UV lights in Diesel tanks to inhibit growth

[Hermit Scott]

Has any one heard of using UV lights inside the tank to kill whatever is growing in there? I don't know what it is exactly that grows in the tank, maybe UV will help it grow? But if it grows in dark places it is likely that UV if strong enough will prevent it all together. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Chuckbear]

I am not sure I would want anything electrical inside my fuel tanks. The lights would have to be submerged and the lights would only be effective where they made contact, the fuel would prevent the light from penetrating enough to do any good. And the light may do little or nothing to the things that grow in fuel tanks. Chuck

 

[tommays]

Well

Its works on water BUT i would think it fail on fuel due to heat and electric use

 

[wonkodsane]

I'd be concerned about secondary effects of UV on fuel. UV's pretty energetic, hence its efficacy at killin' stuff, so it might do Bad Things™ to diesel. I would still be interested in the results of an experiment, though.

There's no reason why you couldn't seal a clear, UV-passing material into the top of the tank and then mount a UV florescent tube on top of it. Saying that you could do it doesn't mean you should, though, as you'd be putting a new hole in your tank. What do engineering risk management principles say? Is the likelihood of catastrophic failure greater due to dirty fuel in the tank or is it more likely due to a hole with a UV light shining through it?

Want to know what Mr. Long and Maine Sail have to say.

 

[Allan12210]

UV Sterilization...Good Thought, But....

UV is used in clean water systems for semiconductor device processing and making media for disc drives. Two predominant wavelengths are used...254 nanometers to kill bacteria and 185 nanometers to oxidize organic compounds that would otherwise contaminate surfaces. They take lots of power to run and have to be in stainless housings with light traps (i.e., a couple of 90 degree elbows on each end of the light housing) as stray light leakage degrades any plastic piping typically used in clean water systems. The bulbs themselves are in quartz tubes isolated from the water. That was the only material that was transparent to UV. Glass tubes absorbed too much and the desired effect was canceled. Here is a picture of three UV sterilzers in our factory in Penang, Malaysia. You can see how the light is not allowed to reach the plastic. The water would continuously circulate from the storage tank through these and we would pull from the storage tank for our process needs.

I would think exposure of diesel to UV for any period of time would lead to crosslinking and the formation of extremely gummy residues that would really bugger the fuel system up. Stick with the chemical additives and have the tank cleaned every few years.

 

[thereisabelle]

Re: UV Sterilization...Good Thought, But....

I'm with allen on this one. can't recall the name of the additive at fuel dock, but it stand to reason it there for a reason. on another note, the blue grease used to keep algie and other crap/ curruption from forming on the bushings exposed to water ie; jockey bars, steering and flanking rudders is bad stuff!! got some on my fingers and of coarse my nose itched... ATE the skin off my face from my nose to the edges of my mouth.creature features! doctor tried different ointments, and stopped after 3-4 weeks.algiecides are not nice. jimbob

 

[Dan Johnson]

Hermit...

the algae that forms in a diesel fuel tank occurs at the interface between the diesel and water that accumulates in the tank. This interface is at the bottom of the fuel, hence the bottom of the tank.

Would you want to submerge something electric requiring a lot of energy at the bottom of your tank? Not to mention what others have said about its effect on the diesel fuel itself. Startron additive seems a better solution.

 

[Hermit Scott]

Electric fuel pumps are in the tanks in cars. Gasoline is much more dangerous than diesel. But I don't particularly like the idea of electricity near my fuel, but that would be another design problem to solve. Right now I am just wondering what UV does to fuel oil and the things that live in it.
This idea has probably crossed the minds of more than one person here. There are always more than one soulution and some are better than others. I like to know why an idea sucks though. I know they use UV lights in household water supplies. I don't know how effective they are. On a boat it wouldn't have to run all the time and could run off 110 only if need be.

 

[jibes138]

Hermitt,
You are a genius, as defined by an old professor of mine. You are able to take existing things, find new applications in totally new directions. You also are a visionary looking for the possibilities of what might be and not accepting of the negative forces. I think the answer to your problem is already in this thread but I will elaborate.
The UV light does not need to be in the tank, it needs to be in the plumbing system of the tank. So you want to use it when you fill the tank, then you want to use it when you polish the tank. So you only need a small device that is connected to piping that the fuel circulates through and then goes back to the storage tank. Look at the malaysian set up for water. All you need is to scale it down, have your fuel get pumped through it and back to the tank, sort of like Rogers or Maine Sails polishing systems but with a UV light added to the loop. If the pipe is only 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter this will only need to be a really small device. I can almost smell all the money you'll make off this one. Suggest you get a lawyer and a patent quick.

 

[jibes138]

On another note, even if it is a placebo and doesn't do anything at all people will still buy it. Look at that stupid vortex thing you put in your air inlet in a car that gave you 25% more gas mileage. Or just about any infomercial on TV, people will buy all kinds of useless stuff, you just need to market it with that Slap Chop guy as the solution to all the misery in someones life.

 

[Shell]

The best way to prevent growth in diesel is to use your boat!

 

[MoonSailer]

Shell has the best ideal!!! Use your boat!!!! UV light has many problems the biggest being that the light will degrade the fuel!!!! http://www.uvsciences.com/tocreduction.html

 

[Rick Webb]

Bring the Fuel to the Light instead of Lighting the fuel

Run a clear tube around the light and keep the fuel pumping it trhough it. A filter on the sam line will keep anything else floating in the fuel out of the tank. a added benifit is you'll be less likely to get TB while on the boat

 

[Stu Jackson]

Why not just go sailing?

