Westerbeke W20B Won't Start

[bawlmer]

Fellow Sailors. My Westerbeke W20B would not start yesterday. I did the obvious and changed out the Racor and made sure the air was out of the device. I checked the ball valve on the tank side of the filter. All good. Fuel is clean. Engine would not start. Today I changed the secondary filter on the engine and made sure the lift pump was pushing fuel to it before closing the secondary filter housing. Prior to replacing the secondary filter the lift pump was "clacking" for lack of a better description. That is not the standard sound for that pump. After replacing the secondary filter the "clacking" subsided and I thought I had solved the problem. I tried to start the engine and still nothing. Like an idiot I forgot to re-open the fuel valve at the tank. After re-opening the valve the "clacking" returned to the lift pump. The engine never started. I don't know if the changing sounds of the lift pump even matter, but they are symptoms.
At this point it appears the fuel is at least getting past the secondary filter. Westerbeke advertises this engine as self bleeding and it really is. I was self bleeding it for half and hour today to no avail. I am hoping someone has seen this before and has a suggestion or other wisdom. I know if I call a mechanic it will be a four figure bill right out of the gate. Thanks very much.

 

[NYSail]

I would open each injector I’m sequence and bleed. How are the glow
Plugs? My first boat had a westerner and would not start without the glow
Plug heating......

 

[bawlmer]

Glow plugs and lift pump are good. There is a flaky circuit that connects the low oil switch to the lift pump. I jumped that out just to make sure. I decided I was not going to tear into the injector pump or injectors. I opened the fuel line to the input of the injector pump and fuel was flowing when the lift pump was on. At that point I called the mechanic. The good news is he said Westerbekes rarely have serious injector problems and it is probably something simple. He will work on it Thursday. He comes very highly recommended and has a good reputation. Fingers crossed.

 

[jviss]

Here's a simple thing that has prevented my diesels from starting on occasion: I had forgotten to push the "stop" cable all the way back in the last time I had pulled it to stop the engine.

Mine didn't have fuel solenoids, they had a simple lever on the injector pump that is pulled to shut off the fuel supply to stop the engine.

I would check the cable, if you have one. If not, check the fuel cutoff solenoid.

 

[bawlmer]

Yup. I checked the engine side of the fuel shut off cable and everything was in the correct position.

 

[bawlmer]

Well I called the mechanic a week ago and he has not shown up yet. I am going to buy some wrenches at Harbor Freight tomorrow so I can loosen the injector lines and see if fuel is flowing from the injector pump. I am also looking for an injector rebuilding shop in case I need one. I hope that I do not.

 

[jviss]

Well I called the mechanic a week ago and he has not shown up yet. I am going to buy some wrenches at Harbor Freight tomorrow so I can loosen the injector lines and see if fuel is flowing from the injector pump. I am also looking for an injector rebuilding shop in case I need one. I hope that I do not.

There's a type of wrench called a flare nut wrench that is very useful for working on injector systems. You can get an inexpensive set at Harbor Freight.

As for rebuilding, you can purchase new injectors through an agricultural supply place for less than the cost of rebuilding. You might have to take one out to read the model number off it. I've done this with a Universal M25.

 

[bawlmer]

OK. I disconnected the feed lines from each injector and cranked the motor for about 30 seconds. I attached a sandwich bag to each feedline. One of the bags got about 1/16 full and the other only produced drips.
I want to go back to the lift pump. I am getting fuel flow from it but I do not have enough experience to know if there is enough flow to properly prime the injection pump. How much fuel is the lift pump supposed to move? Presently it makes fuel flow. but not squirt, out of a 1/4" ID fuel line. Is this enough? What makes me keep coming back to the lift pump is that it is making a different noise than it usually makes. The noise is a "clacking" sound rather than the "squeaking" sound it normally makes. I do not know what the output of a properly functioning lift pump is supposed to be so I am stuck. All wisdom is greatly appreciated.

