What are you doing for JACKLINES?

kappykaplan · Wednesday at 9:21 AM

John, the same video is linked here:

Tether or Not, that is a question.

Tether or not, auto or manual, important questions for off shore sailing. Here's a real life experiment from John Kretschmer.

forums.sailboatowners.com

capta · Wednesday at 11:38 AM

I have never felt more unsafe going forward on a boat, than with jack lines under foot. The added entangleable points on a hardness do not add to my feeling of security when moving about on a boat.
Perhaps the energy one expends trying to prevent falling overboard with a harness and jacklines, should be spent learning situational awareness and self confidence, and steadfastly refusing one to allow themselves the option of going over the side.
As a professional captain carrying tourists on sightseeing vessels, we were required to perform a "man overboard" drill to renew our COI. The USCG chucks a dummy overboard while we are under sail. The crew (legally 3 minimum) must deal with the sails, booms and sheets (on an 80 odd foot schooner in one case) with 20 or more passengers on deck, trying to keep the victim in sight, while other crew members must also prepare the recovery gear, all in under 3 minutes, seems a Herculean task in the beginning. There is hustle without hurry, because every second that USCG dummy is in the water it is absorbing water and getting much heavier. If you don't succeed, then the boat is out of business until it does. Owners do not find that very profitable.
My point is, even with a professional crew who work together on a daily basis, a man overboard situation is difficult, but on a pleasure craft used now and then, without the same crew each time, this sort of drilling can't be of much help. Which brings us back to rule #1; Do not fall overboard!

BarryL · Wednesday at 12:21 PM

Hello,

The only time I use jacklines is when they are required for a long distance race or by the owner of the boat. When racing, it is required to use a tether when leaving the cockpit between dusk and dawn. In all my years of racing I have never seen a case where the tether was useful.

On my boat there is very little reason to leave the cockpit when underway. All sail controls are led aft. You do need to leave the cockpit to rig the code 0, but not to set or douse the sail. The spinnaker does require multiple people to go foward to rig, set and douse. If this is done at night then you must use a tether, but again, I have never seen a case where the tether kept someone on board. The only time I use the spinnaker is when racing and then it's with experienced crew. That doesn't mean someone couldn't trip fall or get hurt, I just haven't seen it.

When I helped return a boat from Bermuda back to NY the owner required a tether to be used as soon as you left the cabin. I obeyed that rule but I felt silly sitting in the cockpit on a low wind day with the engine on and my tether connected to a pad eye in the well protected cockpit.

Regarding the video, I thought the purpose of a tether was to keep you out of the water. My biggest fear while boating is being dragged behind the boat. I have a few off shore PFD's. My Spinlock has the HRS (Harness Release System) where you can release the tether. My Mustang does not have that so my tether has a quick release shackle at the PDF mounting location.

Barry

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thinwater · Wednesday at 2:27 PM

Are jacklines awkward? Two thoughts.

a. If they are in the way, under foot, or conflicting with other rigging, they are not well designed. They should not be an afterthought, anymore than modern seatbelts are an after thought. They should be a designed part of the boat. Like any rigging, take the time to work it out. But most people just slap them on in heavy weather and then wonder why they don't work. I've never had a boat with them underfoot.
b. If you find the clipping and clipping awkward, you have not practiced enough. I guess part of it is years of climbing expereince, but I don't even think much about it. They certainly don't add mental stress. They reduce it. It takes TIME to learn how to use them efficiently. If you only wear them in heavy weather you will never figure it out.

No, I don't use them often. But it's a non-thing when I do. Clip-on, run to the mast or bow, come back. Easy peasy. Certainly easier than working with one hand.

---

I go climbing about once a week, so tethers and clipping/unclipping are as ingrained as signing my name. Muscle memory.

colemj · Wednesday at 4:50 PM

I think most of us have never seen a case where a tether was useful because those cases are rare. When they do occur, the tether is useful. It's like saying one has never seen a case of their $5M liability insurance being useful.