 

[fox islander]

I've specified UV sterilization systems for building HVAC systems (used in prisons and labs) and as im recalling it it's quite effective, tho very expensive for controlling bacteria and viruses in the return air stream. Seems that plant life would be much less affected...u know...seeing as the sun is the largest UV emmitter. I'm not a botanist tho. I just put the blue stuff in a couple times a year. Never had a problemo

 

[Hermit Scott]

Hermitt,
You are a genius, as defined by an old professor of mine. You are able to take existing things, find new applications in totally new directions. You also are a visionary looking for the possibilities of what might be and not accepting of the negative forces. I think the answer to your problem is already in this thread but I will elaborate.
The UV light does not need to be in the tank, it needs to be in the plumbing system of the tank. So you want to use it when you fill the tank, then you want to use it when you polish the tank. So you only need a small device that is connected to piping that the fuel circulates through and then goes back to the storage tank. Look at the malaysian set up for water. All you need is to scale it down, have your fuel get pumped through it and back to the tank, sort of like Rogers or Maine Sails polishing systems but with a UV light added to the loop. If the pipe is only 1/4 to 1/2 inch diameter this will only need to be a really small device. I can almost smell all the money you'll make off this one. Suggest you get a lawyer and a patent quick.

I don't think this is patentable. I am wondering why it's not done though. I have 6 patents for fitness equipment going on now, none of them have made money yet. Only one met all the criteria for an easily buildable, marketable and economically feasible. 5 weeks until that container gets here from Taiwan. (run-rocket.com) For that one I got everyone on board to supply the money, build it and sell it. Ideas are the easy part of making money. It's the rest of it that is the hard part.
I'm just kicking around ideas here. If it works and is patentable and one of you guys wants to prototype it, patent it and put all the money and time required to have it make money, then you can have it. lol I don't know the right people in the marine industry to do anything with it.
Anyway, if it does kill diesel monsters and doesn't kill the fuel, I think the lights would be best in the bottom of the tank, where the problem is. If you are going to pump the fuel out and run it out of the tank, it would be best just to run it through filters.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I am wondering why it's not done though...

With all due respect, if it's a great idea and hasn't been employed, there's usually a reason.

As an HVAC fellow myself, what works in air may not necessarily work in water, let alone diesel fuel.

As a boating "traditionalist" (i.e., someone who's been "constantly"boating for over 30 years and has been since he was 7 years old), we've seen increased technology provide us safer navigational and communications systems. Not much has changed with the basic diesel engine and fuel storage for RECREATIONAL boats.

Now, if someone with experience with larger diesel fueled vessels, like tugboats and the like, could mention that this would work and/or has been employed, I'd be all ears.

And so far, biocide and water zorb has kept my tank and fuel in fine shape for the past 13 years. I refill when it gets down to 50% (another 10 gallons in a 23 gallon tank). My fuel filters are fine when I change them once every two years or so.

Given that performance, I wouldn't want to consider any more holes in my fuel tank than necessary.

We've all heard the phrase: "Find a need and fill it." Good idea, in many cases. Last time I saw that sign was on a cement mixer truck...

I'm kinda torn here: A good idea with perhaps a limited application, or a genius with too much time on his hands???

Have a great weekend sailing.

 

[kloudie1]

Uhhhhh. There are a lot of photo-reactive bad actors in diesel.. Gum precursors.. Not a good idea to hasten the process.. The red wine color that ya see (not the pink dye) is stuff that has started to turn to polymers (plastics) .. I think UV would help that along.. Some of the newest ULSD.. ultra low sulfur diesel.. for highway use may be OK to do that with, but I would not recommend doing that. A big part of diesel is stuff that is made on a catalytic cracker as a by-product of making gasoline components.. The thermal catalytic process makes a lot of stuff that would rather be plastic (gums and poly nuclear aeromatics) and those things in the mixture we call diesel will turn to sticky stuff if given a little extra energy and a little air.
Also UV is completely stopped by plastics, so it cannot get to diesel that may be in a clear plastic tube surrounding a UV light. Tube would have to be a special glass to get good transmission.

 

[Hermit Scott]

Why not just go sailing?

I was floored when I saw what came out of Mainesail's tank. I thought that if his looks like that what hope would mine have. I think he runs his engine everyday, it is down on the dock by his house. I got to thinking about it and thought about the UV tubes for water purification. I think fuel polishing is great especially if the return tube is set up to cause the best circulation around the bottom of the tank, that idea is used on better designed water heaters to keep sediment from building up on the bottom. It makes them last much much longer.
I was just wondering if some solid state solution might be out there. Filtering it out is one way to do it, I wonder if there is a way to stop it altogether. Reading Mainesails posts, he did use a biocide. He seems to have doubts as to the effectiveness of them.

 

[kloudie1]

I definitely agree that there should be some way to keep the stuff clean, Scott.. I have an idea about using a couple of check valves, small joker type valves (5/8”), and a canister of desiccant in the fuel tank breather line. The valves can be arranged so that the tank always inhales through the desiccant but bypasses the desiccant when it exhales. The light seal of the jokers would keep the desiccant from seeing ambient air except when the tank is inhaling, maximizing its life.. I figure that if the diesel is polished and kept dry, the tank has a fighting chance of keeping the algae out..