Vega and pointing..

Oct 31, 2019
562
Hi.:
I've sailed my Vega in many regattas (years ago, now I just cruise), and I have got many trophies (1st, 2nd, and 3rd) to prove
how well a Vega sails. My competitors were seasoned sailers. A Vega sails well, on the wind or off the wind. That's why I kept her so many years.
Wilhelm, V-257
 
Oct 30, 2019
574
Although not as experienced as many members on the forum, I have sailed for many years. It appears that any comments relative to the Vega's ability to point are relative to boats that seem to point much better. Certainly, compared to more modern designs, the Vega does indeed point like a bowling ball. However, compared to other full keel designs of similar size, she points extraordinarily well.

Everyone who has commented is correct. A look at the polar diagram shows that she sails best a bit past a beam reach. And although I can consistently tack within a 60 degree arc, I prefer to sail closer to 45 or 60 degrees off the wind.

Remember, most things sailing are relative to something else.

Sail away and feel good about your boat!

Jack
 
Nov 21, 2002
34
Pig? For not sailing into a head wind? If this is your expectation of any boat I suggest you stay in NZ or take a 747.
Brett

________________________________
From: hauraki_blue zanekr@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 4:51:06 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Vega and pointing..So if a Vega is such a "pig" into the wind, how can she be a safe cruising boat - especcialyl if you ever have to beat off a lee shore?

And what about mid-ocean? Soon as the wind gets to 20 knots on the nose offshore, what happens? Ease sheets and change course, but always hoping the wind eventually moves more aft so you can get back on course?

Surely the Vega can not be this bad a sailer. Gentleman do have to sail to weather sometimes, especially if the Bay, Island or Country you are sailing too is upwind. Surely? Or am I missing something?
 
Oct 30, 2019
8
Hey, whoa there Brett,
Please don't suggest what I should and should not do.
Read the post carefully again, would you mate.
I did ask if the Vega is as bad into the wind as some earlier posts were suggesting. Perhaps "pig" was not the right word, but the suggestion from a couple of posters was that she was pretty awful into the wind.
In fact, my exact words were "Surely the Vega can not be this bad a sailer". Perhaps I should have added, that she can't be that bad a sailer due to her enviable offshore record as detailed in many accounts detailed in books and articles.
So, please, don't take the high ground with me and tell me to take a 747 or other such smart alec comments. Read the post in its full context.
 
Nov 8, 2001
1,818
Now now lads......

I saw your posting and you were asking a rhetorical question so not a problem but nearly put my hackles up until I read the post twice!! Bit like saying someone's car driving is bad!!!
Dont worry we all love our vegas and it shows.

Shake hands, be nice and no fighting in the playground or teacher will get upset!!!

Cheers all

Love & peace Steve B
 
Nov 21, 2002
34
In all honesty I was only concerned with the gentlemans safety. By suggesting he stay in NZ, my birth country, I was hoping he might live a long and painless life.
Brett

________________________________
From: Steve Birch steve@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 5:39:59 AM
Subject: Re: [AlbinVega] Re: Vega and pointing..You've obviously seen both of my kids then!

LOL

Steve B
 
Nov 8, 2001
1,818
At the end of the school term there will be prizes... Remember that teacher is absolutely corruptable and can easily be bought. Presents, money, food will work!!!

Steve B
 
Jul 24, 2002
149
Hi all,

I know this topic is "old" by now, and I definitely do not want to restart
the "flame wars" about whose boat is a pig and whatnot... ;-)
However, I am somewhat confused by the whole discussion, since the
numbers quoted by people were so widely spread all over the map. I'd
like to find out how bad of a sailor I am (or how badly I need new sails or
other possible modifications to my boat), that's why some RELIABLE info
(as opposed to people shooting off the hip)
on what can be reasonably expected from a Vega would be helpful!

Let's define "pointing" as 1/2 of the difference in heading read off a good
compass right before and right after a tack (after the boat is back up to
speed and as close to the wind as possible without stalling/sail flogging etc.)
I understand that what ultimately determines your "way made towards wind" is
what the GPS tells you, but this can be affected by currents (tides) etc. and therefore
is not necessarily a good indicator of the "innate ability" of the Vega.

As for me, I can get this thus-defined angle to close to 45-50 degrees if the wind is
just right (10-15 knots). Much more wind, and I roll up some of the headsail
(roller furling) which usually leads to slightly larger pointing angles. Less wind -
nothing is reproducible anyway.

I have never heard of a sailboat (except perhaps a tricked-out professional racer) getting
closer than 30 degrees and I would be very surprised if anyone can achieve that
with their Vega (using the definition above). But I can believe that one can do
better than 45 degrees - it all depends:
Do you have hank-on jib or roller furling?
Do you have a large genoa (130% or larger) or a 100% headsail?
Do you lead the sheets (and the sail itself if it is large enough) around all of the shrouds?
How far back is your "car" (where the sheet first changes direction)?
I hope do actually learn something that I can use to point higher or get more speed
close-hauled...so any precise measurement that you can make (together with the
answer to above questions) would be much appreciated!

