what boat should i buy? PART 2

[Manny]

Not familiar with the 23

Sorry Kevan, I'm not familiar with the 23 but definitely check out the reviews for it here on this site. There are quite a few listed, also there are a couple posted for sale. Just click on the Boat Info link and then click on Owner Reviews.

Manny

 

[sailorKevan]

thanks manny

.

 

[jimq26]

Kevan - check the Shark24 link - lots of Sharks for sale

Yes - and quite a few in Bronte Harbour where I am. Check out the for sale listings in the clubhouse. I know of 3 for sale here alone. Fair pricing on them all as well.

 

[sailorKevan]

jimq26 thanks-but

what shark site-do you mean on this site then click the owners section then click shark? also i'm thinking of heading over to bronte shortly-are you there-thanks jim-kevan

 

[Ross]

kevan , I am not one to ask concerning a Hunter

23 as I have never been on one. They are popular and the company was able to build them at a profit. That means that they were able to control their costs.

 

[jimq26]

Here is the Shark 24 site again (repeat of #28)

Go to the bar at BHYC and ask to see the boat listing binder. It is a private club, but we regularly "sign in" visitors who would like a pint of Keith's IPA.
Cheers,

 

[sailorKevan]

thanks Ross, and know what...

i think that you are absoulutely right-myself-just because something went wrong on one of them-does not mean that they are all bad-there are way too many hunters still around and ppl own them so somethings got to be right-so anyways-i will continue my search and hunters will definately be a part of that search-kevan

 

[sailorKevan]

jimq-just so happens that i would love a

pint of alexander keith's right about now-so jim-go to the bar ask for beer and binder then check it out-sounds good-so if i take qew to Toronto-go south on bronte-will that take me right into the club? kevan

 

[jimq26]

Kevan - directions -

Here ya go.
QEW to Bronte Road (hwy.25) - south to Lakeshore & turn right - BHYC is the left driveway just before the bridge. South side of Lakeshore Road.

 

[sailorKevan]

thanks jimq-for everything-including the amount of patience you have shown here!

.

 

[Ross]

There are several ways to control cost.

There is labor cost. automation and production line methods help.

There is material cost. The control is careful purchasing and building to minimum scantlings.

There is overhead expense and marketing expense. very hard to control.

 

[Nice N Easy]

Hunter 23

Unless you are planning on moving up in boat size later, I would pass on the H23.
Not because there may or may not be anything wrong with the boat, it just isn't big enough for what you are wanting to do. I know some do it, but man you have to be a glutton for punishment. First, a 23 will literally beat you do death if it kicks up very much, second there isn't enough room for much storage, such as food and water. Third there just isn't any move around room, you will be cramped up a bunch. The difference between a 23 and a 25 doesn't sound like it would be much, but go inside and the two feet difference will be a whole lot more room. For what you want, I would put my absolute minimum size at 27, and would really have to think hard about any boat under 30. There are plenty of good 27 and 30 foot boats around in your price range.

 

[Jim Kolstoe]

More on H23

Kevin, I have to say that based on your stated requirements, you may not want a boat as small as a 23' anything. Regarding the h23, I am the orginal owner of a 1986 h23. Obviously I like it, a lot. But I also understand that like any boat, it is the product of a series of compromises. I am not bothered by the low overhead - I've been in shorter cabins, and I like the reduced windage it provides. I love the size of the cockpit, but that reduces the available interior volume. Because I'm an inland sailor, the ability to trailer it easily has been great. But trailering limits the size, including interior space, of a boat. There are some who claim the h23 is "tender." I disagree - noting that one of my kids favorite sailing games was to sit on the lee rail while I pulled in the main to make her heel as much as possible. Speaking of kids, we raised three, with many a sailing weekend. Sleeping was kind of like being in a tent - the two girls in the v-berth, son in the quarter-berth and my wife and I in the midships "berth." But everyone had a place to sleep comfortably, and the galley was adequate, but it would not be acceptable in my house. As for performance, go look at the PHRF (performance handicapped racing fleet) ratings of the boats you have in mind. I think you'll find the h23 has a decent turn of speed. In summation, it has been, and still is, a great boat for me. But not necessarily for you.
Frankly, the various discussions of the "perfect boat" are somewhere between BS and hot air. Perfect for what and for whom? There is no such thing as a single "perfect boat." The question comes down to whether it will do the things you want it to, including those things that require mutually antagonistic traits, and how do you feel about being aboard and under sail on that boat. The suggestion that you slow down on putting your money down and take time to sail on as many different boat as you can over the next several months is on the money. You will be happier, and maybe even save on your purchase price, if you take a little time.
Good luck and happy sailing.
Jim Kolstoe, h23 Kara's Boo

 

[Ctskip]

From what I can make out of all this communication

is that you seem to be in a hurry to get on the water. I can't say I blame you. You have been vacillating between a 27 footer and a 23 footer. Big swing. I'd sail and visit every boat I could. With whom ever you are sailing with too. (spouse, children) What they have to say matters. Maybe not now, but later when you want to sail and they don't. You'll visit many boats, so be sure to keep notes on each one, what you like and what you don't. What needs to be replaced and it's strong points. I wish you luck and you are getting some great feed back here. Maybe if you gave us a list of what you need and the size of your crew and how you intend to use the boat, that could narrow the list some for you.
I wouldn't be surprised if you never hear from Maine sail again. Your last response with him, wasn't very cordial. It was kind of short. Just my opinion on how I read it. He's a very valuable asset to many of us.

