We would like to purchase a GPS and am not sure what the difference is between a hand held GPS and a chart plotter. We will be sailing in San Diego harbor and surrounding waters with a few trips to Catalina Island and BA HA Mexico. We are worried about the fog also. We will be going to a bigger boat in a few years to Crouse so we do not want to spend a lot on electronics for our current boat but do need something to get us back safely. I have been reading the Practical Sailor reviews and am more confused than not. We would like to chart a course on our laptop and download it to the GPS. We do not care about land maps. Is the Raytheon 4000 autopilot that is on my 1983 30’ Catalina to old for the GPS to integrate with? I think I know the answer to that. We would like a color screen and big enough to read. About $500.00 to spend and the will spend some on extras. Any one have any thoughts? Thanks Chip
- Status
My solution (NOT cheap)
Chip... I'm in the same situation you are (you weren't frightened by that little marine layer we had in San Diego the past few days were you?!?!?!)
(I had to sail through it from Mission Bay to San Diego on Sunday....sunny and clear in MB, 1/4 mile vis. in fog by the time I rounded Pt. Loma....!) As I understand it, a GPS simply provides lattitude and longitude coordinates as well as speed and a few other items. A chart plotter has electronic charts on a display that allows you to view charted obstacles, depth, bouys/markers, etc. Handheld GPS's are cost effective (as a backup), but I wouldn't skimp on a main GPS for the boat. As to the fog, you need radar to safely run in fog. I am installing a Raymarine color GPS/Chartplotter/Radar unit on my Cat '30. The entire system was a little over $2400, but I figure it's a safety thing. When I ugrade my boat, I'll reinstall the old Garmin GPS/chartplotter that is on it now and take the new color system with me. Where is your boat in San Diego? I'm at Harbor Island. Fair winds! Jim S/V Jimmy Dreams
Chip... I'm in the same situation you are (you weren't frightened by that little marine layer we had in San Diego the past few days were you?!?!?!)
(I had to sail through it from Mission Bay to San Diego on Sunday....sunny and clear in MB, 1/4 mile vis. in fog by the time I rounded Pt. Loma....!) As I understand it, a GPS simply provides lattitude and longitude coordinates as well as speed and a few other items. A chart plotter has electronic charts on a display that allows you to view charted obstacles, depth, bouys/markers, etc. Handheld GPS's are cost effective (as a backup), but I wouldn't skimp on a main GPS for the boat. As to the fog, you need radar to safely run in fog. I am installing a Raymarine color GPS/Chartplotter/Radar unit on my Cat '30. The entire system was a little over $2400, but I figure it's a safety thing. When I ugrade my boat, I'll reinstall the old Garmin GPS/chartplotter that is on it now and take the new color system with me. Where is your boat in San Diego? I'm at Harbor Island. Fair winds! Jim S/V Jimmy Dreamsthe difference is about $1000.00
Chip the first diffence is between the two is about $1000.00. The second is the size of the screen. You can buy a maping hand held GPS that has about an 1 1/2 inch screen for about 450. I like the actual chart plotter as you can intergrate with the various instruments on the boat such as your lap top, depth and auto pilot on a hand held you can not. Now I have and love the Garmin units but others are just as good. I have a cat 22 and just this year put a garmin 210c color chart plotter in the boat. It has map chips and is intergratable with all the instruments. Many that i do not even have. My thought has always been I over kill when I buy for the boat becasue I have every intention of taking everything with me when I move up in size. Why buy something that is great for a 22 when I can spend a little more and be ready for the next boat. My first GPS was a garmin etrex mariner. It is down loadable to have all the sea markers for my area and does a great job but is not a mapping gps. I now use it for the back up and will place it in the ditch bag when i have a larger boat. So my thought is buy the best you can now with the plan to take it with you and if you start small like I did stay with the same brand so that you learn how they work, as like garmin they work the same but with more features so I was already 1/2 way there to understanding the new unit . Herb
Chip the first diffence is between the two is about $1000.00. The second is the size of the screen. You can buy a maping hand held GPS that has about an 1 1/2 inch screen for about 450. I like the actual chart plotter as you can intergrate with the various instruments on the boat such as your lap top, depth and auto pilot on a hand held you can not. Now I have and love the Garmin units but others are just as good. I have a cat 22 and just this year put a garmin 210c color chart plotter in the boat. It has map chips and is intergratable with all the instruments. Many that i do not even have. My thought has always been I over kill when I buy for the boat becasue I have every intention of taking everything with me when I move up in size. Why buy something that is great for a 22 when I can spend a little more and be ready for the next boat. My first GPS was a garmin etrex mariner. It is down loadable to have all the sea markers for my area and does a great job but is not a mapping gps. I now use it for the back up and will place it in the ditch bag when i have a larger boat. So my thought is buy the best you can now with the plan to take it with you and if you start small like I did stay with the same brand so that you learn how they work, as like garmin they work the same but with more features so I was already 1/2 way there to understanding the new unit . Herb
