Very Newbie

[isaksp00]

Would it make sense to pull the sails in while in the water to prevent the boat from sailing away?

I doubt it - if you pull them in with the sheets cleated, then when righted it may catch the wind and fly off without you. The idea is to ensure the sheets are free, so that when righted, the wind will just push them into a luff. That is why you try to position the boat head to wind before you right it - if the wind is astern and you pull it up, it may start off on a run, and even if the sheet is free, the side stays may block the boom and keep it from moving to let the main luff.

 

[bradsawler]

I really meant drilling a small hole in the center board itself, not the trunk. I had a hard time getting my fingers in the slot to pull the dagger board out. If there was a small ring or chain attached it would be much easier.

 

[dglauber]

Hi All,
I'm very new to sailing and I am completely hooked.
My family purchased a lake house in NH and my stepfather quickly bought an Oday Javlin 14'.
He was born and raised in Bermuda and has sailing in his blood.
I went out with him once and my father once and decided it was time to go solo.
I had sailed three times solo or with a friend until yesterday when with my wife we tipped the boat.
I am a big dude 6'7" 285lbs so I am not so nimble in the boat.
It seems like I have had all of my trouble while raising the main sail. I get the boat pointed into the wind but it seems to be a challenge to keep the boat pointed while I tie off the mail halyard.
Yesterday I didn't do good enough of a job explaining this to my wife and she was on the tiller.
We got sideways and over we went.
We had the help of some very kind boaters to help right it.
I guess I learned a lesson and only hurt my pride.
Any tips on raising the main sail would be apreciated.
Off to have another cup of coffee and go sailing!

It looks like you got plenty of great responses. Just let the boom swing free when your raising the sail whether at the dock or not, that will stop the tipping.

As a fellow tall guy I finally found a great boat. A Hunter 26 or 260(same thing but newer). Water ballast so its light on the trailer, swing keel so its short on the trailer, and tons of headroom in the cabin.

 

[jrevkin]

Crew size is not the issue. The finn "heavyweight" dinghy is sailed by really tall, big guys (albeit athletes). It has a massive mainsail and low boom. The boat and sail/boom should be free, to stay headed up into the wind (the boom vang should be free, if the boat has one), and the mainsheet free (with figure eight in the tail). The helms-person, needs to try to keep the rudder so that it can push the bow of the boat into the wind, while hoisting (and lowering the sail). Re; the dagger/centerboard, boats like the Finn dinghy have heavy schock cord loops around pins on both sides of the centerboard, to keep it in the down position. An alternative would be to cleat it down. Obviously, you need to remember to bring the board up, when in shallow water or before hauling the boat out.

 

[Sacto Dave]

My wife and I took a sailing class back in '99 from the Sacramento State Aquatic Center on Lake Natoma. First lesson? Turtle the 14' Holder and recover with the scoop method. It was nice to have that concern eliminated at the start.

 

[RickKane]

I really meant drilling a small hole in the center board itself, not the trunk. I had a hard time getting my fingers in the slot to pull the dagger board out. If there was a small ring or chain attached it would be much easier.

I thought that's what you meant. I'd advise looking for a way to add line where the line to raise the board is, to allow you to pull the board back down. I know that means swimming around to right the boat assuming it's not turtled (and, with my old M16 scow, sometimes finding the board has retreated when you get there!), but you don't do any drilling. The idea of a small rescue line sounds convenient, but making a hole means possibly exposing core in an epoxy centerboard, or thirsty endgrain wood. Not good either way so you need to epoxy any hole. A down line in the cockpit, if you can devise it, can be tied off wherever. It could be a bungee that you keep attached but allows centerboard swing in case of grounding.

 

[agprice22]

With regards to righting the boat, the dagger board is hinged and when it went over the dagger board folded back up into the hull. We got it out once but it was very challenging. We needed assistance from some folks in a power boat. Is there a trick with this type of dagger board? I thought of drilling a small hole at the end and attaching a small clip or piece of chain. Also should I pull the sails in before righting. Having no experience, should I be able to right a 14' boat solo? It is probably my biggest hesitation, not having help righting if I capsize again.
And of course I always wear my vest.

Ok. It sounds like your boat has a centerboard that swings. It should have an eye at the forward end of it where it sits above the trunk in your cockpit. This eye should get a line on it to be cleated to hold the centerboard in the down position. I have blocks and a cam cleat on mine, so I can release it quickly if beaching it.

Release the sheets for your sails when righting the boat, so the sails can become perpendicular to the surface of the water. That way, they do not have any resistance in the water as the boat rights.
Yes. You should be able to right that boat. Release the sheets.
Swim behind the boat to the centerboard. Pull the centerboard down to the water. Reach up and grab the high gunwale and pull it down to the water. I am small and light, and I can actually climb on my centerboard to right the boat, grab the gunwale, and ride it til the boat is upright.
Practice it! It can actually be fun!

 

[dennismenace111]

Get a bigger boat or learn to swim!

