VHF Protocol. Is there one?

Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Yes, if there was no contact from the third party point of view then the third party does not need to do anything as everybody knows that no contact was made. Now if you hear somebody calling the USCG in an emergency and they get no reply you are required by law to assist. In that case you may be using "break" a lot to act as a relay station. This can also be applied to a working freq with a group that you know all the parties, without the legality of course.
 
M

MitchM

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Jan 20, 2005
1,031
Nauticat 321 pilothouse 32 Erie PA
it's especially important if you and your radio are the only ones hearing a mayday. if v1 broadcasts a mayday , and v2 replies but it's clear v1 can't hear v2's reply, your boat can serve the important function of being the mayday relay.
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
I actually had to do this between one of my units operating down in a valley and our HQ in another valley. I was on the pass between them and the CO told me to stay put and keep acting as a relay till the situation resolved itself. It got interesting when the Air Force A-10 showed up and they like to fly pretty low. I was the only station with two radios and the CO just could not resist getting updates on how things where going. Think he was pretty worried when the AF pilot wanted to confirm "danger close" with the Gauw8 30mm Gatling gun.
 
Kermit

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,722
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
I'm telling you right now, if I were the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th party in a real emergency situation, I wouldn't even think about protocol. Adrenaline has that effect on me.
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Well Kermit you just need more practice. When all around you are loosing it and you remain cool and calm that can have SERIOUS calming effect on the rest of the group!!! When was the last time (if ever) you heard a USCG person get emotional?
 
DannyS

DannyS

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May 27, 2004
933
Beneteau 393 Bayfield, Wi
If Boat A hails Boat B and receives no reply, a negative contact message lets others know he or she is vacating the channel so others don't walk over the hailing request. Then Boat C can hail Boat D, etc.
 
Kings Gambit

Kings Gambit

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Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
MitchM said:
it's especially important if you and your radio are the only ones hearing a mayday. if v1 broadcasts a mayday , and v2 replies but it's clear v1 can't hear v2's reply, your boat can serve the important function of being the mayday relay.
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That I would know b/c I could hear both vessels' transmission--so v1 cannot hear v2. My question was who is the original hailer talking to when he says "negative contact." If I have this correct, he's actually talking to whoever heard a reply that he did not and in essence is requesting a relay if one can be provided. If it's statutory to provide a relay in emergency situations, then I suppose there's no need to "ask." However, in any event the boats that hear a reply as well as those that don't will ultimately know whether or not the original hailer made his contact. So, the announcement of "negative contact" would not have much utility except to "request" relay, etc.
 
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Kermit

Kermit

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Jul 31, 2010
5,722
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
I've been the relay once. I was the middle man between a racer and the race committee. Not exactly an emergency. And I didn't even know there were protocols for breaks and stuff. We just sorta talked.
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Correct KG, a blind broadcast.
DannyS, the correct way to clear the channel is "listening on...." if you are going to monitor that channel.
 
Bill Roosa

Bill Roosa

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Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
Kermit, nothing wrong with "just talking" but using the code words correctly is just salty IMHO
 
Kings Gambit

Kings Gambit

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Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
DannyS said:
If Boat A hails Boat B and receives no reply, a negative contact message lets others know he or she is vacating the channel so others don't walk over the hailing request. Then Boat C can hail Boat D, etc.
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This also makes sense, but after a couple of tries I would naturally assume the channel opens up. It is Ch 16 after all.
 
DannyS

DannyS

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May 27, 2004
933
Beneteau 393 Bayfield, Wi
I wonder how much of this is regional. I've never heard anyone use the term "listening on..." I get that there is some sort of protocol for those in the know, but most people are recreational boaters and listen first then follow along with the regional lingo.
 
kimelmore

kimelmore

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Dec 28, 2010
462
Catalina 380 san pedro
Sailing vessel Rusty Bucket is ready to copy Motor vessel Big Mutha 10-4 you say I'm in your way? That's a big negatory I'm a sailing vessel and as such I have the right of way....say Big Mutha...are you going to turn outta ma way or not there ....whoah Big Mutha this is Sailing vessel Rusty Bucket I say again...it looks like you might be runnin me down theah.......hey...hey...I'm listening on channel 16 and I don't hear you....Say what Coast Guard? did you say.....oh my goodness he is getting mighty close....hey is anyone listening to me???...did someone say go to channel 72?....Crunch.....
 
catalanc

catalanc

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Mar 23, 2015
259
Catalina 22 MK-II Dillon, CO
As I understand it, boaters are actually supposed to monitor channel 16 at all times. Initial "casual" contact is also made on 16, but then both participants agree to switch to another channel for non-emergency communication. There are specific channels for specific types of communication. Check out
http://www.boatus.org/guide/equipment_19.html
 
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Benny17441

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May 24, 2004
7,213
CC 30 South Florida
Kings Gambit said:
The folks at Sector Los Angeles talk so fast I can hardly follow the message. A weather Securite' should certainly be audible (i.e., intelligible). At one point I had to hail them (Sector LA) and ask them to repeat it to me. And who needs to know "negative contact?" Who are these people talking to to report "negative contact"? (And who would care?)
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I have made the same observation, it seems to be an institutialized practice across the sectors. They broadcast an alert but the talk is so fast that even with good strong reception it is unintelligible . I wonder why they bother at all as it ends up just being a disservice and a waste of time and effort. If they are trying to minimize the time on the air they are failing badly as the time used was totally wasted. Take a few more seconds and properly convey the message. I rarely have problems understanding talk on the VHF but always have problems understanding the Securite' alerts, you tell me where fault lies. The USCG needs to revise their protocols and performance on these alerts.
 
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Capt jgw

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Feb 8, 2014
1,300
Columbia 36 Muskegon
They also like to use their own jargon which the pleasure boater might not understand. I once heard a boater who was obviously scared try to call for help, the CG kept telling him to "pass your traffic". Boater had no idea what that meant and didn't know what to say. After several go rounds of this, I finally keyed up and said "just tell them what you want". The rest of the interaction went well after that.
 
Gunni

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
During the day and especially while underway we have the radio on, at bunk-time we turn the entertainment off!
 
Kings Gambit

Kings Gambit

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Jul 27, 2011
5,180
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Benny17441 said:
I have made the same observation, it seems to be an institutialized practice across the sectors. They broadcast an alert but the talk is so fast that even with good strong reception it is unintelligible . I wonder why they bother at all as it ends up just being a disservice and a waste of time and effort. If they are trying to minimize the time on the air they are failing badly as the time used was totally wasted. Take a few more seconds and properly convey the message. I rarely have problems understanding talk on the VHF but always have problems understanding the Securite' alerts, you tell me where fault lies. The USCG needs to revise their protocols and performance on these alerts.
Click to expand
I think part of the problem is that they apparently record the announcement and then broadcast it over the VHF radio at regular intervals. The recording may sound OK in the office, at least intelligible, but does not transmit well over the radio. Somehow I doubt they ever listen to the actual broadcast themselves. I've also noticed that CG folks sometimes lack geographic knowledge of their area, as well as details about the weather zones. For example, Santa Cruz Island borders three weather zones; so there is no such thing, really, as a zonal weather report for Santa Cruz Island. For you, it would depend upon which zone you happened to be in. The "moniker" or description of the zone mentions Santa Cruz Island in only one of the three, so that's the one you get (twice) if you mention you're at Santa Cruz Island, etc.
 
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