Go with the handheld
I have to admit first off that my new (used) boat comes fully tricked out with chart plotter and integrated radar but when we were shopping for a new new boat we would have gone with a reliable handheld for a couple of reasons. First of course is price, of the plotter and the electronic chart. Second though is safety. I feel a reliance on a plotter gives one the false sense of security in the underlying accuracy of the map. You see a just submerged rock on the chart and your position relative to it and think you can sneak by it by a few feet. WRONG! The chart dataum can very easily be off and your GPS position can be off as well. In my book it's better not to fool oneself into believing that you know your precise position and to keep well clear of potential threats to you boat and safety. Charts make me nervous which is why I like them. Also, for me at least, part of the enjoyment of sailing is that it is difficult. Learning dead reckoning, chart reading and coastal navigation is part of that. Eric
I have to admit first off that my new (used) boat comes fully tricked out with chart plotter and integrated radar but when we were shopping for a new new boat we would have gone with a reliable handheld for a couple of reasons. First of course is price, of the plotter and the electronic chart. Second though is safety. I feel a reliance on a plotter gives one the false sense of security in the underlying accuracy of the map. You see a just submerged rock on the chart and your position relative to it and think you can sneak by it by a few feet. WRONG! The chart dataum can very easily be off and your GPS position can be off as well. In my book it's better not to fool oneself into believing that you know your precise position and to keep well clear of potential threats to you boat and safety. Charts make me nervous which is why I like them. Also, for me at least, part of the enjoyment of sailing is that it is difficult. Learning dead reckoning, chart reading and coastal navigation is part of that. Eric
OK this one (GPSmap 276C ) is a $100.00 more
than the $500.00 is was willing to spend but is portable and has a bigger screen. I thought the GPS would show your position on the screen and so in the fog it would help navigate into the harbor in the fog. A blinking mark that is us seemed it would help get back as would bread crumbs. I am thinking in three years the electronics will probably be old. I am yes scared of the fog at this time as my sailing skill is not that good. Jim what did you use to get into San Diego Harbor from Mission Bay? That was some beautiful landscape and I saw a US Navy LSD ship coming in the harbor through the fog which was another what if I saw that in the fog with me. My wife is a partner in this with me and I dam near drowned her on our first sail together in a Holder (we turtled) and she does not swim that good so she would not go out again until we got a bigger boat but that is another long story. We went out sailing last week and had a great time in San Diego harbor, 10 knot winds, Debbie (my wife) raised the main sail, unfurled the jib and did the sail trim and it was a lovely day, she also de-rigged. We need more of those days. Our 30’ Catalina is at Marina Cortez at Harbor Island G-14 and we will be there tonight and if the wind is not too strong we may go out. By the way our new cousins will be delivered to H&S yachts on Thursday. Let you know how they come out. I also just had two handles welded onto the top of my dodger at Benchmark on Shelter Island for $120.00 and he did a fine job. -CW
than the $500.00 is was willing to spend but is portable and has a bigger screen. I thought the GPS would show your position on the screen and so in the fog it would help navigate into the harbor in the fog. A blinking mark that is us seemed it would help get back as would bread crumbs. I am thinking in three years the electronics will probably be old. I am yes scared of the fog at this time as my sailing skill is not that good. Jim what did you use to get into San Diego Harbor from Mission Bay? That was some beautiful landscape and I saw a US Navy LSD ship coming in the harbor through the fog which was another what if I saw that in the fog with me. My wife is a partner in this with me and I dam near drowned her on our first sail together in a Holder (we turtled) and she does not swim that good so she would not go out again until we got a bigger boat but that is another long story. We went out sailing last week and had a great time in San Diego harbor, 10 knot winds, Debbie (my wife) raised the main sail, unfurled the jib and did the sail trim and it was a lovely day, she also de-rigged. We need more of those days. Our 30’ Catalina is at Marina Cortez at Harbor Island G-14 and we will be there tonight and if the wind is not too strong we may go out. By the way our new cousins will be delivered to H&S yachts on Thursday. Let you know how they come out. I also just had two handles welded onto the top of my dodger at Benchmark on Shelter Island for $120.00 and he did a fine job. -CW
