Water filter clarification...

[xavpil]

Hi all
Looking inside the water filter I just see one hole for the water to come in from the seacock, but no hole for the "cleaned" water to go to the water pump...
How does this work?

I am asking because I don't have water coming through the exhaust...
I checked the impeller and it is not broken or damaged...

 

[Davidasailor26]

The way those filters usually work is that water is diverted within them from the top of the housing down into the outer part of the filter body, through the filter from outside in, up the inside of the filter body, and out the outlet.

The output of that filter is probably below the waterline. You should be able to take the output hose off and get water into the boat. Hopefully there’s a seacock below the filter, even though I can’t see one. If not you really should have a seacock there. I’d be very reluctant to go touching anything around those plastic filter fitting or hoses, or having the boat in the water at all, without a seacock.

Where does that second hose go off to the right of the picture? The hose from the upper part of the T goes to the pump, but if that second hose goes anyplace above the waterline and is open then it’ll suck air into the pump and prevent it from priming.

 

[xavpil]

The way those filters usually work is that water is diverted within them from the top of the housing down into the outer part of the filter body, through the filter from outside in, up the inside of the filter body, and out the outlet.

The output of that filter is probably below the waterline. You should be able to take the output hose off and get water into the boat. Hopefully there’s a seacock below the filter, even though I can’t see one.

Thanks for the explanation. Im' sure it's all fine (even though I don't water coming out of the exhaust anymore, and impeller is ok).
I guess I am just confused on how there is only one hole inside the filter, intake side. And the inside doesn't turn to allow for the hole to face the outake

 

[Davidasailor26]

Are you testing the engine bringing it up to operating temperature, or only observing how it runs when it’s still cool?

There is some old model engine, I can’t remember which one, but it’s unusual in how water flows. In many engines the thermostat allows water to keep flowing to the exhaust even when the engine is cool; it just bypasses the block. This one different engine actually recirculates water internally until the engine warms up. If that model engine happens to be what you have, and you’re only testing it cool, it would explain the lack of exhaust water.

 

[xavpil]

Are you testing the engine bringing it up to operating temperature, or only observing how it runs when it’s still cool?

There is some old model engine, I can’t remember which one, but it’s unusual in how water flows. In many engines the thermostat allows water to keep flowing to the exhaust even when the engine is cool; it just bypasses the block. This one different engine actually recirculates water internally until the engine warms up. If that model engine happens to be what you have, and you’re only testing it cool, it would explain the lack of exhaust water.

Unfortunately the boat is out of the water so I can't really check but your help is precious. Thx

 

[Davidasailor26]

What are you using as a water source while the boat is out of the water? From your pictures I can’t imagine an easy way to run water through the filter without the boat in the water.

 

[xavpil]

What are you using as a water source while the boat is out of the water? From your pictures I can’t imagine an easy way to run water through the filter without the boat in the water.

I am not. But wondering if it's ok to connect a regular garden hose to the filter intake...

 

[Davidasailor26]

Connecting a pressurized hose to the intake is ill advised. That could fill the exhaust manifold and push water back into the cylinders, making an expensive day.

Don’t run the engine unless there is some source of cooling water. Doing so will burn up the impeller.

There is a really good diagram of the Universal 5411 cooling system at Universal Diesel 5411 overheats with recirc line open, never gets warm with recirc line pinched closed. The diagram confirms the 5411 is the engine I was thinking of that recirculates water until it’s warm.

The hose coming in from the bottom right of your screen shot in the 1st post is not an intake, it’s the recirculating line coming back from the thermostat. The actual intake is on the bottom side of the filter.

If anyone with experience flushing a 5411 out of the water has experience I’d defer to them. My initial impression is that you‘d need to get that filter off the thru-hull and put its intake into a bucket of water. The engine should suck some water from the bucket, then recirculate that water until it’s warm. Once warm it will start pumping that water out the exhaust and pulling new water from the bucket.

 

[Steve_Catalina]

Do NOT attach a garden hose to the intake. Put the intake hose into a bucket. Put a water hose into same bucket and turn on. This will allow engine to draw the water into itself

 

[xavpil]

Connecting a pressurized hose to the intake is ill advised. That could fill the exhaust manifold and push water back into the cylinders, making an expensive day.

Glad I asked!!!

My initial impression is that you‘d need to get that filter off the thru-hull and put its intake into a bucket of water. The engine should suck some water from the bucket, then recirculate that water until it’s warm. Once warm it will start pumping that water out the exhaust and pulling new water from the bucket.

Alright, I can try that then.
And thx for the engine info link

 

[SycloneDriver]

I just talked to two different boat owners with old Universal diesels and they will not pump water into the exhaust until the motor warms up. It seems odd but that's how it was designed.

 

[xavpil]

I just talked to two different boat owners with old Universal diesels and they will not pump water into the exhaust until the motor warms up. It seems odd but that's how it was designed.

thx for checking!!!!
I'll do a test tomorrow with a bucket of water and a hose to supply water to the bucket. I just hope my temperature gauge works properly so I don't overheat.