Sebastian (VegaLyra 1060)
 
Oct 19, 2019
921
Albin Vega 27 Limerick
Hi Sebastian,
the reason that I suggest gps be used is that (as you know) it takes
leeway into account.

To eliminate tidal effects make the (gps) measurement at
slack water..

Or (to be boringly scientific) take a succession of gps tacking angle
measurements every 10 minutes between (say) 1 hr before slack water & 1 hr
after - ideally with wind at constant angle to tide...

The "innate pointing ability" of a boat *must* take leeway into account -
measuring the tacking angle with compass will flatter the Vega as she has
relatively shallow draught.

(I still think that my Vega is great!)

John V 1447 Breakaway
John A. Kinsella Ph: +353-61-202148 (Direct)
+353-61-333644 x 2148 (Switch)
Mathematics Dept. e-mail: John.Kinsella@...
University of Limerick FAX: +353-61-334927
IRELAND Web: John Kinsella's Website
 
May 3, 2004
34
Hi!

In Sweden, the Vega is considered a boat with relatively bad pointing ability, but its of course what you compare with and your expectations. I think it point ok for a family crusing boat from 1965. My experience is that you should not try to go above 45 deegre looking at the wind indicator in the mast. It better to sail for speed instead of height in a Vega! This is especially important if the sea i shallow, since due to its relatively undeep keel and broad stem, the Vega has a tendency to drift. This was something Per Brohäll was aware of when he designed the Vega. Instead of very good pointing ability, he desided it was better with two full length beds in the front in a family boat and there for made it a litte bit rounder and not that sharp and narrow that was common in Sweden at that time! I choice I think make sense.

Yours,

Björn
Vega 2757
 

n3935j

.
Oct 31, 2019
58
Sebastian,
Sailing at 45 degrees from the "true wind" is just about the gold standard for sailing "close hauled" on most heavy displacement sail boats. A cheap and easy way to physically see how your sails are drawing for the course you are on is to use "tell tails" on your main and head sail. You can finesse your sail adjustments and course by careful attention to how they are streaming and stalling on either side of the sail . The best way to find out if you are sailing the boat at its best is to race other boats. If it's another Vega so much the better, but it doesn't have to be. If you are beating on the same course as another sailboat going to weather you'll get a good idea of how you're doing.(I call this a informal boat race.) You will be either overtaking, holding your own or falling off to leeward. The boats may be different but the conditions for all are the same, and the difference in hull speed between a
displacement boat 20 feet at the water line and one that has a 30 foot water line is only a little over 1 knot. If your boat has a clean bottom, and the sails aren't just blown out- adjusting the halyard tension, the cunningham, the jib car, the traveler, the out haul, etc. to get the draft and twist just right will all have an effect, and the conditions are always changing. It's a tweakers dream- its fun - you learn a lot and you get better! I think most sailors do this every time they go out.
Finally - why sail close hauled anyway unless you have to to clear something- just follow Per's advice in the Vega handbook and crack off a few degrees and sail fast.
Patrick

________________________________
From: brockhaus77 sekuhn@...
To: AlbinVega@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2009 3:18:57 PM
Subject: [AlbinVega] Re: Vega and pointing..Hi all,

I know this topic is "old" by now, and I definitely do not want to restart
the "flame wars" about whose boat is a pig and whatnot... ;-)
However, I am somewhat confused by the whole discussion, since the
numbers quoted by people were so widely spread all over the map. I'd
like to find out how bad of a sailor I am (or how badly I need new sails or
other possible modifications to my boat), that's why some RELIABLE info
(as opposed to people shooting off the hip)
on what can be reasonably expected from a Vega would be helpful!

Let's define "pointing" as 1/2 of the difference in heading read off a good
compass right before and right after a tack (after the boat is back up to
speed and as close to the wind as possible without stalling/sail flogging etc.)
I understand that what ultimately determines your "way made towards wind" is
what the GPS tells you, but this can be affected by currents (tides) etc. and therefore
is not necessarily a good indicator of the "innate ability" of the Vega.

As for me, I can get this thus-defined angle to close to 45-50 degrees if the wind is
just right (10-15 knots). Much more wind, and I roll up some of the headsail
(roller furling) which usually leads to slightly larger pointing angles. Less wind -
nothing is reproducible anyway.

I have never heard of a sailboat (except perhaps a tricked-out professional racer) getting
closer than 30 degrees and I would be very surprised if anyone can achieve that
with their Vega (using the definition above). But I can believe that one can do
better than 45 degrees - it all depends:
Do you have hank-on jib or roller furling?
Do you have a large genoa (130% or larger) or a 100% headsail?
Do you lead the sheets (and the sail itself if it is large enough) around all of the shrouds?
How far back is your "car" (where the sheet first changes direction)?
I hope do actually learn something that I can use to point higher or get more speed
close-hauled. ..so any precise measurement that you can make (together with the
answer to above questions) would be much appreciated!

Sebastian (VegaLyra 1060)