USCG Inquiry Begins - Bounty

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RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Ultimately the reason for this disaster will be attributed to 'engine filters' and dirty fuel tank as the originating cause .... A fuel tank that released its alphatic debris (a mixture of fungal deposits and their products of metabolism) from the tank walls.

The usage of 2µM filters, being much smaller in retention size for normal marine diesel recommended operation, quickly and/or repeatedly 'choked' rendering the engine inoperative and the ship unable to maneuver.
I keep stating over and over and over again that 2µM requires 5 times the operational differential pressure across it to deliver the exact same flow rate as a 10µM (10µM the nominal choice for marine diesels) and when the flow is loaded with 'normal' debris will foul 5 times FASTER than a 10µM.
So in effect using a 2µM in place of a 10µM, takes 5 times the amount of 'work', loads up with debris 5 times 'faster' and builds vacuum 5 times faster while doing so ..... and if you exceed the vacuum motive pressures developed by the lift pump to operate the filters ... you are 'done'. Couple that filter failure (choice of µM retention) and a failure to do routine tank cleaning maintenance which most probably led to the chain of event that caused most of ALL the other failures ... structural, navigational, etc.

Like aerodynamics and airstream flow over sails, filters are NOT 'intuitive' and you really should use what has been clearly recommended by engine manufacturers and 'ethical' marine filter manufacturers.

As stated, this ship sinking will ultimately be determined to be caused by the inappropriate usage of a $25 'filter' .... as the primary cause that led to all the subsequent 'chain of events' mini-disasters that occurred. It will probably be 'rationalized' as the trigger that caused all the rest of the causes. Very sad.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,760
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Maine,

Was this before or after the 2007/ 2010 replanking of the sides and transom.

Dave
Dave,

I saw her on the rails at Boothbay Harbor Shipyard no less that three times. The most extensive re-fit I saw was the below waterline re-planking back in the early 2000's. Problem was there was nothing much to fasten the planks to.... One would have to ask, if she was completely re-planked in the early 2000's what structural issues could POSSIBLY cause her to need to be re-planed again only a few years later.....????? The rot was so extensive back than I was shocked to see them slapping on new planks over the sad structure. A real "lipstick on a pig" event. The later re-planking also replaced SOME ribs but only the worst of the worst... The stem was cut out in one of the re-fits but I can't recall which one..

I posted/hot linked to NUMEROUS photos from her re-fits at Boothbay. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN WIPED CLEAN FROM THE NET INCLUDING INTERNET ARCHIVE SEARCHES....

Why? What are they trying to hide? I said it back in October and I will say it again this vessel was not fit for open ocean sailing let alone sailing directly into a hurricane. I don't need to read stories in Outside Magazine or anywhere else as I saw the derelict condition of this vessel with my own eyes on multiple occasions right down to her structural level.

Even more telling of her level of care, or lack there of, is a photo posted by Roger Long of her fuel filers. The fuel in them was as black as coffee. We now know they stuffed 2 micron filters in there, perhaps in an attempt to remedy an "issue", but this was a VERY BAD decision...

Why would anyone go to such great lengths to erase such images from history? It seems quite interesting & telling to me that the only images of her that remain in Boothbay are with fresh coats of paint, a highly varnished wheel & spit shined ready for launch. You can put a prom dress on a pig but she's still a pig... The real meat and potatoes images have been ripped from internet history...

BTW the fuel in the CLEAR racor bowls should be red NOT black like coffee...



Here are two image addresses of some HORRIFYING photos that have been erased from history.. They were from 2007 well after the major re-fit in the early 2000's..

From 2007

http://www.tallshipbounty.org/photo...nKjU4YmI2Y2QwMjVjNDc4OTJmMGQ1YTU3MzU2ZDA2MmU4


http://www.tallshipbounty.org/photo...nKjgxMzNjZTUwYjhjMjdlMTU4MzczOGM0N2E5NzE2N2Qx
 
Sep 15, 2009
6,244
S2 9.2a Fairhope Al
Here are two image addresses of some HORRIFYING photos that have been erased from history.. They were from 2007 well after the major re-fit in the early 2000's..

From 2007

http://www.tallshipbounty.org/photo...nKjU4YmI2Y2QwMjVjNDc4OTJmMGQ1YTU3MzU2ZDA2MmU4


http://www.tallshipbounty.org/photo...nKjgxMzNjZTUwYjhjMjdlMTU4MzczOGM0N2E5NzE2N2Qx
well somebody is on the job when it comes to pic eradication ..... theses pics you just posted wont come up on my screen ....message says file not found 404 ....

regards

woody
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,760
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
well somebody is on the job when it comes to pic eradication ..... theses pics you just posted wont come up on my screen ....message says file not found 404 ....

regards

woody
EXACTLY and why I said "Here are two image addresses" those are the addresses I used in Nov 2012 to show the condition of the vessel as I saw it. They have BEEN ERASED even from archive searches...