We use jacklines and tethers when offshore, and at night (although nights are pretty much a subset of offshore). They are rigged so that the jackline is not underfoot, and if one fell, the tether will not allow them over the side of the boat. If for some reason everything fails and a person is in the water, our jackets have built in DSC/AIS beacons in them that cause several devices on our boat to start screaming, and a MOB position automatically plotted and tracked on the plotter, the VHF, the AIS and any computer/phone/tablet in operation. The jackets have harness release systems to free oneself if necessary, and the constantly plotted and tracked MOB allows the person still on the boat to feel comfortable paying attention to getting the boat under control and ready to be used for a retrieval. For retrieval, long low sugar scoop sterns make this a non-issue.

But our main strategy is to stay on the boat. All halyards, sheets, and reefs are run back to the helm. If one has to go on deck, regardless if harnessed or not, there are hand holds all the way from the cockpit to the bow, so that there is never a need to not have at least one hand on the boat.

Mark

garymalmgren · 2026-07-30T02:38:48-0700

This is a topic that comes up pretty regularly and I have kept away from it.
But as the question is What are you doing for JACKLINES?
I will add to the mix.
This is a typical jackline setup.One line down either side.
Clip on in the cockpit and you are free to move all the way forward without un-clipping.
You are also free to fall overboard.
This setup will keep you connected to the boat, but not prevent a MOB situation.

I run one (spare ) 15 mm sheet from the forward cleat, around the mast and back to a spinnaker sheet winch at the stern of the cockpit.
It is taunt,
You need to unclip at the mast and then reclip forward of the mast.
I can hold on to the deck rail and easily and safely handle the clipping.
For me having the jackline down the center and a short tether is the best way to stay aboard.

I have rigged up spring lines that run above the hatch to keep the longest part of the jack line centered.
The blue dots are where I clip on in the cockpit and to move forward.

You can see it in action here.
gary

Alan Gomes · 2026-07-30T06:00:35-0700

colemj said:
For retrieval, long low sugar scoop sterns make this a non-issue.

Except for when the boat is pitching like a bucking bronco and risks cracking open the skull of the poor slob you are trying to retrieve!

thinwater · 2026-07-30T09:56:40-0700

It's been posted that most readers have never used tethers when it mattered. That could be true, for the way they sail. My expereince has been different (trimaran and cruising cat). Let me share some examples. Some may resonate, some won't.

Testing sea anchors and drogues in gale conditions and under power plus sails. No, I didn't need a harness, but you are working at the rail with heavy things and high loads, and things can go wrong quickly. That said, many times the lifeline gates were open and I would lean on the tether so that I could work with both hands (two feet plus a tether makes a triangle).
Same, testing anchors.
Fishing. On my tri, the outrigger lines rigged from the amas are spooky to get to when wet. You need two hands. On my cat, trolling, sometimes the fish were big. Youtube is full of recreational and commercial fishermen going over. Trolling, yes, landing big fish, if it's rough. Do you really want to swim through ~ 8-10 lures with hooks on them? Ouch. Anchored or drift fishing fishing for little fish, of course not.
MOB recovery. I once picked up a panicked jetskier. She really tried to pull me off, even though the weather was mild, and I was glad to be clipped in. It gave me a lot more power (she should have just used the ladder, but her brain had shut down). In serious weather, recovering any MOB tethers are mandatory. You may feel safe, but it is your responsibility not become another victim and complicate things. The MOB does NOT need to be off your boat for it to be your responsibility.
Dinghy on davits comes loose. I had one drop half in the water (shackle fatigued) with the chute up. The solution was to walk down the sugar scoop, attach a line to the painter, and then cut it loose completely, so that it towed. Without a tether this would be stupid dangerous. With a tether it was quite easy. (I was singlehanded.)
Putting in a third reef in gale conditions. The third reef is seldom led to the cockpit and must be managed at the mast. It's a good bet the motion will lively, and you need two hands.
Many minor repairs or rigging tasks underway that could be done without a tether (I can't remember how many), but with a tether you have two hands and something to lean against. It's just easier and completely casual.

