Can anyone please advise as to how much advertised used boat prices are inflated? 5%, 10% 25%, 50%??? I've read such suggestions as "offer half the asking price!". But in most cases that seems rediculous. The other extreme is when sellers brag about how much they've spent on the boat without acknowledging how much still must be spent to maintain the boat.
Used Boat Price
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J
Jack
others will disagree with me
Others will disagree with me but I feel getting the boat that is right for you is more important than worrying about overpaying. 1st thing to do is finding a place to put your boat before you buy it, 2nd is to pick out a make and model that fits yours needs, Once you zoom in on a make/model you can shop "boat for sale" web sites to see what the selling prices are. After doing this research you should have a good feel what to offer. If I found the boat that was right for me, in perfect condition, and I really wanted to have that boat, I would offer 10/15% off the retail price(not adding $ for electronics}. If the boat has been on the market for a long time, I would try a little less. If I found a boat that wasn't right for me and it was a rat, I would offer half the asking price and be pissed at myself for buying a boat that doesn't fit my needs.
Others will disagree with me but I feel getting the boat that is right for you is more important than worrying about overpaying. 1st thing to do is finding a place to put your boat before you buy it, 2nd is to pick out a make and model that fits yours needs, Once you zoom in on a make/model you can shop "boat for sale" web sites to see what the selling prices are. After doing this research you should have a good feel what to offer. If I found the boat that was right for me, in perfect condition, and I really wanted to have that boat, I would offer 10/15% off the retail price(not adding $ for electronics}. If the boat has been on the market for a long time, I would try a little less. If I found a boat that wasn't right for me and it was a rat, I would offer half the asking price and be pissed at myself for buying a boat that doesn't fit my needs.
S
sailordude
Its obvious your new to boating
Its obvious you're new to sailing at least anyway. That's not a bad thing either. Before you can offer any amount of money you'll need a haul out. Don't be a cheapskate if you're getting ready to insult the seller with a rediculous offer be ready to carry through with your macho self. If you DIDN't ask for a haulout he'll lie his ass off to you cause he knows he's got a grape (you're the grape by the way). Yes there are people out there that can sway you with price and another with features. What you need to know won't cost you much at all and as far and as to the percentage of markup? Thats irrelevant. My advise is to find 3 boat surveyors (time in business speaks for itself)and make the agreement with them that you want him to explain each and every thing he checks and why. Do this on a boat you're rather fond of and seriously concidering if possible. The knowledge you'll amass will help you to make an intelligent (monatary) choice and a safer choice. Now question your ability to swim. There's no amount of savings worth putting yours' or you're families/friends life in perils. As far as buying a boat to fix it up and make money on it if those are your thoughts? DON'T!!
Its obvious you're new to sailing at least anyway. That's not a bad thing either. Before you can offer any amount of money you'll need a haul out. Don't be a cheapskate if you're getting ready to insult the seller with a rediculous offer be ready to carry through with your macho self. If you DIDN't ask for a haulout he'll lie his ass off to you cause he knows he's got a grape (you're the grape by the way). Yes there are people out there that can sway you with price and another with features. What you need to know won't cost you much at all and as far and as to the percentage of markup? Thats irrelevant. My advise is to find 3 boat surveyors (time in business speaks for itself)and make the agreement with them that you want him to explain each and every thing he checks and why. Do this on a boat you're rather fond of and seriously concidering if possible. The knowledge you'll amass will help you to make an intelligent (monatary) choice and a safer choice. Now question your ability to swim. There's no amount of savings worth putting yours' or you're families/friends life in perils. As far as buying a boat to fix it up and make money on it if those are your thoughts? DON'T!!
S
sailordude
New to Boating are you?
Its obvious you're new to sailing at least anyway. That's not a bad thing either. Before you can offer any amount of money you'll need a haul out. Don't be a cheapskate if you're getting ready to insult the seller with a rediculous offer be ready to carry through with your macho self. If you DIDN't ask for a haulout he'll lie his ass off to you cause he knows he's got a grape (you're the grape by the way). Yes there are people out there that can sway you with price and another with features. What you need to know won't cost you much at all and as far and as to the percentage of markup? Thats irrelevant. My advise is to find 3 boat surveyors (time in business speaks for itself)and make the agreement with the best one that you want him to explain each and every thing he checks and why. Do this on a boat you're rather fond of and seriously concidering if possible. The knowledge you'll amass will help you to make an intelligent (monatary) choice and a safer choice. Now question your ability to swim. There's no amount of savings worth putting yours' or you're families/friends life in perils. As far as buying a boat to fix it up and make money on it if those are your thoughts? DON'T!!