 

[SFS]

...Capsizing is not embarrassing, it's a right of passage for any sailor.

That's so true. And since righting a small boat is a skill that needs to be practiced, the only way to get there is to capsize it!

I remember the summer afternoon my dad taught my brother and I the basics of sailing. We tacked and ran and sailed for about an hour, switching tasks, and were getting the hang of it, when my dad said "ok, now you need to learn what to do if the boat goes over". So he briefed us on the procedure, and we all got on a gunwhale, and capsized the boat. My brother and I did our thing while my dad watched, we got the boat upright, and we all got back in. My brother looked at my dad, laughing with joy, and said "Can we do it again?" We spent the next 3 hours capsizing, turtling, and righting the boat. One of the best days of my life. I was about 12.

 

[bradsawler]

That's so true. And since righting a small boat is a skill that needs to be practiced, the only way to get there is to capsize it!

I remember the summer afternoon my dad taught my brother and I the basics of sailing. We tacked and ran and sailed for about an hour, switching tasks, and were getting the hang of it, when my dad said "ok, now you need to learn what to do if the boat goes over". So he briefed us on the procedure, and we all got on a gunwhale, and capsized the boat. My brother and I did our thing while my dad watched, we got the boat upright, and we all got back in. My brother looked at my dad, laughing with joy, and said "Can we do it again?" We spent the next 3 hours capsizing, turtling, and righting the boat. One of the best days of my life. I was about 12.

I know what I'm doing tonight

This is a big help, thanks all

 

[roygump12]

Funny.... as I look at this photo, I First feel the calm and beauty, then I quickly feel claustrophobic seeing how small the lake is..... being someone who always sails out into the huge space of the end of the long island sound. Though I always imagine those nice lakes have clean clear water to jump into after sailing for awhile. In the Sound there always seems to be damn stinging jellyfish when I go to swim. (this year I heard there's a new wicked type in Ct.!)

 

[talbotb]

I sail an O'Day Day Sailer, which is slightly larger but similar to the Javelin. Capsizing is a big topic in the Daysailer.org forum, because the boat is notoriously difficult to right. A centerboard downhaul is essential; it can incoporate shock cord or a breakaway cleat to avoid damage if you run aground. But you do need to hold the board down. I second the advice to run the halyard back to the cockpit so you are not standing up by the mast while raising the main. You can use a pivoting mast cam, as was suggested (Ronstan used to be the go-to supplier, but now Harken and other companies make them as well). Or just use a block on the mast and run the line back to wherever you want to have a cleat. Cams are expensive, but they shave down those anxious seconds between the time the sail is completely raised and you get back to the helm to take control. By the way, one of the foremost Day Sailer forum posters, who sails his boat on long cruises, is a bigger guy than you are. And he does really well, because he can balance his boat in winds that completely overpower wimps like me. Get yourself some hiking straps, and you will show the world that Size Does Matter.

 

[roygump12]

And as far as capsizing when starting out.... JSunne hit it on the head when he said " keep the mainsheet Uncleated"! Since you say you are a beginner... the mainsheet is the Line that you hold that goes to the boom, for the main sail. Have your wife (if she ever agrees to try this again with you)(though, between you and me it's going to be a lot easier without her) make sure that That line stays free while you raise the main... so the sail is just flapping in the wind(that is, if there's enough wind to make it Flap). If the wind isn't pushing on the sails, the boat isn't going to lean over from it. The main thing though, in my humble opinion, with all this... is to keep calm during this process. Breathe.... whistle. Though it may feel like it, especially if you have an audience (like My Mother standing on the dock yelling out detailed expert instructions at you) nothing catastrophic is going to happen during this.
Soon you'll be doing it easily and just enjoying that feeling you get as you sit back down and pull in the main sheet (line) and feel the boat move along in the wind. Tell how it's goin.

 

[Roland5048]

Learning to sail in a small boat will hone, true by the seat of the pants, sailing skills. They are much more demanding than the larger boats.

How true. I learned to sail on bigger, 30 - 40+ footers and the first time I got into something less than 20 feet I thought, how hard can this be? I learned alot about sailing that day. And, yes, keep that mainsheet loose when righting after a knockdown. I took a knock down in a Hobiecat 16 30+ years ago. When we got her back on her feet, I inadvertently grabbed the mainsheet that was trailing in the water, the main tightened and off she went like a Banshee. There I was being towed while hand over handing it to get back to the boat. Today, that boat would have sailed off into the sunset without me. Go have fun!

 

[steven685]

Raise the sail before you get off the mooring or if a trailer boat do same before you leave the shore. then go sailing.

 

[Leeward Rail]

One of the more fun aspects of little boats is getting tossed in the drink when you mess up, or push it too hard. The boat has a definitive way of expressing itself. Don't worry about getting tossed, spend time in the experience, learn from it and keep going.
It's only water.

+1


Does the boat have positive floation ? Will it float when full of water ?
If so, then capsizing is no big deal.