If the question is, have I ever taken a fall where the tether, surprisingly, saved my life ... no. If the question is, have I even been in a position where without a tether I would have fallen in, many times. I lean on them. As a lifelong climber, I really don't take falls unexpectedly. I've slid across a tramp and been caught by a tether a few times, but it wasn't really a surprise and I would not have just been sitting there doing my work, without a tether that was 100% trustworthy. I look at tethers as a catagory of handholds.

(I went climbing this morning. Took a few falls. Managed a few climbs I know I struggled with when I was 25. I would not consider any of that a near-miss, just good fun. This, of course, is why I am emphatic that safety rigging must be 1005, no question, reliable. [I'm over 65 BTW])

colemj · 2026-07-30T10:20:21-0700

Alan Gomes said:
Except for when the boat is pitching like a bucking bronco and risks cracking open the skull of the poor slob you are trying to retrieve!

Our boat has long hulls with pretty straight rocker and 7" transoms. Turned off the wind, there is no pitching or hobby horsing. Even turned into the wind, this is minimal enough to safely bring a person on to it in pretty much any conditions.

Mark

Alan Gomes · 2026-07-30T10:21:49-0700

colemj said:
Our boat has long hulls with pretty straight rocker and 7" transoms. Turned off the wind, there is no pitching or hobby horsing. Even turned into the wind, this is minimal enough to safely bring a person on to it in pretty much any conditions.

Mark

I was thinking primarily of monohulls, who also sport these.

JBP-PA · 2026-07-30T12:04:06-0700

My jacklines run from the mast to either side of the companionway hatch, and are TIGHT. I use them all the time when I'm single handing. They provide an extra handhold while going forward, I have a short tether clipped, but that I also hold on to and it slides along with me. There is no way to know just how many times they might have saved me because when a surprise wave hits or my footing slips, it is a non- event. I rarely stop and think, "Wow, I might have gone overboard if not for my tether.", but it is absolutely true.

I skimmed the video, but it seems to be just about being dragged. If you are being dragged, your tether design has already failed. Tethers should be designed to keep you on the boat.

thinwater · 2026-07-30T12:36:10-0700

There is no up-side in having jacklines very tight, unless that is needed to keep them where they need to be. specifically, if made of a low-stretch material like Dyneema or SS, the tight-rope force on a tight line is huge. Even with polyester, the end-to-end tension is about 5 times the side load, meaning a 400-pound catch puts 2000 pounds on the line with polyester, and about 4000 pounds with Amsteel. After allowing for UV and construction weakening, that's a lot. Just sayin'. Now you know why jacklines must be so strong. They can and have broken just catching a good slide.

JBP-PA · 2026-07-30T13:33:04-0700

Ok, they are not that tight, hand tight, but they are not floppy like some people have. Tight enough to be a reliable handhold. Also they are nylon webbing of obscenely overkill strength.

Stu Jackson · 2026-07-30T19:57:39-0700

kappykaplan said:
As @Stu Jackson is fond of saying, treat the deck edge as a 500 ft cliff. Don't fall off!!

I agree.

I did use webbing jacklines and a double and short tether. Maybe twice in 28 years with this boat, no reason to for the prior 15 years on our C22 and C25. Singlehand 95% of the time. My boat is practical and the dodger has safety handrails which should be mandatory for everybody with a dodger, and I rarely went out of the cockpit when the boat was under sail.

thinwater · 2026-07-31T04:56:02-0700

JBP-PA said:
Ok, they are not that tight, hand tight, but they are not floppy like some people have. Tight enough to be a reliable handhold. Also they are nylon webbing of obscenely overkill strength.

