Water in the Bilge

[Jimlad]

For the first time in 19 years I have water in the bilge of my 2005 H260.
Between the boat ramp and my mooring, about 2 miles, the well below the galley sink filled up with water about 2" deep whilst motoring at about 5 Knots. I have no idea how this occurred. I had filled the ballast tank as usual after launch. This is a first for me in 19 years.
I bailed out the water and noticed that the water eventually stopped flowing. At first it looked like it was coming through the fibreglass sole (floor)
I have taken the boat out thinking that the ballast tank had cracked. I have filled the ballast whilst the boat in on the trailer and noticed that if I fill it to the level of the vent hole in the companion way step, excess water comes out around the centreboard pivot. No water appeared in the well below the galley sink.
Then i filled the well below the sink with a couple of buckets of water with food dye and it disappeared quickly with no visible signs of where it was going. After parking the trailer on a hill the dyed water appeared around the bilge pump under the stern berth.
My problems are where did the initial ingress of water come from and when i come to winterize the boat will there be water trapped in the bilge that might freeze and cause untold damage?
I've checked the chamber underneath the forward V Berth. It is dry. All the storage compartments under the side berths are also dry. I can't believe how convoluted the bilge must be. There must be some water trapped somewhere that might freeze.
I hope someone can provide assistance.

 

[kloudie1]

Welcome to the forum, Jim! Lots of good info here especially in the parts labeled "Owner Resources" and other "click on" sections.
From your info, I would think that you are dealing with a rainwater leak that is accumulating between the liner and hull; that is just a guess .. Any through-deck penetration would be suspect, things like winch bases, cleats, locker hinges... etc.. Sometimes, having someone gently hose the deck down while you crawl around in the lockers and rear areas might show where the leak is.. Happy hunting and, again, Welcome.

 

[rgranger]

Probably rain water. If you are near salty water you could always go on another cruise and then taste the water in the bilge and see if it is salty or not. If not... then rain water.

@Crazy Dave Condon has often posted on a technique where he closes the boat up... then opens the companionway just a little and seals the crack with duct tape and a garbage bag,.... then pokes the end of a leaf blower or shop vac (in reverse) through the bag and pressurizes the cabin. Then start throwing buckets of soapy water on the boat. Bubbles will form anyplace you have a leak on deck.

 

[Jimlad]

Thanks for the input. The things that are baffling me are as follows
At launch the boat appeared dry but within an hour or so from launch, water was flowing into the well below the galley sink from below and eventually stopped overnight. I spent a worrying night hoping that the bilge pump might save the boat. It never kicked in. The pump area was still dry the next day. Obviously the pump is not at the lowest point in the bilge.
Now I know that a lot of water can hole up in the bilge without being visible around the pump, I am wondering what measures can be taken to dry the bilge before winter. I'm on the headwaters of the Columbia River and the lake freezes in winter. The boat is covered in winter to prevent snow build up and freeze/thaw issues.
I'll see if I can find the link to "Owner Resources"

 

[rgranger]

I had an H26.

I would get water on the floor of the head after sailing for a few hours. It was seeping from behind the headliner. The weird thing was that the water would show up several days after a rain. I went on deck and rebedded all stanchions and rope clutches in that area.... no JOY. It was a lot of work for nothing. It took me a long time to track it down (two years). Eventually I figured out it was the little rubber stops in the companion way slide (the groove).

Water would sit in the companionway hatch groove and over time find its way into the boat through the screw's hole. I put a drop of silicone in the screw hole and reset the stops. JOY!

Bottom line... water can travel a long way from the source before it finds its way out.

Just because it showed up under your galley does not mean that is where it started. Water leaks are a PITA. Try Crazy Dave's idea of pressurizing your boat and tossing soapy water over the deck. In the long run, it will save you much

 

[kloudie1]

To (maybe) get the water out for winter, try imitating motion of sailing while on the trailer.. Try tilting the trailer up and down, then jack up one side then the other. By iinspecting the bilge after each tilt, you could probably find where the water is hiding and if lucky fiind where it is originating.

 

[Jimlad]

After pumping out all the water I could with the boat parked on the hill yesterday , i thought that might do it. Well I towed it back to storage yard today which involved going up an even steeper hill and about a gallon more appeared around the bilge pump plus a small amount of water reappeared in the well under the galley sink. I can see I'm going to take the boat for a hilly drive at the end of the season!

 

[rgranger]

Did you have water in a water tank? Or are you using those bag things that Hunter likes to use under the galley?

 

[Jimlad]

I never commissioned the water tank. Too much trouble to protect it from freezing and then having to flush it for use. I've never come across any Hunter bags. I know for sure that the bilge was bone dry before launch. I had towed the boat up and down the hills from storage for several weeks before launch and there was no sign of water anywhere. The water appeared under the sink immediately after launch and motoring to the mooring. I just can't figure how it can appear and then disappear when I pour water into the well. All very odd.

 

[BobSail]

Welcome to the forum! I sailed my 260 on the Columbia near the other end. As was relayed earlier, Crazy Dave Condon is the master of all things 260 if he’s still reachable on this site. He was involved in the design, construction and sale of this model. The archives particular to this boat are also quite helpful.