I used my chartplotter
Chip... On Sunday, I sailed INTO the fog from sunny conditions. Visibility wasn't that bad for that long, so I was able to concentrate on scanning hard for other boats. As I rounded Pt. Loma, visibility increased to sunny skies again as I entered the harbor. While in the fog, I used my eyes and ears and the chartplotter to keep track of my position. Radar would have been VERY nice to have (but my unit isn't installed yet) I also wasn't happy using only the chartplotter for position...I would have prefered to have radar backup so I could 'see' Pt. Loma etc. It was a case of 'get-home-itis'...if I were planning on leaving SD that day, I wouldn't have gone without radar, but since I went from sunny to fog back to sunny, I wasn't THAT worried. Definitely concerned, but not worried. I'm over at Cabrillo Isle Marina on Harbor Island (F-22). I'll be down at the boat sometime this week getting it fully cleaned after this past weekend of use. Maybe we can get together and pop a cold one and share newbie stories one of these days. Jim
Chip... On Sunday, I sailed INTO the fog from sunny conditions. Visibility wasn't that bad for that long, so I was able to concentrate on scanning hard for other boats. As I rounded Pt. Loma, visibility increased to sunny skies again as I entered the harbor. While in the fog, I used my eyes and ears and the chartplotter to keep track of my position. Radar would have been VERY nice to have (but my unit isn't installed yet) I also wasn't happy using only the chartplotter for position...I would have prefered to have radar backup so I could 'see' Pt. Loma etc. It was a case of 'get-home-itis'...if I were planning on leaving SD that day, I wouldn't have gone without radar, but since I went from sunny to fog back to sunny, I wasn't THAT worried. Definitely concerned, but not worried. I'm over at Cabrillo Isle Marina on Harbor Island (F-22). I'll be down at the boat sometime this week getting it fully cleaned after this past weekend of use. Maybe we can get together and pop a cold one and share newbie stories one of these days. Jim
GPS
First off, I have to say that I have an old Garmin GPS-38 and a Raymarine GPS & Radar integrated with a chartplotter. I use that GPS-38 probably more than the fancy integrated system, though that chartplotter is comforting when the fog rolls in. Might I suggest that you read "GPS for Mariners," a new book by Robert Sweet that's now on the market (pub: International Marine - McGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-07-141075-9, $15.95). This gives an excellent treatment of how GPS works, how to use all the features generally available, interfacing with computers & other on-board systems, and guidance for selecting & purchasing (Chapter 5). The USCG Auxiliary has adopted this book as the recommended text for their GPS navigation short-courses. If considering a chartplotter, I might also suggest reading Nigel Calder's book "How to Read a Nautical Chart," (same publisher, ISBN 0-07-137615-1, $14.95). It goes into a lot of the little understood detail about what's really "underneath" the nice charts you look at. Always good to understand the limits of the survey data, the cartographer's skills, and the technology of storing/rendering the information. Good luck, --RonD
First off, I have to say that I have an old Garmin GPS-38 and a Raymarine GPS & Radar integrated with a chartplotter. I use that GPS-38 probably more than the fancy integrated system, though that chartplotter is comforting when the fog rolls in. Might I suggest that you read "GPS for Mariners," a new book by Robert Sweet that's now on the market (pub: International Marine - McGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-07-141075-9, $15.95). This gives an excellent treatment of how GPS works, how to use all the features generally available, interfacing with computers & other on-board systems, and guidance for selecting & purchasing (Chapter 5). The USCG Auxiliary has adopted this book as the recommended text for their GPS navigation short-courses. If considering a chartplotter, I might also suggest reading Nigel Calder's book "How to Read a Nautical Chart," (same publisher, ISBN 0-07-137615-1, $14.95). It goes into a lot of the little understood detail about what's really "underneath" the nice charts you look at. Always good to understand the limits of the survey data, the cartographer's skills, and the technology of storing/rendering the information. Good luck, --RonD
San Diego Fog Tuesday
I have old Garmin GPS III handheld which I would like to replace with 176C, which has now been replaced with 276C. Having a beautiful summer day type sail on Tuesday afternoon (w/ no GPS, loaned 1 out & didn't have back-up with me) when I saw the fog bank coming up from SD, headed back to port but was 5 miles offshore when the bank hit. Took a bearing on where I thought entrance was and held to it. Went from great weather to victory at sea in the fog. Hit the harbor entrance perfect and tried to act like I fully expected it, and not that I figured I'd hit one side or other and have to search using sound of breakers on breakwater (which sounded like freight train from 3 miles off, big surf). You guys try to keep your fog down south from now on Okay?
