Weird Battery Charger Problem

[MaranaF]

Pitching in with my first post on here... Is the charger rated at continuos duty at the 4 or so amps you are demanding from it for the fridge plus all the other loads on it? But more importantly, the supply voltage might be low at your end of the pontoon. Here on my mooring we should have 240v (we are in the uk) but I rarely see more that 210v open circuit and that can drop below 200 when we load it up with a kettle to make a coffee. Our charger is a Victron Energy and is rated 30A and does not struggle as it is designed to operate with an input voltage from 90 or so upwards while maintaining it's output.

As a final check, after checking the above, would be to run a new temporary feed directly from the batteries to the fridge and see if the charger still overheats.

Stephen.

 

[LloydB]

"It works fine except when we run the refrigerator on shore power."?
does the frig only operate on 12VDC or is it ac/dc. What is the charger output current when the frig is off,on and overheat. Is the charger supposed to auto/shutdown at overheat? should the fan stay on anyway? Just trying to follow along as you get to the solution and i got lost at 'when the over temp lamp goes on the fan stops'. thx

 

[Sailor-man]

"It works fine except when we run the refrigerator on shore power."?
does the frig only operate on 12VDC or is it ac/dc. What is the charger output current when the frig is off,on and overheat. Is the charger supposed to auto/shutdown at overheat? should the fan stay on anyway? Just trying to follow along as you get to the solution and i got lost at 'when the over temp lamp goes on the fan stops'. thx

The refrigerator operates on 12v DC. I've run voltage and amp tests with the charger on and off. I'm seeing a slight voltage drop on the refrigerator when its on batteries; amps are the same whether on battery or charger. Start up it's drawing 3.5A and 2.6A after running for a while.

When the charger displays a warning that it's overheating, it doesn't shut down. What's odd is that the fan doesn't run when it's displaying this "warning". This is either by design or a problem with the charger. Xantrex hasn't been able to confirm if it's supposed to run. I've asked them to look into this. The manual says the fan should run when it in "fault" mode but doesn't say anything about the fan running when it is displaying a "warning". I think it should. The other thing with my charger that I think is a problem is the fan appears to be running in a different direction than what the manual says. Hot air exits the air intake vent which is either another problem or an error in the manual. Have asked Xantrex to confirm.

 

[Sailor-man]

Pitching in with my first post on here... Is the charger rated at continuos duty at the 4 or so amps you are demanding from it for the fridge plus all the other loads on it? But more importantly, the supply voltage might be low at your end of the pontoon. Here on my mooring we should have 240v (we are in the uk) but I rarely see more that 210v open circuit and that can drop below 200 when we load it up with a kettle to make a coffee. Our charger is a Victron Energy and is rated 30A and does not struggle as it is designed to operate with an input voltage from 90 or so upwards while maintaining it's output.

As a final check, after checking the above, would be to run a new temporary feed directly from the batteries to the fridge and see if the charger still overheats.

Stephen.

Charger is rated at 40 amps so the 3.5 amps the refrigerator draws should't be a problem. I've tried running from a different AC outlet on the dock and installed a new power cord so don't think the AC source is an issue.

 

[Maine Sail]

Try disconnecting your battery temp sensor and see what happens.. Also keep in mind that if you mounted this to an area of your vessel that is exposed to sun on the opposite side of the hull it can get VERY, VERY hot. Our boat is light blue and I noted the temp of an internal hull section at 122F in 71F ambient air temp because that side of the hull was facing the sun. It melted a bug candle in the cabinet so I hit the inside of hull with my digital infrared thermometer. That type of temp would not agree well with a battery charger. Does it do this at night too?

 

[Andy1237]

I just experience a very similar issue with ProMarine IV Model 1230. I left charger on and frig on for several days. Seem like the 30 amp charger couldn't keep up and it sucked the batteries way down. It might be a lack of amps to the charger on the AC side but I tested it and it puts out 14.1 volts when not connected to the batteries. Voltage drops to 12.6 on the batteries. And click the frig on and voltage drops to 12.4 and continues to drop.

I read in my Alder/Barber manual that a start-up the frig takes 10 amps!! With the cabin real hot (94 deg) I figure the frig was running at startup mode constantly and zapped the batteries. (But they still hold a charge and the alternator puts 13.1 volt into the batteries

I temporary fixed it by "supplementing" the Pro Charge with a cheap discount store charger. Replace the batteries? or is the charger busted?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Try checking each and every electrical connection.

And each of your battery cells with a hydrometer.

 

[Bill Roosa]

99.44% of all electrical problems on boats is corroded connections.
The great Roosack predicts that if you clean your battery terminals and charger connections to the 3-way switch your problem will automagically disapear.
Try lythium grease on the terminal (generous mittenfull) to prolong the new connection.
I find that a rotary wire brush, drill and some vice grips to hole the wire ends is the easiest way to clean terminals.

 

[kloudie1]

Both chargers with the same symptom.. Check post #1, this thread.. Like Maine said.... First order of business is to determine if the system really is telling you the truth.. yes, they both could have the same defect, but usually that is unlikely..
Happy hunting !!

 

[MaranaF]

Charger is rated at 40 amps so the 3.5 amps the refrigerator draws should't be a problem. I've tried running from a different AC outlet on the dock and installed a new power cord so don't think the AC source is an issue.

OK, I would still want to know the line voltage coming on to the boat....

And as a diagnostic I would definitely wire the fridge directly to the battery as this takes out all the connections that could be causing a problem (even if you have checked them) and make sure EVERYTHING else is turned off or disconnected or you will never be quite sure the fridge is the issue.