 

[jssailem]

It sure appears to be a mystery...

Here is what your filter looks like on the shelf.

In your image it appears that the inlet is attached to your thru-hull. The water flows in to the filter. Down (or in your case sideways) through the screen and then up into the cap and out the "Outlet".

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

I just talked to two different boat owners with old Universal diesels and they will not pump water into the exhaust until the motor warms up. It seems odd but that's how it was designed.

How would you run antifreeze through it to winterize? I hope there’s some way to bypass the thermostat so it can be winterized without a warmup.

 

[SycloneDriver]

How would you run antifreeze through it to winterize? I hope there’s some way to bypass the thermostat so it can be winterized without a warmup.

You have to remove the thermostat. My friend uses 6 gallons in the engine alone. He suggests that you be careful with the thermostat housing, apparently it is very expensive.

 

[xavpil]

Well today I ran some tests…
unplugged from the seacock and attached an extension on hose to the filter intake and throw it in a bucket of water.
As i was told that this type of engine circulates water only when it needs to cool the. I had to wait and reach around 150F, then 160, still no water through exhaust, 170, 175 and still nothing so I stopped.
I then removed the Extension hose and put the water filter in the bucket of water thinking it was to hard for the water pump to get the water from the bucket. But no luck.
i finally removed the water filter (using a different bucket with filtration) and water came out via the exhaust….

very strange since the filter is clean. Not new but no old either.

This leads me to think that the water pump might be weak… I checked the impelller and it looks fine.
Video of the exhaust flow attached. Does it look like a corrext flow?

 

[xavpil]

It sure appears to be a mystery...

Here is what your filter looks like on the shelf.
View attachment 210329

In your image it appears that the inlet is attached to your thru-hull. The water flows in to the filter. Down (or in your case sideways) through the screen and then up into the cap and out the "Outlet".

This is so helpful! Thx so much

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Well today I ran some tests…
unplugged from the seacock and attached an extension on hose to the filter intake and throw it in a bucket of water.
As i was told that this type of engine circulates water only when it needs to cool the. I had to wait and reach around 150F, then 160, still no water through exhaust, 170, 175 and still nothing so I stopped.
I then removed the Extension hose and put the water filter in the bucket of water thinking it was to hard for the water pump to get the water from the bucket. But no luck.
i finally removed the water filter (using a different bucket with filtration) and water came out via the exhaust….

very strange since the filter is clean. Not new but no old either.

This leads me to think that the water pump might be weak… I checked the impelller and it looks fine.
Video of the exhaust flow attached. Does it look like a corrext flow?

Doesn’t look like there’s a correct flow. Also, that filter looks more like what I’ve seen on fresh water pump intakes. All the other raw water intake strainers I’ve seen have larger baskets with less fineness than the metal mesh in your filter. I think you should ask a marine mechanic whether this should be upgraded to a lager type, and mounted differently.

 

[xavpil]

Doesn’t look like there’s a correct flow. Also, that filter looks more like what I’ve seen on fresh water pump intakes. All the other raw water intake strainers I’ve seen have larger baskets with less fineness than the metal mesh in your filter. I think you should ask a marine mechanic whether this should be upgraded to a lager type, and mounted differently.

Actually the filter label says it is for drinkable water. Doesn’t mention engines… So you’re probably right
I have been looking at a mecahnic actually
thx!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

You've been calling it a "filter" and all the time I've been thinking that is odd terminology to use. What you want to install there is a "sea-water strainer". That could be part of your problem ... but it doesn't explain why flow is weak when you eliminate the "filter". You've been after this problem for a long time, it seems, without any satisfaction. This should be a relatively easy problem to resolve. All it takes is a functioning pump and clear hoses and fittings. It should be easy to identify any blockage or failing part. Trying to resolve this issue while you are not in the water does complicate matters. Sucking water out of a bucket may or may not affect how it works, but it should be a relatively good approximation of the real deal.

I'm not familiar with this system (as David explained it) at all. I have no idea what is your purpose for showing that hose that is obviously cut or damaged somehow. It appears that there may be a thin flexible hose within? Is that hose that you are holding part of a re-circulation system or something else? There is a gate valve and it is closed. If it is part of a re-circulating system, why would you have to manually close and open that valve? Or should it be open? The re-circulating system certainly does complicate matters.

A failed impeller sometimes has no obvious defects. I've replaced several failed impellers in my smaller diesel that looked no different than a brand-new impeller. Yet the failed impellers, as good as they looked, were definitely not passing water, where a new impeller would immediately work as intended. If you haven't replaced your impeller, or your pump for that matter, you may be searching for a solution when the obvious answer is staring you in the face. I apologize if I am missing a few of the steps you have taken but it seems like it has been a long road so far and perhaps it is time for a mechanic's fresh eyes to resolve this issue.