Very Newbie

JSumme

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Jul 21, 2015
35
Marlow-Hunter e33 Alexandria
I've followed this post on and off all day and the discussion reminds me of the days when I spent most of my summer days in and out of the water at my girlfriends house while I was in college back in the late 1970s. This is the time I really learned to sail and made it a lifelong hobby. There were 3 or 4 of us that always hung out together at her house swimming and sailing one of the three daysailers they had. We were young and dumb and invincible. We swam across the lake on several occassions and were considered fish that lived on land. Her father had sailed competitively in college, but had recently undergone an open heart surgery replete with the scar from his throat to his belly button. He was on limited exercise and could go sailing with one or more of us. That is largely how I learned to sail, by taking him out so he could be out on the water.

One day, I drove up to the house and my girlfriend's mother was hysterical. Apparently, the father had stayed home from work and decided to take one of the boats (a Y-scow) out on his own. With the binoculars, she could see him out on the lake sitting cross legged on the bottom side of a turned turtle hull. He had been there for a couple of hours. So within minutes my girlfriend, her brother, myself and another friend got in an aluminum dingy and motored out to the scow. What a mess! The boat was 100% turtle with the masthead stuck in the mud about 22-23 feet below. We got the dad in the dinghy and the three of us guys tried to turn the boat. Unfortunately, the dad sitting on the hull had driven the mast into the mud! Alternatively, each one of us swam to the bottom of the lake pulling ourselves along the mast and halyard to see if we could free the masthead...to no avail. The main was topped out and in the mud as well. We couldn't see anything that deep down in a freshwater lake in Indiana and we realized, rightly or wrongly, that we would have to lower the main to free the mast. So the brother methodically uncleated the sheets and halyards, knowing the boat the best, and the rest of us would dive down in that cold, dark water to start coaxing the main down (up) the mast. Unfortunately, the main wasn't on slides, instead the whelp was inserted in the slide on the mast. So bringing the main down was not easy. This is where I learned that swimming in waters with loose lines trailing around was dangerous! Thankfully, no one got tied up. After about what seems like an hour, we emerged successful, throwing the main in the dinghy. Now to attack the stuck masthead. Standing on the bottom 20 feet down, holding our breaths, not one of us alone could pull up on the mast and raise the boat enough to free the mast. The scow was made out of wood and was heavy. We were trying to deadlift it while standing in mud, holding our breaths in 20 feet of water. We had about 10-15 seconds down there at best. Glad we were young! Eventually, it took two of us to pull up on the mast while one of us pulled on the gunwale to turn it over. Then it was just a matter of securing the lines, bailing the cockpit, and towing the boat to the dock. We all got back safe, sound and alive. Obviously, the dad was in hot water, but we were the heroes of the day! I had use of all three of their boats anytime I wanted after that. As the Duke says "Life is hard, but its harder if you are stupid!" We were fairly stupid in our approach, clearly risking the lives of three college guys to retrieve a boat. It probably would have been way safer to get a bigger boat, attach a line and drag the scow out of the mud. But we didn't, and we had great pride in our acheivement! What a day to remember!
 
Nov 30, 2015
1,337
Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini, Treman Marina, Ithaca, NY
We were fairly stupid in our approach, clearly risking the lives of three college guys to retrieve a boat. It probably would have been way safer to get a bigger boat, attach a line and drag the scow out of the mud. But we didn't, and we had great pride in our acheivement! What a day to remember!
Nice story...well written and very entertaining. I saw the whole thing in my mind. Brave college men. Yeah, used to be one of those invincible idiots too. Did you end up marrying the girl? Could only make the story perfect.
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,926
Oday Day Sailer Wareham, MA
The best way to recover fro ma capsize is to NOT capsize in the first place! The 49# centerboard (NOT KEEL, NOT DAGGERBOARD!) should make keeping hte Javelin upright a lot easier than o nmy DS II or my old Widgeon, yet I have never capsized either of those boats while sailing (Widgeon rolled over once on hte mooring, sails removed, when I tried to adjust one of the spreaders while standing on the seat) That is because I always sail my boats like hte CB boats they are, keeping the mainsheet in hand while sailing, sailing with just hte main on windy days, reefing if needed, and sitting on the side deck, all help me to keep my record of staying upright, and I sail on widy Buzzards Bay near Cape Cod. ALWAYS sail with the mainsheet in your hand on any small centerboard boat, use hte supplied camcleat to hold hte tension, but keep the sheet in hand. That will allow yo uto quickly release the mainsheet in a gust, which wil lprevent about 90% of capsizes (maybe even 99-100%). Remember that on a centerboard boat like hte Javelin, you and your crew are the moveable ballast that keeps the boat stable, so it is usually best to keep most wieght to windward and switch sides when tacking. Sitting on the side decks in windy conditions wil ladd tremendously to the stability of hte boat, so get a tiller extension to allow you to sit there when needed. A boom-vang to help flatten the sail in stronger winds is also a good idea, as is simply making hte outhaul tighter to also flatten the sail to reduce it's heeling effect. I would not waste money on a masthead float, something that due to it's weight could actually increase the risk of a capsize. Simply sail your boat like the centerboard boat she is and you will do fine, maybe have a friend with strong centerboard boat experience come with yo ua few times to teach you the techniques of capsize prevention may help too.