I speak from experience... Once dealing with a adamant Sunseeker owner who insisted the motor controller for the hydraulic stabilisers was causing his audio system to malfunction I was able to isolate the two systems from everything else on the boat and run them happily together proving it was in fact a bad ground connection on a generator.

Stephen.

 

[MaranaF]

99.44% of all electrical problems on boats is corroded connections.
The great Roosack predicts that if you clean your battery terminals and charger connections to the 3-way switch your problem will automagically disapear.
Try lythium grease on the terminal (generous mittenfull) to prolong the new connection.
I find that a rotary wire brush, drill and some vice grips to hole the wire ends is the easiest way to clean terminals.

BUMP! You can also try a sliver of stif card or coated printer paper (both are very fine sand paper) slid between the contacts, lightly press the contacts together and draw the paper out.

P.s. 79.86% Of statistics are made up.

 

[Sailor-man]

Hold on to your hats - Might have a solution!!!
Xantrex confirmed to me this morning that the fan on the bottom of the unit is an intake fan and not an exhaust fan.

On my unit hot air blows out of the intake vent suggesting the fan is operating as an exhaust fan. This may explain why the fan can't keep up with cooling the charger. On my unit after running the refrigerator for 30 mins or an hour some times the charger goes into overheat mode.

This is my second charger. The first one the fan never even started. This one it runs but in the wrong direction.

Question now is whether there are a bunch of chargers simlarly impacted or if mine an isolated case. I was planning to seek an over-the-counter replacement, but if there are a bunch of units impacted, finding one that works properly might be a problem.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

my charger (same as yours) sucks air in, it's not an exhaust fan and has worked fine for years (so far...)

 

[SEMIJim]

Hold on to your hats - Might have a solution!!!
Xantrex confirmed to me this morning that the fan on the bottom of the unit is an intake fan and not an exhaust fan.

On my unit hot air blows out of the intake vent suggesting the fan is operating as an exhaust fan. This may explain why the fan can't keep up with cooling the charger.

Whether it's supposed to be an intake or exhaust fan by design: I can tell you, from personal experience, that either one trying to fight the natural flow of hot air will not be very effective.

Sounds like you may've found the culprit. The remaining question I'd have is why does the fan shut off when the overheat indicator comes on?

This is beginning to sound like a poorly-designed, poorly-engineered, poorly-crafted, or some combination of the three, product.

Jim

 

[Sailor-man]

Xantrex is sending me a new unit ... will report back once it's in and installed. Feel like I'm finally getting some where.

 

[Sailor-man]

Xantrex is sending me a new unit ... will report back once it's in and installed. Feel like I'm finally getting some where.

Here's the news; In a nutshell, the problem continues.

New Xantrex TrueCharge2 arrived on Friday from the factory and was installed today. The installer let it run with the fridge, lights and instruments off charging the batteries and everything looked good. However, with the refrigerator on and drawing < 3 amps (showing 10% output on the charger) after about 20 mins or so it started flashing high charger temperature warning. I sat beside the charger and the fan didn't come on once to try to cool the unit. As the unit gradually warmed up the fan remained off the whole time including when it signalled the high temperature warning.

I turned the charger off and let the refrigerator and navigation instruments run off batteries for about 30 mins. During this time the refrigerator was cooling properly, cycling on and off a few times. (it draws 3.5A at start up and settles around 2.8/3.0A) when the compressor comes on.

After 30 mins, I turned the fridge off and turned the charger on again with some lights on in the boat. The fan immediately came on for 10 mins or so, so the fan does work and its blowing the right direction. The charge light on the unit was displayed and the remote panel indicated 20% charging output. After 10 mins or so the unit settled back into float stage. The fan stopped and unit indicated <5% output.

Next weird thing ... Plugged my Dell laptop power supply into an AC outlet in the boat. As usual the Dell power supply got quite warm charging the laptop. But with the Dell laptop plugged into AC and turned on, after about 30 mins the charger started flashing charger overheat warning. When I felt the charger it felt quite warm .. almost hot. Again fan is not running. So now with the refrigerator turned off, laptop power supply plugged in and laptop turned on, I get a similar charger overheat warning.

I checked and tightened the connections at the shorepower inlet on the boat where the shorepower comes into the boat. I thought a couple of the connections looked a bit suspicious. Nothing major but with a couple wires the insulation had crept into the connection so the connections might not have been making a perfect connection. I adjusted and tightened all the connections and fired up the charger again. The fan immediately came on and I loaded up with all the lights on, refrigerator on, my laptop AC power supply and an 110v electrical fan all on and running. The charger was running at 40% output and the fan was on. It ran like this for 30 mins without incident. I've turned all accessaries off now and left the refrigerator on. Will check it in an hour or so.

I had a couple of posts earlier that suggested a bad connection on the AC side might be the cause. The new issue of the my Dell Laptop causing the charger to heat up is another mystery. Any opinions welcomed.

One more update. I took some further voltage and amps testing with the charger on and fridge running. I found some AC voltage and current at the fridge which was a bit of a surprise. Any opinions welcomed.

 

[Stu Jackson]

From your report, it seems you tried the laptop first, then fixed the AC side, which seemed to have solved the issue.

Have you gone back and tried the laptop by itself again?

How'd you find AC on the fridge wiring?

 

[LloydB]

Ground fault.
What works best is to document your search of each circuit with specific meter readings. Documentation may seem somewhat anal however when a future problem occurs you will know normal for that circuit and connection.