I have old Garmin GPS III handheld which I would like to replace with 176C, which has now been replaced with 276C. Having a beautiful summer day type sail on Tuesday afternoon (w/ no GPS, loaned 1 out & didn't have back-up with me) when I saw the fog bank coming up from SD, headed back to port but was 5 miles offshore when the bank hit. Took a bearing on where I thought entrance was and held to it. Went from great weather to victory at sea in the fog. Hit the harbor entrance perfect and tried to act like I fully expected it, and not that I figured I'd hit one side or other and have to search using sound of breakers on breakwater (which sounded like freight train from 3 miles off, big surf). You guys try to keep your fog down south from now on Okay?
now THAT'S funny!
Ted... Glad you made it look easy!!! Your story illustrates why I won't be comfortable until I have the radar installed AND a backup GPS on board just in case. Fog is cool on land. At sea, it's something else entirely.....!!! Jim S/V Jimmy Dreams
Ted... Glad you made it look easy!!! Your story illustrates why I won't be comfortable until I have the radar installed AND a backup GPS on board just in case. Fog is cool on land. At sea, it's something else entirely.....!!! Jim S/V Jimmy Dreams
Another Take On the subject
ONE MAN'S OPINION September 16, 1997 from Cruising World August 1995 I can no longer remain silent. At first I thought it was just a few eccentrics, but I am now afraid that I am beginning to see a pattern. I think that the final straw was the recent article I read on sailing in fog that said that if I didn't have a radar on my boat, perhaps I had misappropriated my boating budget. I must confess: I have no radar. Not only do I not have a radar, but I have no intentions of buying one. My new gear priorities list does not even contain this item. I must go on: I do not have a GPS. Can you imagine that I actually sail - even cruise - without one? There's more. I do not have roller furling. Yes, that's right. I actually have more than one jib and what is more, I have to hank it on - one hank at a time - every time I go sailing. Wait! When the wind is up and the seas build I actually go forward, on the top of the deck and - now get this - change to a different jib. Can you believe that anyone can be so primitive? More. My only electronics are a Loran (recently purchased), a speed/log, a depthsounder and a cheap VHF. Yes, I will admit it. My VHF is a low priced model! Furthermore, my electronics are not interlinked or whatever fancy jargon aficionados use to indicate that their electronics talk to each other. No, I do not have an anemometer. At times I can be caught standing on deck estimating the wind speed. I even go so far as to make sail changes based on the boat's sailing characteristics. I have never told anyone this, but I am ready to bare all: I don't have an apparent wind indicator. I am not lying. We use a piece of - I am so embarrassed - a piece of cassette tape tied to the shroud. I do believe it was from "Smurfs Do the Whitbread" or something like that. At any rate, we survive and make port without calling for assistance. We enjoy wonderful meals cooked on the Weber that hangs off the stern pulpit and corn on the cob cooked on, of all things, an alcohol stove. I could go on and on. By now you must have figured out that my boat is OLD (1973). Heaven forbid! It's hard to imagine that I could enjoy sailing under these abominable conditions, but the truth is that I am as addicted as the guy who has all the equipment. I am proud to say that my boat is not a marina queen - she lives on a mooring - from which it is easier to sail her. Her name is Trav'ler and I make sure she lives up to her name. We have lost sight of what this sport is all about. We have lost sight of nature, of ourselves, and our God, unless your God is powered by 12 volts. Mine is not. Once - and I remember this - an RDF was considered a luxury. I remember a trip in fog so thick (you know the cliché) and we made it home with nothing more than a compass, a depthsounder, a sumlog and a VHF. Once we even did a fog run without the sumlog, as it had broken. We just estimated our speed. I know my boat so well that I could estimate her speed within a fraction of a knot. What tremendous satisfaction there is in reaching your port using the true skills of a seaman. We often hear the lament of how nonsailors perceive our sport to be one that is reserved for the wealthy. Is it any wonder when we read articles about how we all should have radar, or how our latest mast project only cost $1,200? These are elitist statements made by people who know nothing about the lives most of us live. Sailing can be done safely and enjoyably on a budget and I feel it is about time that those of us who sail on a budget speak up. written by Joe Higgins Crystal Lake, Illinois *************** *************** Stu