Its obvious you're new to sailing at least anyway. That's not a bad thing either. Before you can offer any amount of money you'll need a haul out. Don't be a cheapskate if you're getting ready to insult the seller with a rediculous offer be ready to carry through with your macho self. If you DIDN't ask for a haulout he'll lie his ass off to you cause he knows he's got a grape (you're the grape by the way). Yes there are people out there that can sway you with price and another with features. What you need to know won't cost you much at all and as far and as to the percentage of markup? Thats irrelevant. My advise is to find 3 boat surveyors (time in business speaks for itself)and make the agreement with the best one that you want him to explain each and every thing he checks and why. Do this on a boat you're rather fond of and seriously concidering if possible. The knowledge you'll amass will help you to make an intelligent (monatary) choice and a safer choice. Now question your ability to swim. There's no amount of savings worth putting yours' or you're families/friends life in perils. As far as buying a boat to fix it up and make money on it if those are your thoughts? DON'T!!
D
Dave
No Rule of Thumb
There's no set mark up in my experience. Buying a boat is a lot like buying anything else of comparable cost -- you need to do your research and then use your head when negotiating. If you are in fact new to the sport -- and good for you if you are -- then you may find it easier to research the value of a model that is popular. I did this with my first big boat -- a Catalina 30; I was able to determine the real going rate pretty easily because so many of them are on the market at any time and if you watch the market for a while you can see which prices sell and which languish. Some boats are priced to sell, while others are listed at ridiculous prices just so the owner can tell the admiral he's trying to sell. FWIW, I got about 15% off the asking price for mine, but I also knew it was priced to sell -- ie, already about 10-15% under the asking price for similar boats. Remember, it almost always a buyer's market because the only person who ever really needed a boat was Noah. Good luck.
There's no set mark up in my experience. Buying a boat is a lot like buying anything else of comparable cost -- you need to do your research and then use your head when negotiating. If you are in fact new to the sport -- and good for you if you are -- then you may find it easier to research the value of a model that is popular. I did this with my first big boat -- a Catalina 30; I was able to determine the real going rate pretty easily because so many of them are on the market at any time and if you watch the market for a while you can see which prices sell and which languish. Some boats are priced to sell, while others are listed at ridiculous prices just so the owner can tell the admiral he's trying to sell. FWIW, I got about 15% off the asking price for mine, but I also knew it was priced to sell -- ie, already about 10-15% under the asking price for similar boats. Remember, it almost always a buyer's market because the only person who ever really needed a boat was Noah. Good luck.
Boat Prices
As mentioned above, determine the overall condition of the boat. Once that is complete, check the following sites for prices of similar boats...this will give you at least a ballpark figure of what it should cost: www.yachtworld.com www.catalinaowners.com www.boatus.com www.ablboats.com www.boats.com www.sailboatlistings.com/
As mentioned above, determine the overall condition of the boat. Once that is complete, check the following sites for prices of similar boats...this will give you at least a ballpark figure of what it should cost: www.yachtworld.com www.catalinaowners.com www.boatus.com www.ablboats.com www.boats.com www.sailboatlistings.com/
Thanks for Excellent Advice
Yes -I'm totally new to sailing, but the bug bit me last year and there's no turning back. I've done research on selecting, buying, and surveying sailboats ad nauseum, having read three or four books on the subject, searching the net every night for the past year (my other half calls it looking at "Boat Porn" and yes, I'm addicted to it). Took a week of formal sailing lessons (of course, that's just the beginning) and have sailed on OPB's whenever possible. Also invested in a frigging library of sailing books and videos. Bottom line: I need my own boat on which to practice, practice, practice. There's nothing like real experience. And experience = safety. I have found a specific well-maintained boat that I want to marry, but that's currently illegal in the lower 48. Just didn't know how much to pay for my bride. So, I looked over the last six months of internet ads and Latitude38 mags, then telephoned four people advertising boats similar to the one that I want, whose ads disappeared (I figured they'd sold). Then I asked them if they'd share how much they got vs. the asking price. Big surprise: not that much less than asking price -- except for one that had a major surprise at haul-out time when major gelcoat cracks were discovered. Have also discovered www.bucnet.com for a general guideline. Am absolutely not interested in even considering the foolish prospect of "gaining" profit from buying a boat! And, don't want to loose the future love of my life over a few grand. Sailordude - of course I'm inexperienced, but I'm not dumb nor am I macho, so put your shirt back on already. I have a surveyor already chosen, but your advice: "and make the agreement with them that you want him to explain each and every thing he checks and why. Do this on a boat you're rather fond of and seriously concidering if possible" is priceless. Thanks for the great advice; I'm now ready to move on this thing. And regarding safety for all of you SF Bay sailors: If you're planning on sailing anywhere south of the Bay Bridge this winter and spring, DON"T. That's where I'll be practising my jibes and MOB's...
