USCG Inquiry Begins - Bounty

keys please · Feb 13, 2013

What a tragedy, what a shame..... why on earth were they out there... thanks for sharing these sites....

Rob2435 · Feb 13, 2013

The captain sounded a bit cocky and seemded to forget that nature is not predictable. Plus, he had a schedule which he was trying to keep, that, with the approaching weather, is only setting yourself up for problems.

The Weather Channel aired a documentary about the sinking and rescue of the crew.

http://www.weather.com/tv/tvshows/coast-guard-hms-bounty-rescue/main

MrBill_FLL · Feb 13, 2013

cnn - capt's wife http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/12/us/bounty-captain-widow/index.html?iref=allsearch

anchorclanker · Feb 13, 2013

Deferred maintenance, if not outright neglect. The ship needed much more restoration and quality repairs, and received so little, just enough to "look" good for sponsors and visitors.

The crew were disillusioned, and likely chosen because they could be so easily BS'ed into going along with the "dream". Several of the crew admit to either hearing Walbridge claim he had been in other Hurricanes before, while others participated.

I once again find myself questioning if the loss of the ship wasnt planned. According to the crew, as well as the website itself, Walbridge stated they would sail east several hundred miles before turning south around the east side of Sandy. Yet the plot shows them turning SW as soon as they cleared port. Walbridge lied to his crew. His first and second stood by and followed him. No one attempted to stop Walbridge.

It is my belief that the owner wanted the ship to be lost, and Walbridge went along by sailing her into the storm. That maybe the 2 micron filters weren't an accident. They knew how fast she was taking water, and how much the ship relied on all its engines.

That Hansen refused to testify, using his fifth amendment rights, is quite telling, IMHO. That none of the survivors were met, visited, or contacted after their rescue, by either Hansen or Simmone, is simply sad and just as telling.

Some say it was a cheap movie prop. I disagree, as it is stated that it was built to original plans. It didnt last 50 years, and survive the last 20 or so with extensive rot and decay by being built poorly. She lasted much longer than ships like her lasted from that particular era. Even the best ship can be lost if its not cared for and pushed into dangerous conditions.

I have always wanted to build a good quality tall sailing ship model, a real frame built wooden one. I never have, and could never decide on which one either. But Bounty was always in my top 3 or top 5. If I ever get the bug to build one, there is no longer any doubt as to which one I will attempt. Rest in Peace Bounty. Your only sin was in being crewed by a ship of fools. You held out till the last were away, you were a lady to the end.

zeehag · Feb 13, 2013

the boat was recently hauled and recaulked.
is amazing the damage an angry ocean can wreak upon a boat hull--especially a wooden boat hull. they twistoflex and caulking fails--and must be redone. they had modern enough equipment to try to keep out the water, but then the failure of the generator made that not a possibility any longer, and union scale doesnt cover caulking between the devil and the deep blue sea. so she sank.
is hard to believe a boat that is hauled so frequently could be poorly maintained. poor planning for departure, yes.
some crew members had been with boat many years.

anchorclanker · Feb 13, 2013

http://www.wavetrain.net/news-a-views/426-hms-bounty-how-sound-was-she

http://www.mvgazette.com/news/2009/02/12/schooner-high-and-dry-repairs-again

Chef2sail · Feb 13, 2013

Link to Bounty Hearings Web Stream- Approx 0900-1700

http://www.wavy.com/generic/news/hms-bounty-hearings

Roger Long · Feb 14, 2013

zeehag said:
the boat was recently hauled and recaulked.

Yes, but if the information that is coming to light is correct, much of it was done by the crew with Bondo and DAP after the captain (whether the owner was involved in this decision will likely be the subject of litigation for years) declined to have additional structure work performed that was recommended by the shipyard.

The project manager testified yesterday that the Captain was shocked by the structural condition of the ship and says he told guy sailing it (I'm sorry, I can't call him a "Captain" any more. I've known too many Masters of large sailing vessels to use that term in this case.) that he should avoid heavy weather until after the next major reconstruction.

If there is such a thing as a lore of the sea 100 years from now, this ship is going to be as famous as her predecessor is now as an example of human failings and hubris. It is beginning to look as though this voyage could have been considered negligent if undertaken in the middle of a fine summer high. It certainly wouldn't have been legal if the vessel had been USCG inspected for passenger carrying.

Chris Patterson · Feb 14, 2013

I'll say again, arrogance and cockiness at the very best, and no doubt some level of insanity. At first I said suicide and a scuttling, but I'm not too sure about that. I just think this mans ego swamped that boat. Absolutely unbelievable on so many levels.

Unlike that worm Schettino, at least he had the decency to go down with the ship.

Maine Sail · Feb 14, 2013

zeehag said:
the boat was recently hauled and recaulked.

Zee,

With all due respect to the net rumors..

I PHYSICALLY SAW AND WALKED AROUND THIS BOAT AT BOOTHBAY SHIPYARD...... TWICE!

IMHO she was a DERELICT and UNSAFE FOR MORE THAN CROSSING A BAY LET ALONE VENTURING INTO A HURRICANE. You could not have paid me to be crew on that boat to sail across even Penobscot Bay..

I saw her on two occasions at Boothbay Shipyard on the rails. Sadly I assumed she was a dockside attraction and chalked that up to the lack of structural repairs being done. If I known she actually sailed the ocean blue I would have taken photos and posted them here for discussion. I assumed based on her condition that she was like Old Ironsides never to move other than from where she was "patched up"...