ONE MAN'S OPINION September 16, 1997 from Cruising World August 1995 I can no longer remain silent. At first I thought it was just a few eccentrics, but I am now afraid that I am beginning to see a pattern. I think that the final straw was the recent article I read on sailing in fog that said that if I didn't have a radar on my boat, perhaps I had misappropriated my boating budget. I must confess: I have no radar. Not only do I not have a radar, but I have no intentions of buying one. My new gear priorities list does not even contain this item. I must go on: I do not have a GPS. Can you imagine that I actually sail - even cruise - without one? There's more. I do not have roller furling. Yes, that's right. I actually have more than one jib and what is more, I have to hank it on - one hank at a time - every time I go sailing. Wait! When the wind is up and the seas build I actually go forward, on the top of the deck and - now get this - change to a different jib. Can you believe that anyone can be so primitive? More. My only electronics are a Loran (recently purchased), a speed/log, a depthsounder and a cheap VHF. Yes, I will admit it. My VHF is a low priced model! Furthermore, my electronics are not interlinked or whatever fancy jargon aficionados use to indicate that their electronics talk to each other. No, I do not have an anemometer. At times I can be caught standing on deck estimating the wind speed. I even go so far as to make sail changes based on the boat's sailing characteristics. I have never told anyone this, but I am ready to bare all: I don't have an apparent wind indicator. I am not lying. We use a piece of - I am so embarrassed - a piece of cassette tape tied to the shroud. I do believe it was from "Smurfs Do the Whitbread" or something like that. At any rate, we survive and make port without calling for assistance. We enjoy wonderful meals cooked on the Weber that hangs off the stern pulpit and corn on the cob cooked on, of all things, an alcohol stove. I could go on and on. By now you must have figured out that my boat is OLD (1973). Heaven forbid! It's hard to imagine that I could enjoy sailing under these abominable conditions, but the truth is that I am as addicted as the guy who has all the equipment. I am proud to say that my boat is not a marina queen - she lives on a mooring - from which it is easier to sail her. Her name is Trav'ler and I make sure she lives up to her name. We have lost sight of what this sport is all about. We have lost sight of nature, of ourselves, and our God, unless your God is powered by 12 volts. Mine is not. Once - and I remember this - an RDF was considered a luxury. I remember a trip in fog so thick (you know the cliché) and we made it home with nothing more than a compass, a depthsounder, a sumlog and a VHF. Once we even did a fog run without the sumlog, as it had broken. We just estimated our speed. I know my boat so well that I could estimate her speed within a fraction of a knot. What tremendous satisfaction there is in reaching your port using the true skills of a seaman. We often hear the lament of how nonsailors perceive our sport to be one that is reserved for the wealthy. Is it any wonder when we read articles about how we all should have radar, or how our latest mast project only cost $1,200? These are elitist statements made by people who know nothing about the lives most of us live. Sailing can be done safely and enjoyably on a budget and I feel it is about time that those of us who sail on a budget speak up. written by Joe Higgins Crystal Lake, Illinois *************** *************** Stu
Another View on the Subject
I copied this a few years ago. Stu ******** ******** ONE MAN'S OPINION September 16, 1997 Cruising World August 1995 I can no longer remain silent. At first I thought it was just a few eccentrics, but I am now afraid that I am beginning to see a pattern. I think that the final straw was the recent article I read on sailing in fog that said that if I didn't have a radar on my boat, perhaps I had misappropriated my boating budget. I must confess: I have no radar. Not only do I not have a radar, but I have no intentions of buying one. My new gear priorities list does not even contain this item. I must go on: I do not have a GPS. Can you imagine that I actually sail - even cruise - without one? There's more. I do