Yes -I'm totally new to sailing, but the bug bit me last year and there's no turning back. I've done research on selecting, buying, and surveying sailboats ad nauseum, having read three or four books on the subject, searching the net every night for the past year (my other half calls it looking at "Boat Porn" and yes, I'm addicted to it). Took a week of formal sailing lessons (of course, that's just the beginning) and have sailed on OPB's whenever possible. Also invested in a frigging library of sailing books and videos. Bottom line: I need my own boat on which to practice, practice, practice. There's nothing like real experience. And experience = safety. I have found a specific well-maintained boat that I want to marry, but that's currently illegal in the lower 48. Just didn't know how much to pay for my bride. So, I looked over the last six months of internet ads and Latitude38 mags, then telephoned four people advertising boats similar to the one that I want, whose ads disappeared (I figured they'd sold). Then I asked them if they'd share how much they got vs. the asking price. Big surprise: not that much less than asking price -- except for one that had a major surprise at haul-out time when major gelcoat cracks were discovered. Have also discovered www.bucnet.com for a general guideline. Am absolutely not interested in even considering the foolish prospect of "gaining" profit from buying a boat! And, don't want to loose the future love of my life over a few grand. Sailordude - of course I'm inexperienced, but I'm not dumb nor am I macho, so put your shirt back on already. I have a surveyor already chosen, but your advice: "and make the agreement with them that you want him to explain each and every thing he checks and why. Do this on a boat you're rather fond of and seriously concidering if possible" is priceless. Thanks for the great advice; I'm now ready to move on this thing. And regarding safety for all of you SF Bay sailors: If you're planning on sailing anywhere south of the Bay Bridge this winter and spring, DON"T. That's where I'll be practising my jibes and MOB's...
Profit from a boat
I have never lost money on a boat in over 30 years of boat buying. But that's just me. I look for the "diamond in the rough" so to speak. My hobby is restoring neglected boats, and I have enjoyed sailing many of them after restoration and prior to resale. One thing about "plastic", you can always rebuild it. You have to really, really, really enjoy working on a boat though.
I have never lost money on a boat in over 30 years of boat buying. But that's just me. I look for the "diamond in the rough" so to speak. My hobby is restoring neglected boats, and I have enjoyed sailing many of them after restoration and prior to resale. One thing about "plastic", you can always rebuild it. You have to really, really, really enjoy working on a boat though.
On a fairly priced boat an initial offer 10% or
15% below asking is very reasonable. Even more than a car people attach an emotional value to their boats. Items found on the survey are open to negotiation, usually not expected or previously revealed or known deficiencies. Since you really want to learn to sail well get a boat that will do so right away. It always seems backward to me when people say they want to fix up a boat & then learn to sail. They are 2 different activities, you can either "rebuild" a boat or sail it, but tough to do both at once. I can't throw a rock in my marina without hitting a "nice" old boat that someone bought at a bargain price and has been working on for the last couple of years. You wouldn't knowingly buy a car with problems, don't buy a boat that "just needs a little work & you can go sailing".