If they are climbing webbing (1" tubular), the BS is 4000 pounds vs. the World Sailing requirement of 5000 pounds. They work because the stretch is greater and thus the actual impact force is lower. Nylon will not work on large boats because the stretch is too great, but on a 23' boat the stretch is not too great. As you say, keep nylon snug.

dLj · 2026-07-31T06:21:36-0700

You can get high strength dyneema webbing from McMaster - 1" wide rated at 7000 pounds breaking strength. It's not cheap but dyneema is UV resistant, salt water resistant and is considered abrasion resistant. If you set it up running longitudinally on your boat then the lack of stretch is not a problem. The geometry gives enough shock absorption coupled with your tether itself to not be a problem.

I am a firm believer in having everyone on board walk through how to move around on the boat tethered in before shoving off. I've yet to see a boat with a "perfect" tether system where you don't have to switch connection points at some point. Walking through the whole system usually a couple times working out all the details of where you do what I consider very useful. I also test to make sure my tether system at no point allows me to be thrown outside of the lifelines at least at critical locations - especially working at the bow or mast. On my boat I have granny bars at the mast which are really nice but I've been on plenty of boats that don't have them.

It can take a lot of planning to get tethers placed to make their use both simple and such that you can't go over the lifelines.

In my opinion, it's especially critical for solo offshore sailors to have tether systems very well designed and built. All the electronic gizmos aren't doing much to keep you alive if you are more than 200 nm offshore. All they really do is make finding your dead body easier. The probability of another boat being close enough to reach you in time to save you is very small. At 200 NM offshore, it will take a minimum of 48 hours for SAR personnel to reach where you are. The probability of surviving for that time frame is extremely low, even less so if you are sailing in higher latitudes.

It seems to me that currently we spend a lot of time "shopping" for safety instead of designing and building for safety. I'm not opposed to all the electronic gizmos, but I feel the focus should be on designing and building a system, or systems, that simply keep you on the boat - and knowing how to use them.

In my opinion, the primary focus needs to be making sure nobody can fall off the boat. Get that down first, then work on the backup systems for the location of a MOB. It sure feels to me the focus today is flipped with "let's get all the electronic gizmos" - then let's talk about keeping people on the boat. Well at least we are talking about keeping people on the boat - although a bit superficially. However, the problem with going deeper than that is it becomes boat specific.

dj

colemj · 2026-07-31T10:18:37-0700

dLj said:
In my opinion, the primary focus needs to be making sure nobody can fall off the boat. Get that down first, then work on the backup systems for the location of a MOB. It sure feels to me the focus today is flipped with "let's get all the electronic gizmos" - then let's talk about keeping people on the boat. Well at least we are talking about keeping people on the boat - although a bit superficially. However, the problem with going deeper than that is it becomes boat specific.

I don't see this at all. Most of the cruisers making passages don't have "electronic gizmos" for MOB, and I've never been involved in a beach conversation about them (which is probably the ONLY electronics I've not had beach conversations about). It just isn't a focus with anyone I've met. I'm not sure what electronic gizmos even means outside of a PLB. Most of the old electronic systems like tags, etc have gone the way of the dodo. I think ACR still has one system, but I've never seen anyone with it.

But I don't view prioritizing physical restraints and electronics as first/second type things, anymore than I'd think of buying sails with a different priority than buying the rope that will go on them. Or making sure the dinghy I buy is setup and working before I buy the motor that goes on it.

On our boat, MOB is approached holistically. There was no prioritizing, or even thinking sequentially about, buying and installing grab rails, setting up a robust jackline system, buying vest/harnesses and dual length tethers, and buying DSC/AIS PLB's to install in them. Even the rule that both of us must be present if one leaves the cockpit is part of this.

Mark

LLoyd B · 2026-07-31T11:03:05-0700

thank you garymalmgren in your post #7
I have been trying to spell taut that way all my life and They keep telling me to spell it TIGHT and when I say no not that much, they tell me I should have been taught to explain myself better.

What are you doing for JACKLINES?

SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John

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