Finally, when raising (or lowering the sails, I would keep the boat tied to the dock, if she can pivot into the wind while tied up (using just a bow line might help, loop it around so that both ends are o nthe boat and you can release it without getting back out of hte boat is a good idea). The other option is to drift or paddle away from the dock area, then anchor while raising sails. I have used that technique a few times, although I usually (99% of the time) raise my sails before leaving hte mooring anyway. As others have said ALWAYS keep the mainsheet untied and able to freely run out while raising and lowering sails, if yo uhave a boom-vang, that should be loose as wel luntil the sail is fully up.
 
Aug 28, 2015
6
MacGregor 26X Calgary
Maybe this is obvious, but might not be if you are a total newbie, just in case it is not...If you have crew running the tiller to keep the boat into the wind, I presume you advise to move the tiller opposite to what you would when moving forward? If your boat is into the wind (as it should be when raising the main), it will be as if you are in irons and will be drifting backwards with the wind causing the bow to go the same direction as the tiller is pointed instead of opposite. If the helmsman is still running the tiller as if you are going forward it will only hasten the rate at which the boat gets turned to the wind. So if are drifting backwards and the bow seems to be swinging to port, point the tiller to starboard. Just something that might help keep the boat into the wind while you are raising the main. You can usually tell by the swirls of water at the rudder if you are going forward or backward (sometimes hard to tell if you are trying to get out of irons in light air) as they will be on the down stream side of the water flow across the rudder (moving backwards, they will be on the side closest to the stern, moving forward they will be on the side furthest from the stern). And of course make sure your main sheet is running free (with a stopper knot at the end of the line) to allow the boom to align with the wind as well. Happy sailing!
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,007
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
I don't think I've ever seen a small boat sailor raise his/her sails anyplace but the dock or on the beach.... or even on the launch dolly. So telling your crew to steer the boat into the wind so you can rais the sail is absurd... you can't steer the boat into the wind unless you have a motor pushing the boat forward, because you can't steer unless you're moving.... are you crazy? Dinghies don't have motors. If you're tied to a mooring.... don't untie until the sails are up... then sail off the mooring.

Rig the boat..... hoist the sails on the trailer, the beach or tied to the dock. Leave the sheets un cleated. When you launch or leave the beach.... use either the jib or main to pull the bow away i.e. if the wind is OFF the beach or dock... hold out the jib to pull the bow away first. If the wind is ON the beach or dock... use the main sail only... with jib uncleated. IF the wind is running parallel to the dock or beach.... position the boat so it points upwind....Then just push off by hand.
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,064
-na -NA Anywhere USA
As a former dealer in my later years selling daysailors primarily Catalina, Hunter and precisons to include a few others, I found when small boats overturned, the mast has a tendency to sink thus rolling the boat over 180 degrees unless in a shallow area where the top of the mast may possibly be caught in the mud. Hobie cameo out with a mast float that will fit nearly any of the small sailboat masts called the Hobiebob I think that is the name. I use to put it on as standard so the top of the mast did not sink. Another trick was to let the sheets go and if you could get the sails down even better unless you are in frigid waters and hypothermia was an issue where you needed to get the boat uprighted quickly. You could depending on the keel or centerboard is to stand on it while in the water forcing it down to upright the boat. The trick here is to keep hold of the boat and hand hold sometimes is not the key. I use to teach taking the mainsheet tying it off to the base of the mast or you could have an additional line secured around the base of the mast and hold onto it when standing on the keel/centerboard not only to help upright the boat which in some cases made it easier but now you have a line to hold on and pull yourself up.
 
Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Hey, your just over the hill from our house. That's the way we started many years ago but probably did more dumb stuff since there wasn't any internet back then. Don't worry about losing or breaking stuff, they make more every day.

All U Get
 
Aug 22, 2014
43
Hunter 40 Corpus Christi
Get your wife a waterproof phone with a camera so she can take pix of you practicing righting the boat. Post them here so we can give you more advice.

Also, it might be a good thing to invest in a paperback beginners sailing book.
 
Mar 20, 2013
7
Catalina 16.5 Sparks Marina
Definitely put a float on top of the mast. It will help but don't depend on it totally, I've seen a Capri 14 turtled during a sailing class. It took the kids an hour to turn it back up. I've been successful stepping on the base of the mast with a float, swinging my leg over the side to step on the centerboard, leaning out, and using the shrouds to help myself back it. Total damage = wet feet.