not have roller furling. Yes, that's right. I actually have more than one jib and what is more, I have to hank it on - one hank at a time - every time I go sailing. Wait! When the wind is up and the seas build I actually go forward, on the top of the deck and - now get this - change to a different jib. Can you believe that anyone can be so primitive? More. My only electronics are a Loran (recently purchased), a speed/log, a depthsounder and a cheap VHF. Yes, I will admit it. My VHF is a low priced model! Furthermore, my electronics are not interlinked or whatever fancy jargon aficionados use to indicate that their electronics talk to each other. No, I do not have an anemometer. At times I can be caught standing on deck estimating the wind speed. I even go so far as to make sail changes based on the boat's sailing characteristics. I have never told anyone this, but I am ready to bare all: I don't have an apparent wind indicator. I am not lying. We use a piece of - I am so embarrassed - a piece of cassette tape tied to the shroud. I do believe it was from "Smurfs Do the Whitbread" or something like that. At any rate, we survive and make port without calling for assistance. We enjoy wonderful meals cooked on the Weber that hangs off the stern pulpit and corn on the cob cooked on, of all things, an alcohol stove. I could go on and on. By now you must have figured out that my boat is OLD (1973). Heaven forbid! It's hard to imagine that I could enjoy sailing under these abominable conditions, but the truth is that I am as addicted as the guy who has all the equipment. I am proud to say that my boat is not a marina queen - she lives on a mooring - from which it is easier to sail her. Her name is Trav'ler and I make sure she lives up to her name. We have lost sight of what this sport is all about. We have lost sight of nature, of ourselves, and our God, unless your God is powered by 12 volts. Mine is not. Once - and I remember this - an RDF was considered a luxury. I remember a trip in fog so thick (you know the cliché) and we made it home with nothing more than a compass, a depthsounder, a sumlog and a VHF. Once we even did a fog run without the sumlog, as it had broken. We just estimated our speed. I know my boat so well that I could estimate her speed within a fraction of a knot. What tremendous satisfaction there is in reaching your port using the true skills of a seaman. We often hear the lament of how nonsailors perceive our sport to be one that is reserved for the wealthy. Is it any wonder when we read articles about how we all should have radar, or how our latest mast project only cost $1,200? These are elitist statements made by people who know nothing about the lives most of us live. Sailing can be done safely and enjoyably on a budget and I feel it is about time that those of us who sail on a budget speak up. Joe Higgins Crystal Lake, Illinois
I copied this a few years ago. Stu ******** ******** ONE MAN'S OPINION September 16, 1997 Cruising World August 1995 I can no longer remain silent. At first I thought it was just a few eccentrics, but I am now afraid that I am beginning to see a pattern. I think that the final straw was the recent article I read on sailing in fog that said that if I didn't have a radar on my boat, perhaps I had misappropriated my boating budget. I must confess: I have no radar. Not only do I not have a radar, but I have no intentions of buying one. My new gear priorities list does not even contain this item. I must go on: I do not have a GPS. Can you imagine that I actually sail - even cruise - without one? There's more. I do not have roller furling. Yes, that's right. I actually have more than one jib and what is more, I have to hank it on - one hank at a time - every time I go sailing. Wait! When the wind is up and the seas build I actually go forward, on the top of the deck and - now get this - change to a different jib. Can you believe that anyone can be so primitive? More. My only electronics are a Loran (recently purchased), a speed/log, a depthsounder and a cheap VHF. Yes, I will admit it. My VHF is a low priced model! Furthermore, my electronics are not interlinked or whatever fancy jargon aficionados use to indicate that their electronics talk to each other. No, I do not have an anemometer. At times I can be caught standing on deck estimating the wind speed. I even go so far as to make sail changes based on the boat's sailing characteristics. I have never told anyone this, but I am ready to bare all: I don't have an apparent wind indicator. I am not lying. We use a piece of - I am so embarrassed - a piece of cassette tape