From what I saw both times only the worst of the worst timbers were replaced. What was not replaced was in very, very sad shape. I could physically see into the ribs 6" above the waterline in areas that were not getting repaired. The rot and degradation of this vessel, from what I physically saw walking around her TWICE less than 6" away from her with my own eyes, she required a full re-build not a tree-fort level patch up...

MrBill_FLL · Feb 14, 2013

any idea why the ship turned south, vs the original plan to go east. -that does seem like an illogical decision.

anchorclanker · Feb 14, 2013

MrBill_FLL said:
any idea why the ship turned south, vs the original plan to go east. -that does seem like an illogical decision.

Why do businesses that are failing suddenly catch fire at 4:00 AM when no ones around?

By the testimony thats now coming forth, she was so rotted that it would likely have exceeded her $4.6 million asking price (she had been for sale since 2010, with no bites) to restore her back to seaworthy condition.

There is absolutely no doubt that she was worth much more to the owner on the bottom of the ocean. The trick will be in proving he knew she was rotted to that extent, and was in cahoots with Walbridge to "do something about it". Pleading the fifth yesterday certainly doesn't help exonerate him of that charge. Walbridge telling his crew he would take Bounty east around the east side of Sandy before turning south, to con them all aboard, then turning SSW directly into Sandy's eye as soon as they cleared port, that doesnt help the owners case either.

anchorclanker · Feb 14, 2013

gCaptain has a forum discussion on Bounty, dating back to the day she was lost. There are some very harsh comments, but is some of the best discussion I have read about the entire incident.

MrBill_FLL · Feb 14, 2013

link:
http://gcaptain.com/rotted-frames-bounty/

is there a forum thread?

this one?

http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/10134-hms-bounty-hurricane-sandy.html

Maine Sail · Feb 14, 2013

MrBill_FLL said:
link:
http://gcaptain.com/rotted-frames-bounty/

is there a forum thread?

this one?

http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/10134-hms-bounty-hurricane-sandy.html

Sounds like my assessment of what I saw was not just an "opinion" and now has been confirmed in testimony that the vessel was badly rotted.

I spoke to the rot and derelict state of this vessel back in October of 2012. It is amazing that people are shocked by this news....

Bounty A Derelict IMHO

Calif. Ted · Feb 14, 2013

It was certified as a "dockside attraction", when I saw an ancient glass bottom boat (like in the Doris Day movie) leaving Newport, CA one morning I thought it a hallucination. Turned out the new owner loaded it with 55 gallon drums of extra diesel to head north to Oregon and make it into a restaurant. The only surprise about that "dockside attraction" sinking was that it made close to 75 NM before going to the bottom like a stone.
I don't understand how an experienced seaman (captain, officer) could endanger his crew, that violates the prime directive of command.
"everyone gets to come home"

Chris Patterson · Feb 14, 2013

You know, you never know what goes on in a mans head. The obvious decision to sail right through the storm intact would have made him a "hero", and maybe elevated the ships worth.

He gambled big, and lost. And knew that could very well be an option.

While I think that no seafaring man could be that stupid to think it will make it, I still think probably knowing the boat was on her dying days, and being intimately involved with his ship, he decided to kill 'er, and himself as well.

I am however pissed off at the first officer. When I have been second in command of a vessel, and I know somebodies safety, or danger to the boat is imminent, I would assume command of the ship. Never have I had to do this, on one trip I did consider it though. Other than the entire crew being sick as a dog, (myself included), I had to make a hard decision that would have had many consequences had I done this, so I didn't. He paid for it. Good lesson.
To assume command of a ship is tantamount to mutiny. But in an extreme situation sometimes it's warranted. It really would have taken some gonads to step up to the wheel. And the first, and second officer didn't have them.
And while you couldn't call them criminally negligent for not doing it, their resume wouldn't qualify them to pull shrimp nets again. Screw Walbridge. He paid for his decision.
An inquiry is pointless. It's just insurance haggling now. The boat and primary operator are gone now. Settle the financial ruin and move on.

The crew has had enough. I feel deeply terrible for them all.

Chef2sail · Feb 14, 2013

Maine Sail said:
Zee,

With all due respect to the net rumors..

I PHYSICALLY SAW AND WALKED AROUND THIS BOAT AT BOOTHBAY SHIPYARD...... TWICE!

IMHO she was a DERELICT and UNSAFE FOR MORE THAN CROSSING A BAY LET ALONE VENTURING INTO A HURRICANE. You could not have paid me to be crew on that boat to sail across even Penobscot Bay..

I saw her on two occasions at Boothbay Shipyard on the rails. Sadly I assumed she was a dockside attraction and chalked that up to the lack of structural repairs being done. If I known she actually sailed the ocean blue I would have taken photos and posted them here for discussion. I assumed based on her condition that she was like Old Ironsides never to move other than from where she was "patched up"...

From what I saw both times only the worst of the worst timbers were replaced. What was not replaced was in very, very sad shape. I could physically see into the ribs 6" above the waterline in areas that were not getting repaired. The rot and degradation of this vessel, from what I physically saw walking around her TWICE less than 6" away from her with my own eyes, she required a full re-build not a tree-fort level patch up...

Maine,

Was this before or after the 2007/ 2010 replanking of the sides and transom.

Dave