Vega and pointing..

[groundhogyh]

You know. I read that article posted here last week.
It said something about the Vega not pointing high into the wind.
I have not experienced that at all. My first trys at pointing were VERY sucessful.
And my rigging is not tuned at all (kind of floppy). My sails are old (foresail on it's last legs and main has only a couple years left on it).

I easily point inside of the 90 degree no-go area. That's counting apparent wind and all.

Anyone else have any observations on this?
rb




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 

[mageekenneth]

I thought the same thing when I read that. I can sail to within 30* of the apparent wind angle. I have always experienced around a 60* no sail zone (30* either side of dead upwind). Perhaps I am mistaken, but I don't think so. My VEGA points just fine as far I can tell. It isn't a racer, so That is plenty high enough for me.

K.L.Magee

 

[Vega1447]

Hi.

I have to say that the tacking angle by gps is rarely less than 100 degrees.

The Vega is very competitive off the wind but not particularly
close-winded imo.

John
V1447 Breakaway

groundhog wrote:

 

[mageekenneth]

I am sure I am misinterpreting something then. I assume my terminology is incorrect.

K.L.Magee

 

[Vega1447]

Hi Kenneth
I'm only speaking from my own experience.
If you can consistently tack through 60 degrees I'm impressed.

Of course you may not be taking leeway into account?
Have you checked with gps?
(At HW or LW )

John
V1447 Breakaway

Kenneth Magee wrote:

 

[tom_rutter]

Hi all,

I've got a medium age roller furlong sail and I find I need most of it
out to stand a chance of getting that close. It makes it impossible to
make much progress upwind in a 5 or above because she drops off when I
reef. In light winds I agree entirely. I guess I should move the run
of the sheets inboard of the shrouds maybe?

I guess this problem is less for folks with the hanked one foresails?
They must keep a better shape than a reefer furler.

Tom

 

[groundhogyh]

Yes, I have... had a hanked on genoa. I just got a furler and am in the process of buying a head sail.
I hope I don't miss my hanked on sails..
rb

 

[groundhogyh]

Speaking of which...
Any advise on what type of genoa I should order?
Sailing in the chesapeake. Wind gets quiet from about mid-june to mid august. Otherwise very nice in the 7-12 knot area.

If I select a 150%, that may be going too far and will it compromise my pointing ablity?
Maybe a 140? and I can reef down to 110?

roy

 

[tom_rutter]

I think I can reef down to 50% of the sail area (1/3 of way to rolling up
the sail) without it being a problem upwind. I'm not sure whether the
problems then are due to the sheeting angle, the sail shape or the centre of
effort moving forward, or a combination, but she just won't go as high after
that (especially with a reefed main).

How does this compare with other's experience? I'm not the most experienced
sailor. Am I missing something?

Tom

2009/5/22 groundhog groundhogyh@...

 

[groundhogyh]

I am also not terribly experienced in the sailing department.
But my reference for performance is when I did several years of Wednesday night races. Still do fill in sometimes. I would watch the wind vane at the top of the mast. These boats make their money pointing, and the wind vane on these would only get just inside the 90 degree flags on the wind vane. I have not used the GPS for this.
rb

 

[brettgoldstone]

Pointing ability must be determined by compass(or GPS) reading. Wind indicators are apparent wind readings that depending on boat speed and wind velocity can vary up to 10 degrees on each tack.
Brett

________________________________
From: groundhog groundhogyh@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 7:19:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Vega and pointing..I am also not terribly experienced in the sailing department.
But my reference for performance is when I did several years of Wednesday night races. Still do fill in sometimes. I would watch the wind vane at the top of the mast. These boats make their money pointing, and the wind vane on these would only get just inside the 90 degree flags on the wind vane. I have not used the GPS for this.
rb

 

[groundhogyh]

I understand about apparent wind.
When two different boats are pointing, isn't the wind angle with respect to the boat very similar? And if the wind velocity is also similar, can you not make a valid comparison?
roy

 

[Vega1447]

Hi

Suggest just read COG on gps before & after tack (hard on wind in both
cases).

IMO the difference is the best measure of how close-winded a boat is..

John

V1447 Breakaway

groundhog wrote:

 

[pjacobs55]

Tacking about 100 degrees is also my experience, looking at GPS tracks. It's my understanding that furling sails are cut a bit flatter than hank-ons, so maybe this is a factor.

I sail with a 120 jib on a CDI furler with high cut foot that gives great visibility, and clears the bow pulpit and the dinghy lashed to the fore deck.

Peter
#1331 'Sin Tacha'

 

[brettgoldstone]

The answer to Roys question is yes. Still if you want to measure the pointing ability you read the compass bearings for each tack, thats it. If you race you should always use hanked on sails and change as need for long races . For bouy racing you make the best decision for conditions and stick to it. Only race with furling headsails if you are in the cruising class.
Brett

________________________________
From: groundhog groundhogyh@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 7:55:05 AM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Vega and pointing..I understand about apparent wind.
When two different boats are pointing, isn't the wind angle with respect to the boat very similar? And if the wind velocity is also similar, can you not make a valid comparison?
roy

 

[Vega1447]

Depends what you mean by pointing ability.

If you just look at the compass bearings for each tack then you ignore
leeway.

Some yachts carry more leeway than others, the depth of the keel, windage
due to high coachroof, shape of hull etc etc all playing a part.

If you use compass bearings rather than gps or other way to measure
*ground track* then imo you get a possibly excessively optimistic estimate
of pointing ability.

John V1447 Breakaway

John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)
+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)
Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...
University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927
IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website

 

[hauraki_blue]

So if a Vega is such a "pig" into the wind, how can she be a safe cruising boat - especcialyl if you ever have to beat off a lee shore?

And what about mid-ocean? Soon as the wind gets to 20 knots on the nose offshore, what happens? Ease sheets and change course, but always hoping the wind eventually moves more aft so you can get back on course?

Surely the Vega can not be this bad a sailer. Gentleman do have to sail to weather sometimes, especially if the Bay, Island or Country you are sailing too is upwind. Surely? Or am I missing something?

 

[hauraki_blue]

So if a Vega is such a "pig" into the wind, how can she be a safe cruising boat - especcialyl if you ever have to beat off a lee shore?

And what about mid-ocean? Soon as the wind gets to 20 knots on the nose offshore, what happens? Ease sheets and change course, but always hoping the wind eventually moves more aft so you can get back on course?

Surely the Vega can not be this bad a sailer. Gentleman do have to sail to weather sometimes, especially if the Bay, Island or Country you are sailing too is upwind. Surely? Or am I missing something?

 

[btfag0s]

No, she's not that bad at all, and is as good (or better) than many of a
similar age (e.g. Westerly Centaur).

Alisdair

 

[stevebirch2002]

Hi Alisdair

If I cant better than a Centaur in my Vega then I'll give up sailing!!!!! Was holding my own on Thursday with a Vancouver 35.... mind you I had just scraped the hull bottom.

Cheers

Steve