15% below asking is very reasonable. Even more than a car people attach an emotional value to their boats. Items found on the survey are open to negotiation, usually not expected or previously revealed or known deficiencies. Since you really want to learn to sail well get a boat that will do so right away. It always seems backward to me when people say they want to fix up a boat & then learn to sail. They are 2 different activities, you can either "rebuild" a boat or sail it, but tough to do both at once. I can't throw a rock in my marina without hitting a "nice" old boat that someone bought at a bargain price and has been working on for the last couple of years. You wouldn't knowingly buy a car with problems, don't buy a boat that "just needs a little work & you can go sailing".
D
Don
Offering Price
With owners being emotionally attached to their boats, they at times don't have a realistic idea of what their boat is worth and price them too high for the market. I've known people who've had boats on the market for years waiting for someone to pay them what they think is a fair price only to watch the boats deteriorate as time goes by. As my Dad always says, "Something is only worth what someone else will pay for it". When buying boats (or anything) I allow the seller to take the first deduction by asking the seller, "What's your best price?" If they think they might have a potential sale, they might come down considerably to seal the deal. Even when someone lists a price as "firm" there is still wiggle room. If there best price is "fair" I'll take it. If I think it's too high still, I'll either walk away or counter offer accordingly. The last two boats I bought were "pinch me" deals in that due to seller circumstances, I was able to get them for 30-40% of their fair market value. Needless to say, I took their "best price" offers. Good Luck.
With owners being emotionally attached to their boats, they at times don't have a realistic idea of what their boat is worth and price them too high for the market. I've known people who've had boats on the market for years waiting for someone to pay them what they think is a fair price only to watch the boats deteriorate as time goes by. As my Dad always says, "Something is only worth what someone else will pay for it". When buying boats (or anything) I allow the seller to take the first deduction by asking the seller, "What's your best price?" If they think they might have a potential sale, they might come down considerably to seal the deal. Even when someone lists a price as "firm" there is still wiggle room. If there best price is "fair" I'll take it. If I think it's too high still, I'll either walk away or counter offer accordingly. The last two boats I bought were "pinch me" deals in that due to seller circumstances, I was able to get them for 30-40% of their fair market value. Needless to say, I took their "best price" offers. Good Luck.
Do I have this Straight?
Let me see if I understand this: All of you folks who proclaim that boat prices should automatically be discounted 10-15% or more actually price your own boats 10-15% over what you think it should actually sell for? What happened to offering a product at a price reasonably close to market price and working from there? In my opinion, automatically discounting someone's price by 15% - without knowing what market value really is - is wasting the seller's time at best, and insulting at worst. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
Let me see if I understand this: All of you folks who proclaim that boat prices should automatically be discounted 10-15% or more actually price your own boats 10-15% over what you think it should actually sell for? What happened to offering a product at a price reasonably close to market price and working from there? In my opinion, automatically discounting someone's price by 15% - without knowing what market value really is - is wasting the seller's time at best, and insulting at worst. Tim Brogan April IV C350 #68 Seattle
C
Clark
Poseidonian, IMHO they are a lot like . . .
automobiles. There has been much good advice posted by others but I'll add $.02. Do research for a normal selling price for what you are interested in. That's SELLING, not asking which can be a found by getting a friendly broker to run "comps" on the make/model boat you're looking for. IF you have found one that looks like a great candidate, an offer of 10 - 15% below asking price is neither offensive nor overly time consuming. It is after all a negotiation to find the lowest price the owner is willing to accept. Another reason I liken them to automobiles is that usually the older ones sell for prices based on their condition and not so much age - that makes it tougher to determine a fair price. Best of luck and keep us posted on how/what you do.
automobiles. There has been much good advice posted by others but I'll add $.02. Do research for a normal selling price for what you are interested in. That's SELLING, not asking which can be a found by getting a friendly broker to run "comps" on the make/model boat you're looking for. IF you have found one that looks like a great candidate, an offer of 10 - 15% below asking price is neither offensive nor overly time consuming. It is after all a negotiation to find the lowest price the owner is willing to accept. Another reason I liken them to automobiles is that usually the older ones sell for prices based on their condition and not so much age - that makes it tougher to determine a fair price. Best of luck and keep us posted on how/what you do.
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