You can launch from shore into an onshore wind if you have an anchor and paddle out a ways. You need enough leeway to start sailing and gain steerage before you are blown into shallow water.

I also run my stern dock line through the drain holes in the transom of my Capris 16.5. It comes with me when I sail. The loop is large enough that I can use it for a step to get these bad hips and shoulders back on board by pulling myself hanging on to the foot straps.

Like everybody has said, keep the main sheet in your hand. It is possible to release it and the rudder and make a dive to the high side to keep it upright.
 
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Aug 15, 2016
21
Hunter H26 Long point
A cheap safety I add to my hobiecat 16 is 2 emtpy Bleech bottles on a clip attached to the top of the main sail as you raise it...if the boat ever capsizes , it prevents from turtling
 
Jun 8, 2004
10,064
-na -NA Anywhere USA
CA
Be cautious when pulling on the upper shroud so it will not come loose from the spreader bar. Even though I sold the 16.5, old fartitis is setting in not knowing if that mast had spreader bars.
RU
Had a couple of clients who put the plastic bottles attached to the head of the mainstay but had a difficult time getting the mainsail down. Like I tell everyone, if it works for you, go for it.
 

JSumme

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Jul 21, 2015
35
Marlow-Hunter e33 Alexandria
No, we didn't get married. I thought it was headed that way, but she dumped me the summer after college. Found a better gal and own my own sailboat now. I've never had to dig another boat out of the mud since!
 
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Aug 3, 2012
2,542
Performance Cruising Telstar 28 302 Watkins Glen
No, we didn't get married. I thought it was headed that way, but she dumped me the summer after college. Found a better gal and own my own sailboat now. I've never had to dig another boat out of the mud since!
But, but.... Huh?
 

JSumme

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Jul 21, 2015
35
Marlow-Hunter e33 Alexandria
Yep, I thought my reply would go to a sub blog to the guy asking.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,104
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Racing Lido 14's taught skipper and crew to quickly bail over the high side. They were particularly unstable going downwind. I guess our raising the center board to reduce drag may have contributed to this condition. We would climb over the high side as the boat was breaching, out onto the center board slot and lean back. When lucky we could climb back into the boat as she came right side up. Then grab for the Clorox bottles with their bottoms cut off and bail. When at the top of our game we could accomplish this dance and not loose our place in the race. It must have looked bizarre to anyone standing on shore. Boat going over, crew climbing off the boat, boat righting herself, crew climbing back aboard, water flying everywhere, sails retaking their shape. A regular Keystone Cops madhouse.
Never stuck the mast in the mud. Often times the sail hit the water and came right back up.
 
Jun 8, 2004
350
Macgregor 21 Clinton, NJ
In most of the above replys I spotted very little about having the centerboard down at least a minimal amount before attempting to raise the main. Definitely uncleat the mainsheet with a stopper knot in the end as well. If your main halyard is on the starboard side of the mast, make sure any breeze is from your starboard if possible to avoid having the boom come across and smack you or be stopped by you with no place to go(another capsize in the making on a small boat). My 15' and my 17' daysailers had minimal steerage without SOME centerboard down even under power. Both my smaller boats have a cleat to let down the centerboard by degrees. A breakable pin for the centerboard is a great idea once fully underway with all sails up.
 
Aug 21, 2016
8
Oday 14 Javlin Deerfield NH
Thanks for all the help. I got out this weekend a few times, once even with my wife. With my new main sheet, 15' longer and in hand, not locked, I have a whole new sense of control. We had some stiff wind on Sunday too!
 
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Jul 27, 2013
296
Hunter 37.5 1065 Rock Hall, MD
Brad,

I have a Chrysler mutineer 15' and a Hunter legend 37.5. I agree with the others about leaving the main sheet not cleated while hoisting the main.

My trick for not turtling when raising the main was not having the dagger board down while hoisting the main. I found that without the dagger board digging in the water, there was not much lateral resistance. So....I could hoist the main, get settled at the tiller on the windward side, then deploy the dagger board. Once the board was down, she would heel predictably, and then I could sheet in, and take off.

Also.... always, always, always sail with the main sheet in hand and not cleated. If you are overpowered, let it out. Go up in the puffs, and down in the lulls.

Now, a couple of modifications to do to make your life easier while sailing:

1. Add Sail slugs to your main instead of the bolt rope. This was the easiest thing to do and made hoisting and dousing the main a pleasure. Get them from Rig Rite as well as a slide stopper.
2. Fit the jib with a roller furler. I did that, and it made my life so much better.
3. Get a sail cradle from Sail Care. I did that to stop getting blanketed by the mainsail and to keep the boom from falling on me (it acts as a topping lift, as well as a lazy jack).

Here are some videos so you can see the additions I was talking about.


Good Luck!!

Ben