It's a good thing that the employee at BSY took some photos because the pics that were at tallshipbounty.org have been removed. All historical photos of the structure of the ship during re-fits have VANISHED off the net.. If you have nothing to hide why go to such great lengths to eradicate the images from even "archived" search engines...???
 
Nov 6, 2006
10,218
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
I'll bet on Roger as well, since he had been peripherally involved in comments on a different tall ship's sinking .. The Concordia, I think.
 
May 27, 2012
1,152
Oday 222 Beaver Lake, Arkansas
The pics are out there. I know there are others like myself who fill up their hardrive with pics off the internet so they can study them offline. I dont have any of Bounty, but I do have a "sailboat" file filled with 100's of images.

I would like to see the 29 pics shown at the hearing yesterday.
 
Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
The Concordia, I think.
Not too much on Concordia except for Internet posts but I have multiple line entries in the index of "Tall Ships Down", involved with inquiry or analysis of three of the five vessels discussed, and the two books on the Pride of Baltimore sinking.
 
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Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
Roger, maybe you or Maine has older photos? I guess I wouldn't want to get caught up in the inquisition either, but I'd like to see some real photos, (besides those brochure pictures Boothbay has posted).

There's probably scads of lawyers and adjusters wringing their hands right now..
 
May 24, 2004
7,215
CC 30 South Florida
Speculation that perhaps the owners wanted the ship to be lost seem to be unfounded. If that were the case they would have instructed the Captain to remain at the dock where it was likely to be reduced to matchsticks by the pounding it would have recieved from the storm.
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
The shipwright from Boothbay Harbor Shipyard showed up at the CG Inquiry with a book full of photos and tale of warning:
The wooden tall ship Bounty set sail toward Hurricane Sandy with an unknown amount of rot in its frame despite warnings from a shipwright that had recently worked on the boat, according to testimony heard Wednesday.
Todd Kosakowski, a project manager at Boothbay Harbor Shipyard in Maine, said the rot was found when replacing two interior planks the Bounty crew targeted for repair. ...


The Virginia Pilot

 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
i THINK Rick nailed it. had the generators and engines continued to work, the pumps would have worked, and she might have actually made it.

-from what I saw and read, she didn't break up, despite the enormous rot. she filled with water and eventually sank. due to those incorrect 20 dollar filters.
-would not be the 1st time a boat was lost due to lack of filters.
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
The crew testified that the generators ran until flooding shut them down. The fuel filters were not an issue. The boat was leaking badly, and she was being knocked down by hurricane force conditions and decreasing buoyancy. No generator, no pumps.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,760
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
i THINK Rick nailed it. had the generators and engines continued to work, the pumps would have worked, and she might have actually made it.

-from what I saw and read, she didn't break up, despite the enormous rot. she filled with water and eventually sank. due to those incorrect 20 dollar filters.
-would not be the 1st time a boat was lost due to lack of filters.
In today's testimony it was estimated that the gallons per MINUTE leakage of this "ship" at 800GPM!!!!!! That is 48,000 gallons per hour of LEAKS....... :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I will say it over and over. That ship never should have been on the open ocean let alone sailing into a hurricane. Ships should not have to rely on mechanical pumps, on a continuous basis, to remain afloat... I guess the Home Depot quality DAP 33 is not "marine rated" for a good reason........;););););)
 
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eliems

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Apr 26, 2011
102
Hunter H28 Port Moody
is it true that the Captain was a descendant of Bligh and the deceased girl was a descendant of Fletcher Christian?

that would be too weird!
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
-LOL, OK Maine, that would need to be a huge pump... but I do wonder what the 'normal' leaking rate was...


any other pictures of this boat's structure?
 

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Nov 22, 2008
3,562
Endeavour 32 Portland, Maine
It is becoming increasingly apparent that, even apart from the decision to sail, the guy in charge of the ship (I refuse to dignify him with the title "master" or "captain" anymore) was just as leaky in his seamanship and common sense as the hull.

http://gcaptain.com/cost-bounty-hearings/

If you have the bandwidth (which I dearly wish I did) don't miss the live testimony of Dan Moreland and Jan Miles today.

http://www.wavy.com/generic/news/hms-bounty-hearings
 
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