I had a similar issue early on. The top of the ballast tank has places that can retain water, and it sits below the cabin floor, allowing undesired water to move about with boat movement. In my case, the source was a large bolt (1 1/16” socket) that holds the centerboard bracket inside the centerboard trunk. It worked loose from vibration and allowed water to seep up into the boat while under sail, where it landed atop the ballast tank and moved back and forth - including the galley cupboard floor. You can access this nut by removing the small plastic cover where the compression post passes through the floor. It was loose so I tightened it snug and stopped the water ingress. If that is the culprit, don’t overtighten as stripping out the bracket threads would be very involved to repair.

Good luck. There are many discussions and photos in the archives.

 

[cephius (Dave)]

For years my H260 had water where you describe, it was rain water. It stopped when I installed a canvas cover over the hatch, both the sliding and the lifting parts. This is a known leak on the H260 and this cover was available in the store, On a side note. Filling the water tank presses down the bow and helps you point! I had an electric water pump to drain it completely for winter storage.

 

[rgranger]

For years my H260 had water where you describe, it was rain water. It stopped when I installed a canvas cover over the hatch, both the sliding and the lifting parts. This is a known leak on the H260 and this cover was available in the store, On a side note. Filling the water tank presses down the bow and helps you point! I had an electric water pump to drain it completely for winter storage.

I got one of those covers from this site (SBO store). They are very nice and do what they are supposed to do. Here is a picture of one I snagged off the interweb. If you decide to get one (and I would) place a tennis ball about where I put the red arrow. That will let the water shed off during a rain.

 

[Jimlad]

As I said earlier, after 19 years of having a dry boat I was surprised to find water under the sink and it appeared to migrating through the fibreglass floor. I was convinced that the floor was also the top of the ballast tank so the water must have been coming from there. Maybe I'm being paranoid since I've never had water in the boat before. You sea going sailors have it differently.
I've seen pictures of the mould for the tank and it appears that the top of the tank is the same as the galley cupboard floor. Based on BobSail's comments. Maybe not.
I took a look at the compression post. The attached picture shows the Bolt securely encased in sealant and no visible sign of water. Bob, when you tightened up the bolt did you find it in this condition? Do you recall if the nut below the bracket is captive welded to prevent it from turning?
I'm still trying to figure how water was dripping out around the centreboard pivot under the hull when I filled the ballast tank up to the level of vent hole below the companion way step. Does anyone know if there is a vent hole near to the forward end of the ballast tank?
I have a Sunbrella hatch cover and live in a semi-arid climate so rain is never a problem. I can count on one hand the number of times I've found a trace of water on the cabin floor on the occasions that I haven't bothered to put the cover on.
Now that I do have water in the boat and hope that the summer heat will evaporate it, assuming there are no serious leaks I'm most concerned about the measures to take to winterize the bilge.

 

[BobSail]

I believe at least parts of the ballast tank are separate from the cabin floor. I've attached an image that I took looking forward from one of the aft berth inspection ports under the mattress. You can see the rib along the edge of the tank in the foreground, and the head discharge hose heading back to the holding tank. The bottom of the cabin floor is the unfinished fiberglass at the top of the image. You can also see multiple layers in the construction detail of the drawing you provided.

The centerboard bracket attachment nut is welded to the underside of the bracket, so it can't spin. Did you happen to buy your boat new? Mine did not have any caulk over the bolt head from the factory, but I've seen others that have it applied in that spot presumably in an attempt to stop water ingress. Unfortunately, it's applied on the wrong side of the leak. I just tightened mine up and the leak stopped and remained so for the last 16 years of use. I did not apply caulk in case I needed to retighten. You might take it out motoring with the inspection cover open and see if there is any water appearing.

I agree that a portion of the ballast tank top comprises a portion of the galley cabinet floor. The reason I had water under the sink is not due to the tank ballast leaking. In my case there is a hole in the corner of the cabinet at the floor level (far back right corner as you're looking in right cabinet door) for electrical cables to pass to the bilge pump and speed/depth transducers. When there was water in the bilge, boat movement would force some of it through the cable access hole and into the cabinet, which has a floor lower than the access hole.

I do not believe there is a second ballast tank vent hole. I always left a little space in the top of the step to avoid slop when filling (less than a pint I'm guessing). When my bolt was loose I was generating a few gallons of bilge water during a sail.

 

[Jimlad]

Thanks Bob. The beauty of cell phone cameras. You can get in everywhere. I've read a posting on this site from way back suggesting the same as you. We'll put the boat in next week go for a motor and watch for water coming in through the centreboard. Honestly I still believe I saw water migrating under the gel coat layer in galley cupboard floor.
The boat was 2 years old when I bought it. It had been sailed on a lake in Missouri. The small screw in the picture would lead me to believe that this was dropped at the factory and this was the first time the cover had been raised.
I'll let you know what happens.

 

[patbratton]

I haven't had water in the bilge for about a year. The two things that helped were the cover over the main hatch and the drop boards, and the cleaning of the seal for the window (under the right storage bin in the cockpit )and treating it with silicone oil.
A great deal of water gets under that hatch. It always requires cleaning. I have a battery powered portable bilge pump that I haven't had to use in over a year.