 

[SycloneDriver]

I guessing that you have a small square Facet style pump. Free flow should be 15 gph or 7gph at 1 psi. So some where between 30 - 15 ounces per minute. If you can get 10 ounces per minute at the injector pump that should be more than enough. You may also want to check the output pressure. If you don't have a pressure gauge you can try using gravity. Should be able to pump diesel 6 ft above the level in the fuel tank or a min. of about 2 psi. This is a guess.

 

[JoeWhite]

I use the original lift pump that I replaced to transfer 5 gal of diesel to the fuel tank. It takes 15 minutes to transfer the 5 gallon. So 3 minutes per gallon or 40 Oz per minute.

 

[bawlmer]

Thanks very much for your replies. From these responses it looks like my lift pump may be deficient or close to it. It is a square Facet type pump. From the internet there are many prices from $200+ (Westerbeke OEM) down to $60 from a racing supply house. Also Westerbeke tech support came back with some tips about jumping out the oil pressure and temp sensors which I will also revisit. I won't be able to get to the boat for a while but I have some more stuff to look at. Thanks again for the help and I will report back with my progress or lack thereof.

 

[bawlmer]

I ordered a replacement pump today. It will be here next week. I will replace it and we will see what happens.

 

[bawlmer]

Well I now have a new lift pump. Other than that there is no change. I can't see how this could be anything other than the injection pump, Which is well beyond my skill level. I am going to call the mechanic again on Monday and see if he is ever going to show up. The remainder of this season doesn't look too good right now.

 

[SycloneDriver]

Anyone have a good guide for bleeding the injectors

I have a Westerbeke 30B and I was told to bleed my injectors to see if I am getting fuel.The operators manuals I have show the injectors but dont show how to bleed them. Does anyone have a guide,(maybe with pictures) of how to bleed them. I dont want to take a possible minor problem and make it...

forums.sailboatowners.com

This might be helpful.

 

[SycloneDriver]

It's been my experience that the facet style electric fuel pumps will make some noise while priming or working against very little head pressure but as pressure builds they go almost silent. If your pump continues to make lots of noise it is probably not building any pressure.
Get a piece of clear vinyl hose and use it to do a volume test, it will also let you see if air is present.

 

[bawlmer]

If your pump continues to make lots of noise it is probably not building any pressure.

Agreed. This is what gets me. Even the new pump is not making the correct sound. Fuel is flowing freely from the tank and through both filters. I managed to fill 2 gallon jugs full of fuel that got pumped to the engine. I know I am missing something. The clacking of the lift pump is definitely a symptom of of a fuel supply issue but there is nothing to confirm that. I am hoping the mechanic (If I can ever get him to show up) will find something stupid rather than have to rebuild the injector pump. I am ready to sell the stupid boat but I can't because it won't freaking run.

 

[SycloneDriver]

I'm not familiar with the W20B. Is it possible that there is a valve open that is returning all the fuel to the tank?

 

[SycloneDriver]

How did the engine start and run last time you used the boat?
How long ago was that?
When was the last time you put fuel in the boat?
Is it possible that someone accidentally put gasoline in the tank?
Boat in slip?

 

[bawlmer]

Boat is in its own slip and was fueled several months ago. The fuel was nice and clean when I changed the lift pump. I had to deal with about a gallon of it. The boat actually ran well the day before but started after the second try instead of the first. Engine started fine after it was warm. I just discovered a diesel can run on one cylinder for a while. For the last few years the engine ran rough for the first 10 seconds or so when it was started cold. I am guessing it was running on one cylinder during that time. It started perfectly when started for the rest of the day. I started looking again for any leaks or air holes in the fuel line. I cut out a small piece of the fuel line at the end that has a small tear in it caused by the clamp. I also turned the racor upside down and there was no air in it. As you said, the clacking of the lift pump indicates lack of fuel pressure but there does not seem to be any other indication of that at all.

 

[SycloneDriver]

I'm wondering if the internal linkage to the injection pump is damaged or maybe a regulator spring has failed. It could be the injection pump, but there are other WxxB threads where the pump and injectors where replace and it did not fix the issue. There is a good thread on sailnet but the owner has stopped posting.

How much throttle are you using while cranking?

You might try starting it on WD40. I would do this with someone else cranking the engine.