Wet Decks and Can they be dried out?

emergpa1 · Apr 5, 2010

PS. you can see some of the pics of the skin i cut out and the repairs i did in my photo album on my profile. it may explain what i mean.

BobM · Apr 5, 2010

Sorry to hear about your decks

I had to walk away from a Newport 30 with saturated decks. The poor surveyor couldn't FIND a dry spot to show me what his meter would read in a dry location. He said it was far and away the worst he ever saw. The owner had bought it from a guy who had added a TON of deck penetrations...and not sealed a single one correctly. I beleive the older N30's were cored with plywood. I think that proved to be a contributing factor, as that probably facilitated lateral water transport that perhaps you wouldn't get as rapidly with end grain balsa.

I felt very bad for the owner, who was no longer able to sail much, due to a bad back, and was selling his dream boat after many, many happy years. However, the cost of professional repair far exceeded the value of a 1979 N30 (if I recall he was asking about 10K) with an A4 and no wheel steering. I asked the broker, who also owned the marina, and he just shook his head. The only solution was essentially complete removal of the decks and recoring. It really wasn't worth even $5k to me even with the bags and bags of sails that went with her.

On the plus side for him, he decided to just keep it and sail it as much as he could over a few more years then he planned to donate it. On the plus side for me, my Wife concluded that I should spend twice as much so I could get a boat that wasn't an absolute disaster LOL.

You have the right idea. Get a meter and map it out. Pick an area per year and go to town. When you are done, paint the decks. She will be beautiful.

Steve Dion · Apr 5, 2010

I have seen boats that have had sections of decking removed, coring replaced and decking reseated. The final trick is to find a good glass guy to replace the decking after the coring has been removed and replaced and you will never know that anything was repaired.

Normally the deck are cut out with a skill saw in large pieces. Only cut deep enough to cut through the fiberglass. If you do this in an area where the fiberglass is smooth, it is much easier to repair.

kenn · Apr 5, 2010

emergpa1 said:
I had to remove the deck under my mast, as well as my pulpit and my chainplates. I drilled and suctioned and used acetone and heat lamps, in addition to the hot georgia sun. I could not get the deck to dry. Furthermore, all the holes i drilled made the out layer of fiberglass "skin" unusable for repair. The problem is two fold with the hole drilling to dry the core method.
1. It doesn't work very well.
2. It is not easy to get a good cosmetic result with all those little holes. If you haven't used epoxy to fill holes then you may not know, but the stuff is not like drywall putty or wood filler at all, it is very STICKY, and when you try to fill those wholes you cannot get a neat littlle patch, it smears eveywhere. so you have to fill the holes on the final pass with very thick epoxy higher that the hole, and then when it dries sand the area down. If it is on non-skid you end up with a smooth area which you have to match or ignore, then you gotta paint, or use gelcoat, and alot of other stuff. And all that work for a half-a...d repair.
It ended up being way easier to cut out the skin, and repair the core using appropriate technique.
BTW pics of the damaged area would be great
Keith

we had a bit of balsa core rot on our cockpit floor, due to water under the cockpit and a fairly pitiful FG skin under the cockpit floor. I had removed all the wet foam under the cockpit in 2008, and after a long dry winter, the cockpit core had pretty much dried out. I put a new epoxy/fg layer under the cockpit to seal the underside, then I drilled several access holes from the topside. I poured in some EAST epoxy into the holes, since it's runnier than the basic WEST, and it seemed to penetrate into the bad parts of the core. I finished off the holes by drilling slightly into the hardened epoxy, then dripping gelcoat in. Yes they're pure white dots with no pattern, but being in the cockpit it doesn't bother me much. I could have mixed the right colour, I suppose.

Practical Boat Owner (british mag) had an interesting article last year on how to recore an entire deck area. They basically cut out complete non-skid-patterned sections from the top, scraped out the old core, epoxied some new core in place, then epoxied the removed sections back in. The epoxied joints were sanded and faired, then a layer of matched gelcoat was applied. Done carefully, the repairs can be invisible, and although extensive, the work didn't look all that tricky.

Jumpstart · Apr 5, 2010

Here is the progress on my cockpit core replace. Final layers of glass and gelcoat this week. Core is now plywood, balsa, and solid glass in penetration areas. Glass in center is 1" thick. My steering pedestal won't being going anywhere soon. Interestingly, it is a Cinkel unit, and the chain drive is double the size of a comparable Edson unit.

I doubt that the plywood core would have ever dried out. The balsa was only slightly wet in spots. The underlying layers of glass and the deck skin were actually sufficient to support the pedestal and flex slightly. Surprisingly there were no gelcoat cracks. Thankfully, I had a good surveyor.

Maine Sail · Apr 5, 2010

steven685 said:
Kenn, Jude, and Dion,

thanks for the advise. I am certain that I can do this I have done more then my fair share of fiberglass finish work. I am the best man for the job. it will be as seemless as possible. I am prepared to cut into the deck just enough to get the top skin off and remove it so that i can clean out the core. i am planning to install foam of a sort similar to Airex unless you all have any better ideas. I am keeping the top skin and planning on replacing it. thank all of you for both your encouragement and advise as I might not have gone forward without your support. Steven from OOB, ME.