Again good luck and, the time you take now, will pay off later. Do your homework.
Keep it up,
Ctskip

 

[sailorKevan]

Ctskip

you know Ctskip-after seeing some in person on the weekend im more perplexed then ever-and i read back to the Mainsail comment-your right it sounds pretty harsh-sorry mainsail-i didnt mean it to come out like it sounds there-i dont know how i meant it but not the way it reads there-hey ctskip-if you correspond with him let him know its a mistake and bad wording-i will remove it=cya-kevan

 

[Scott]

More is lost by indecision ...

than by making the wrong decision. So said Carmella in an episode of The Sopranos when she was demurely giving Tony the green light when she knew he wanted to buy the shore house in the "Whitecaps" episode. Maybe you are a fan of The Sopranos?

You've said you have been looking for a boat for over two years and you are still struggling over what your needs really are? You are way too indecisive. It's time for you to fish or cut bait. And you are back-sliding something terrible. There is no way that a 23' - 25' sailboat that costs about $5,000 is going to fill your stated needs. You'll get a boat that is too small and doesn't have anything on it worthwhile. Although you say that you have the budget, you're scared off by the price for a boat that fits your needs.

FOB has your solution, but you got scared off because a few people said the price isn't right. You should take your checkbook with you and sit down with him and make an attempt to get to the right price. If he wants to sell his boat, he'll get there. For all I know, he is already priced about right. The boat looks like it is in a class that you rarely find for an older boat. Are you afraid of parting with too much money? You'll lose this opportunity, if you haven't already. That boat looks like it is a gem (possibly from a single owner?) and it could make you very happy if you are serious about what you want. It will be priced right, eventually, for somebody. If you don't make it yours, you'll be sorry.

 

[Maine Sail]

Kevan..

I was not blowing you off and your post did not even ruffle my feathers. I've been here a while (early 2000) so I have a thick skin. I was waiting to hear back from my neighbor who used to own a 187 Hunter 23.

Based on reading your writings over the last week or so I think you know this is the wrong boat for you but you're just bitten. Though you say you are going to take your time it seems like your a kid with a $1.00 in your pocket and the ice cream truck is in the neighborhood.

Either way here's what my neighbor had to say about it.

#1 The carpeted interior gets very moldy and musty smelling after a while and even grows mold (there kind of neat freaks though). They would have preferred a smooth interior gel coat that was easily scrub able.

#2 Very little ventilation and it only comes from the v-berth hatch.

#3 No real head = bad with guests.

#4 Cockpit good but it made for a cramped cabin especially on trips in the rain where you were bellow most of the time at anchor.

#5 He complained of a list to one side or the other. Apparently the batteries, water tank and outboard motor are all on the same side of the boat.

#6 He thought the boat was very tender in initial stability.

#7 He complained about it's pointing ability compared to his Hunter 34 but then laughed and said "but then I bought an Island Packet what do I care about pointing".

#8 They moved it to their lake house, and bought a Hunter 34, because he thought it was a little to "flexible and feeble" for coastal Maine. His exact words were I had to reef at 12 and put it away at 15-16.

#9 He thought it was an ideal boat for the lake with the once or twice a summer overnight with one of the grand kids but that it was not the boat for making a 50nm weekend trip. They were very nervous sailing it out side the bay and they have years and years of experience and have sailed from Newfoundland to Florida so I trust his judgment.

#10 It took he and his wife about 2 hours to properly rig, hoist and tune the mast. He said it is not a quick to launch trailer sailor and that he preferred to leave it on the mooring all season. They did two it a number of times, rather than sail it, to areas Down East in Maine.

#11 Said the anchor handling was non existent and a real pain in the butt. I don't really know what he meant by this but perhaps there is no anchor locker or place to store one on the bow?


That's all I really got out of him and based on what he had to say and what you have said I think a 23 of just about any brand in your budget is not going to fit the criteria you've laid out..

 

[william]

Many choices

Good luck, hope its not too off topic. Here's the Mac 26 in your price range. I've no experience with this vessel but it's the only sailboat I've seen pulling a waterskier, its been called an abomination, but I hear it sails better than a power boat and powers better than a sailboat.

 

[sailorKevan]

thanks mainsail

and your right-who am i fooling-23 is way to small-im very depressed and dont know what to do now-i went to bronte harbour yesterday and looked at a shark-24 foot-i really took a good look at basically a bare bones boat and realized that the wife would probably not even get in it-i also realized that after i parted with 5 grand-i would probably be very angry about how stupid i was in buying an old boat that is no way near what i need-but also-im just miffed-i talked to the ppl at the yaught club there and they said good luck getting a slip at any of the 4 places i mentioned-so what now-i know i need a mimimum 27 footer probably bigger and i will not be able to dock anywhere-i looked at some boats in the book and some seemed reasonable but are far away and they had some that were just old beat up junky boats and they want a fortune for them-and i do know the value of boats-to a reasonable amount to know thaT they are way overboard in the price-so now what-where do i go from here-in answer to scott about the catalina-dont take this the wrong way but if that is your logic on the way to buy a boat-your gonna be out of alot of money-i hope the owner of that boat all the best in selling but-other comparable boats were on average 10-14k-mind you his is nice and everything is brand new-your the one paying for all that new stuff-im open to suggestions but im losing again-i need a boat that can be single handed most times-i need a boat that has instruments and some modern electronics-close to 6' headroom-a full head-a stove-a fridge if possible rather than an icebox-bimini-dodger and lots more-i onmly have 29k tops-i must have a slip-i will be sleeping on it with 3 other adults sometimes-and i will be going somewhere warm-HELP-kevan

 

[sailorKevan]

scott

you could very well be right about me being scared to part with my money-your post has alot of valid points-after veiwing some boats yesterday-i will be very carefull of how i part with my money-if you want some examples just google boats for sale in the surrounding states-there usually less than half price of a comparable boat here in canada-thanks thoough-and keep it up-kevan