tied to the shroud. I do believe it was from "Smurfs Do the Whitbread" or something like that. At any rate, we survive and make port without calling for assistance. We enjoy wonderful meals cooked on the Weber that hangs off the stern pulpit and corn on the cob cooked on, of all things, an alcohol stove. I could go on and on. By now you must have figured out that my boat is OLD (1973). Heaven forbid! It's hard to imagine that I could enjoy sailing under these abominable conditions, but the truth is that I am as addicted as the guy who has all the equipment. I am proud to say that my boat is not a marina queen - she lives on a mooring - from which it is easier to sail her. Her name is Trav'ler and I make sure she lives up to her name. We have lost sight of what this sport is all about. We have lost sight of nature, of ourselves, and our God, unless your God is powered by 12 volts. Mine is not. Once - and I remember this - an RDF was considered a luxury. I remember a trip in fog so thick (you know the cliché) and we made it home with nothing more than a compass, a depthsounder, a sumlog and a VHF. Once we even did a fog run without the sumlog, as it had broken. We just estimated our speed. I know my boat so well that I could estimate her speed within a fraction of a knot. What tremendous satisfaction there is in reaching your port using the true skills of a seaman. We often hear the lament of how nonsailors perceive our sport to be one that is reserved for the wealthy. Is it any wonder when we read articles about how we all should have radar, or how our latest mast project only cost $1,200? These are elitist statements made by people who know nothing about the lives most of us live. Sailing can be done safely and enjoyably on a budget and I feel it is about time that those of us who sail on a budget speak up. Joe Higgins Crystal Lake, Illinois
Another view?
Well I think Mr. Higgins is a very good sailor. I like the fact that I have a 1994 Raytheon GPS control head, a 1994 RL9 Radar and VHF. Both the GPS and radar are integrated. I still have to use charts to find my position as there are no mapping capabilities for the GPS or radar. I have a Loran too but it's pretty much worthless now. I love my roller furling and would buy another unit if it broke. Having roller furling makes you no less a sailor. It's like saying "I have a tiller instead of a wheel so I am more of a sailor than you." I wonder what he thinks of self tailing winches. Mr Higgins should realize there have been advances in the ease of sailing navigation. I'm surprised he has a Loran instead of using a transit. I've met a bunch of old, crusty sailors who like their sailing experience to be difficult and pure. I like to enjoy my days sailing and if that means having a GPS and radar on board, so be it. A sailor should learn to navigate without GPS and radar. But by using them and increasing your safety at sea, makes everyone a little bit safer.
Well I think Mr. Higgins is a very good sailor. I like the fact that I have a 1994 Raytheon GPS control head, a 1994 RL9 Radar and VHF. Both the GPS and radar are integrated. I still have to use charts to find my position as there are no mapping capabilities for the GPS or radar. I have a Loran too but it's pretty much worthless now. I love my roller furling and would buy another unit if it broke. Having roller furling makes you no less a sailor. It's like saying "I have a tiller instead of a wheel so I am more of a sailor than you." I wonder what he thinks of self tailing winches. Mr Higgins should realize there have been advances in the ease of sailing navigation. I'm surprised he has a Loran instead of using a transit. I've met a bunch of old, crusty sailors who like their sailing experience to be difficult and pure. I like to enjoy my days sailing and if that means having a GPS and radar on board, so be it. A sailor should learn to navigate without GPS and radar. But by using them and increasing your safety at sea, makes everyone a little bit safer.
Another thought
I think the key is a phase that is big in aviation. Situational Awareness. If you are aware of your surroundings and aware of what your boat is doing, then you have a much better chance of being successful. The problem with all the new stuff is we tend to get lazy and don't practice sailing without it. Murphy says it will fail at the most inopportune time. Will you be ready? I have a radar, loran, handheld GPS and paper charts. They all have kept me out of trouble. I practice using them one at a time and together. But I still get the greatest satisfaction when they confirm my DR position.