Steven,

While it seems like a good idea to re-use the top skin it usually is not. Re-laminating a new top skin is actually easier.

sailingdog · Apr 5, 2010

For decks I generally recommend Divinylcell rather than Airex. Airex is a ductile foam where Divinylcell is a rigid foam. Rigid foams are generally better suited to large flat expanses than ductile foams, and tend to deform less under heat. This is especially important if using an epoxy resin for the repair job.

steven685 said:
Kenn, Jude, and Dion,

thanks for the advise. I am certain that I can do this I have done more then my fair share of fiberglass finish work. I am the best man for the job. it will be as seemless as possible. I am prepared to cut into the deck just enough to get the top skin off and remove it so that i can clean out the core. i am planning to install foam of a sort similar to Airex unless you all have any better ideas. I am keeping the top skin and planning on replacing it. thank all of you for both your encouragement and advise as I might not have gone forward without your support. Steven from OOB, ME.

Ross · Apr 5, 2010

sailingdog said:
For decks I generally recommend Divinylcell rather than Airex. Airex is a ductile foam where Divinylcell is a rigid foam. Rigid foams are generally better suited to large flat expanses than ductile foams, and tend to deform less under heat. This is especially important if using an epoxy resin for the repair job.

I am familiar with divinycell ,corecell and Airex core. Corecell and Airex core can't be distroyed by hand but divinylcell is friable and I wouldn't use it if it were given to me.

zeehag · Apr 6, 2010

being the boat is an ericson i can tell you the core is end grain balsa--yipes--rots fast --replacement of it is probably the best way to go ---i injected mine----but one problem is probably the mast step--there is an aluminum dish needing replacement and makes the deck swell and channels into wet interior---merely repairing the wet core wont help the problem except to hide it until the next rain....gooodluck....

Ross · Apr 6, 2010

Re: what is the dish?

It is for the foot of the mast to slip over and stand on the rim.

Maine Sail · Apr 6, 2010

Ross said:
It is for the foot of the mast to slip over and stand on the rim.

Ross,

Some builders laminated aluminum into the decks in high load areas. Catalina does this on their current boats. IMHO this is bad practice as aluminum needs to be exposed to oxygen to form a protective oxide layer and not suffer poltice corrosion when in contact with water.

If the deck leaks, and the aluminum gets wet, and is devoid of oxygen, it begins to suffer poltice corrosion and corrode. When it corrodes it can expand and bulge the deck.

Solid glass would have been a much better idea but is considerably more expensive than some plate aluminum...

Ross · Apr 6, 2010

Thanks, Mainesail, The aluminum step on my Islander is a much like a little bolt down dog dish with a wide base. The cup is oval and fits inside the mast and is directly over the compression column.

emergpa1 · Apr 6, 2010

I destroyed my outer skin under my mast when i drilled holes in it, so i had to laminate my own. As you can see from the picture i was able to match it pretty good. but the non skid is gone from that area. I didn't go to all the trouble of making a template for the non skid.
However you decide to repair that area, be sure you make some acurate measurments of the curve of the cabin top at that area if there is one. One thing i like about reusing the skin is that it will maintian the original curvature somewhat. If you decide to laminate your own, then save it as some sort of mold or template for your final product.
It is a time consuming but fun (to me) project to repair a fiberglass deck. And you will polish your repair skills. For example, this past weekend when i towed my boat to the yard to lift for bottom paint, i had a large crack in the hull amidships. I think my boat had been on the trailer to long and slipped during the haul. In any event, the repair didn't intimidate me at all. I ground it out, laminated it back, faired it smooth, and applied bottom paint. No big deal. The only set back was a day delay as the epoxy kicked
....sorta proud of myself! lol
keith

zeehag · Apr 6, 2010

steven685 said:
You raise a good question. I have always wondered if Ericson put end grain balsa under the Mast Step? It seems like a no brainer to me they should have but solid FG. But what are you taking about? An Aluminum dish? And if there is an aluminum part under the step and between the skins in the sandwich why does it need to be replaced? Is it locked somewhere else? What is its purpose? Inquiring minds want to know the dish is with the aluminum dish?

SB

i believe the under mast is also end grain balsa under the dish and between the compression post and dish...lol....i didnt take mine down yet--needs it---the balsa does take injection well---if the mast is raised and the work done without haulout or total removal of mast from crane, is less money to replace--i was quoted 1925.00 neighborhood with all the materials in the ready to go- -the re glassing is doable after the work on mast step is finished--gooodluck---water somehow gets into the area and makes decks crack due to swelling of the aluminum as it oxidizes...and a track is created for the incoming water to go into interior of boat--i thought mine was from the fittings in deck but was the mast step--always flows downhill......

Wet Decks and Can they be dried out?

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