keys. Swing keels are very nice in that area to get through all the shallows.
Good luck and remain very patient in your search. Go slow and end up with exactly what will make you happy. Very few boaters get the boat they want to keep the first time. If you take your time, you will not have to sell it for the boat you know you want in a few years.
I read you have some sailing experience. As you have 20K+ to spend I would seriously suggest that you rent several of the types of boats that you are interested in buying. Just a day rental with the boat already rigged. In Florida it is really easy. Another option is to get with a brooker and have them take you out on several models they have listed. Find what feels right for you. I know several people that have bought quality boats but never liked the way they felt or the way it sounded underway. I had been on Catalinas, O'Days, and Hunters. That is the list I worked with to find another boat when we decided to jump back in. There are also considerations that might not mean much to someone else. I wanted a boat that had laid glass construction rather than blown chopped glass. That removes several models from the list right off the top.
One consideration on a swing keel or centerboard is going to be where you plan on sailing. A full keel will always point better and have a smoother sail, but will do you no good in shallow water. I frequent very shallow water in the Big Bend area of Florida. There are plenty of areas that a full keel can go in this area but also many they cannot. I also love going to the Conch Republic, the Florida Keys. Swing keels are very nice in that area to get through all the shallows.
Good luck and remain very patient in your search. Go slow and end up with exactly what will make you happy. Very few boaters get the boat they want to keep the first time. If you take your time, you will not have to sell it for the boat you know you want in a few years.
thanks kev
hey kevin-thanks-i am looking for those types of boats that you mentioned-here-i don't know where they offer lessons or where a broker can take you out etc-also-i am being very carefull-maybe to carefull as i have been looking for at least 2 years and probably longer-what happens is this-i start looking and am very anxious and then i get frustrated and as the summer comes to an end i get discouraged and then quit looking-and now with turning 49...hehehe-im running out of time-kevan
hey kevin-thanks-i am looking for those types of boats that you mentioned-here-i don't know where they offer lessons or where a broker can take you out etc-also-i am being very carefull-maybe to carefull as i have been looking for at least 2 years and probably longer-what happens is this-i start looking and am very anxious and then i get frustrated and as the summer comes to an end i get discouraged and then quit looking-and now with turning 49...hehehe-im running out of time-kevan
hey FOB
i have to leave for work-thanks for the reply-i will definately contact you-thanks-kevan
i have to leave for work-thanks for the reply-i will definately contact you-thanks-kevan
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