This is the first thing I do when teaching friends to sail on my 16ft Invitation daysailer.
I pick a mild day for a first lesson.
I explain that I will intentionally capsize the boat and how we will go about righting it.
Once they know that capsizing a daysailer, like a wayfarer, laser 2, etc. is not a big deal, it removes one of the major fears.

Last time my buddy and I (200lbs each) were out in that boat, we got hit by a localized cell that produced some great whitecaps and borderline conditions for a boat with a sock sail fully deployed.
We dumped it a bunch of times pushing it to the edge. Laughing all the way.
I considered wrapping the sail around the mast, but my buddy was doing fine, and the conditions, with 400 pounds of humans on the boat, were manageable without the major hassle of trying to reef that way.
A nice group in a powerboat came to see if we were ok. We just had a chat with them, hauled the boat back up and kept going.
We could see the end of the cell coming across the lake, and were disappointed when the wind dropped. It made for a tiring, but fun part of the afternoon of sailing.

Brad,

Looking at the old brochures of O'day javelins, it appears they have centerboards that slide down into the trunk.
If your boat is like that, here is a tip that may work for that boat...
Run some bungie cord from the top of the centerboard/daggerboard and attach it to something forward.
On my 16ft daysailer that jams it in place so it stays wherever you put it. To adjust it up or down I just need to pull it backwards slightly and slide it up/down as needed.

Edit: ignore above... I see that your centerboard pivots instead.

Learn how to right the boat on your own, both on it's side, and fully upside down.
Go out on a mild day and intentionally dump it.
You and your wife will become much more confident if you know you can do it when required.
(My wife and I have to right the boat in different ways, since she doesn't have the strength to pull her self up on the end of the centerboard.)
Obviously WEAR A LIFE JACKET AT ALL TIMES.

If your boat doesn't float when full of water, then ignore my post.

As for raising the sail on the water... You say your sheet is too short, which is part of the problem.
Make sure the mainsheet allows the boom to full extend either side.
That way the boat's bow can move to a bit either side of the wind direction without the mainsail filling with wind.

Would it make sense to pull the sails in while in the water to prevent the boat from sailing away?

No. Doing that allows the sails to powerup/fill and the boat will sail away or capsize again.
Keep the sheets loose until on board, then pull the sails in, to power them up and start moving.

 

[Codybear]

Assuming you have resolved the centerboard retraction problem, next time you have light winds, take your boat out into deep enough water to prevent a turtled mast from hitting bottom and practice capsizing and re-righting. The practice will give you a lot more confidence and will certainly pay off when conditions are rougher. Before you swim around to the centerboard, make sure the mainsheet is uncleated, otherwise the sail acts like a giant bag of water making it very difficult to upright as well as inviting a capsize in the opposite direction.

There are additional tricks to righting a boat that make things go smoother. After you capsize and you are in the water between the boom and hull, grab the gunwale with your hands with your body facing the bow or stern and push yourself underwater and onto the bottom side of the hull. This will make it much quicker to grab the centerboard and prevent a turtle. Also, when you are on top of the centerboard and as the boat is just about to come all the way up, you can carefully balance yourself and climb in without going back into the water. The really good sailors can usually stay dry in a capsize because they throw a leg over the top and right onto the center/daggerboard and immediately re-right. Lastly, if the boat turtles and if your boat behaves like a Sunfish or Laser, there will be trapped air in the cockpit so you can swim under to the trapped air and fiddle with any knotted/cleated lines without having to hold your breath.

When I took Sunfish lessons and subsequently taught lessons, re-writing a capsized boat was a requirement to passing. It was great fun for the kids on a no wind day to capsize and play in the water. It was also great fun for us instructors to pirate and challenge the more skilled students by completely disassembling the turtled Sunfish, including the mast, and having them re-right and put it back together on the water. Probably be frowned upon in this day and age, but it certainly increased their skills and confidence. Better to be learning under supervision than when things get wild on Lake Michigan.

 

[Solarfry]

1.Install sail slugs and use a sail stop. 2. bring the main halyard permanently to cockpit so you don't have to stand while raising sail. 3. Place a line tied 3' to 5' feet down from bow to bring anchor line to cockpit. 4. loosen mainsheet so main will flow with wind. 5. lift the main while anchored and sitting. 6.lift anchor or untie while main flaps with wind. 7.move back and go sailing.

A couple of dead automotive batteries in the center of bilge will also aid in ballasting boat.

A hobie cat mast float can prevent turtling (upside down boat) and prevent mast from sinking.

 

[talbotb]

There is a lot of excellent advice here, but hardly anything related specifically to the O'Day Javelin (not even my own comments based on the similar O'Day 17). We were giving advice on CB management when most of us weren't even sure whether the boat had a CB or dagger board. The details of a particular boat's rigging and behavior are important. If I owned a Javelin, I would take my questions over to http://www.odayjavelin.com/, and get involved in the Javelin owners' group.

 

[sailndays]

Did you try raising the mast with a Skyhook? Every now and then the staff at West Marine can help you with one.