I think the key is a phase that is big in aviation. Situational Awareness. If you are aware of your surroundings and aware of what your boat is doing, then you have a much better chance of being successful. The problem with all the new stuff is we tend to get lazy and don't practice sailing without it. Murphy says it will fail at the most inopportune time. Will you be ready? I have a radar, loran, handheld GPS and paper charts. They all have kept me out of trouble. I practice using them one at a time and together. But I still get the greatest satisfaction when they confirm my DR position.
Thanks Ron for the book information. I have
ordered both books (GPS for Mariners, How to Read a Nautical Chart). Also at Boats-US this Saturday at 11:00 am there will be a free class on how to read charts. I did learn in keel boat classes and it is fun. I will be at that class. -CW
ordered both books (GPS for Mariners, How to Read a Nautical Chart). Also at Boats-US this Saturday at 11:00 am there will be a free class on how to read charts. I did learn in keel boat classes and it is fun. I will be at that class. -CW
Obviously I skip the electronics somedays,
but I like having "redunancy", something besides myself that THINKS it knows where it is. I am a geezer, swore off boats 20 years ago after lifetime on water & moved to the mountains. Started sailing again ~ 1 year ago, Wheel Steering took about 3 days for me to adjust to from a tiller, love it. GPS, love it, roller furling, YEAH ! gimme more o' that, I can go up and change headsails anytime I want, but Why? I'm a cruiser. Diesel inboard instead of outboard, I stop at the fuel dock couple times a year. I went on a boat with inmast furling & I could live with that too, on a bigger boat then mine anyway, Dutchman works for what I've got. Took power boat class with a radar, I had difficulty understanding picture & operation completely but I can sure see the value. I know professional sailors who avoid running in fog like the plague even with electronics, and who can blame them. I was lucky I could get a bearing on land and knew the current before fog closed in, I hate running blind and we all have to sometimes cause it's not gonna stop us from going out why not take advantage of technology. One of the most difficult areas of "managing" people is overcoming their resistance to change, you might as well embrace it, recognize the good parts and use those that suit you. I learned to rappel on 1 inch Manila rope, sure wouldn't do that today. Sorry bout getting on the soapbox but I hate to see people doing things the hard way cause it's traditional.
but I like having "redunancy", something besides myself that THINKS it knows where it is. I am a geezer, swore off boats 20 years ago after lifetime on water & moved to the mountains. Started sailing again ~ 1 year ago, Wheel Steering took about 3 days for me to adjust to from a tiller, love it. GPS, love it, roller furling, YEAH ! gimme more o' that, I can go up and change headsails anytime I want, but Why? I'm a cruiser. Diesel inboard instead of outboard, I stop at the fuel dock couple times a year. I went on a boat with inmast furling & I could live with that too, on a bigger boat then mine anyway, Dutchman works for what I've got. Took power boat class with a radar, I had difficulty understanding picture & operation completely but I can sure see the value. I know professional sailors who avoid running in fog like the plague even with electronics, and who can blame them. I was lucky I could get a bearing on land and knew the current before fog closed in, I hate running blind and we all have to sometimes cause it's not gonna stop us from going out why not take advantage of technology. One of the most difficult areas of "managing" people is overcoming their resistance to change, you might as well embrace it, recognize the good parts and use those that suit you. I learned to rappel on 1 inch Manila rope, sure wouldn't do that today. Sorry bout getting on the soapbox but I hate to see people doing things the hard way cause it's traditional.
GPS will not avoid collisions in fog
GPS can steer a course, but will not avoid other ships. Radar helps with collision avoidance. We use GPS in Puget Sound along with radio contact to vessel traffic service (VTS) for crossing shipping lanes when visibility is low. VTS radar can see the typical mast hung radar reflector about 4 miles from the attenna, so it helps giving them an accurate position report from GPS. Transoceanic ships are virtually silent while the typical Bayliner can be heard long before it crosses your bow. By the time you hear a freighter, it's bearing down on your position.
GPS can steer a course, but will not avoid other ships. Radar helps with collision avoidance. We use GPS in Puget Sound along with radio contact to vessel traffic service (VTS) for crossing shipping lanes when visibility is low. VTS radar can see the typical mast hung radar reflector about 4 miles from the attenna, so it helps giving them an accurate position report from GPS. Transoceanic ships are virtually silent while the typical Bayliner can be heard long before it crosses your bow. By the time you hear a freighter, it's bearing down on your position.
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