Urgent Question - PHC Upgrade from Jabsco

[PKFK]

I also asked this in the head mistriss forum - but it seem quiet over there so asking here as well (apologies if this is a problem...)

The boat is torn apart and I want to get it back together sooner rather than later !!

I am installing a PHC-LBA conversion kit that I purchased from SBO.com.

I have a question about the installation of the old (Jabsco ) bowl on the new PHC base.

The schematic diagram supplied shows the bolt (part F081) coming up thru the new base, passing thru the Bowl Gasket (Part 1234), and has a "nylon shoulder washer" (part RNI) that seems to be shown on the drawing as being on top of the Bowl Gasket. But the diagram does not show the bowl....... WHERE EXACTLY DOES THE RNI nylon shoulder washer GO IN RELATION TO THE BOWL ???


Is this "nylon shoulder washer" supposed to be on top of the Bowl Gasket - but BELOW the bowl ? (as in - sandwiched between the bowl and the gasket ?)

Or is is supposed to be between the top of the bowl and the Nut (part 1226B) ??

I see 2 options for the stacking of the parts: (top down order)

OPTION 1:

Nut (1226B)
Nylon shoulder washer (RNI)
Bowl (old Jabsco Bowl)
Bowl Gasket (1234)
Base (1301 PW)
Bowl Bolt (F081)

OPTION 2:

Nut (1226B)
Bowl (old Jabsco Bowl)
Nylon shoulder washer (RNI)
Bowl Gasket (1234)
Base (1301 PW)
Bowl Bolt (F081)

Can anyone clarify this for me ???? I am stumped on this one and the supplied schematics totally ignore the bowl in all diagrams....

Thanks,

Paul

 

[woodster]

i could be incorrect here but option #1 would be my guess as option # 2 would defete the purpose of the bowl gasket ...imho

regards
woody

 

[MrBee]

Without looking at a diagram or manual I would have to agree with woodster.

Brian

 

[Bob 04 H260]

I just did that conversion on my boat. I put the shoulder washers on top so they would allow the bolts to pass through the holes in the bowl without any metal touching the glass flange. The shoulder keeps the bolts away from the sides of the holes.
It works fine this way. Be sure you do not over tighten the bolts or the flange will crack, just snug is good.
Bob

 

[PKFK]

Thanks everyone for the input.....that was also my thought as well - but when the diagram is uncear it's certainly best to ask.

Funny to get a reply from Ottawa - (I sail out of BYC - S/V Hyacinth) - I have *never* heard of anyone with a Rairitan head around here - everyone has those crappy Jabsco units.

The conversion kit seems like a great idea. I replaced the holding tank and all hoses as well and am just going to finish the head before going for a sail today.

Thanks again for the help.

Paul

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Seems pretty obvious in the diagram...

Washers go under nuts...so the bowl gasket 1234 goes onto the base 1249...then the bowl...then the RNI shoulder washer... then 1226 nut. You wouldn't put a washer under the bowl seal or between the seal and the bowl because it would break the seal...you'd have a leaking toilet.

 

[PKFK]

Almost all done - but the damm thing leaks.....

I had to take apart the 2 pieces on the output line (where the joker valve is located) in order to put the discharge hose on the fitting (hose comes up thru the floor and couldn't pull it with the fitting right over the hole.

Put the hose on, and bolted the 2 halves back together - and darn it - it leaks around the joker valve......

I suspect that it was not aligned 100% due to the hose pulling when I put it back together...(using Trident 102 hose which I have found out is not the most flexible stuff on the planet)

Will have to try adjusting I guess.

Any tips on fixing this ?

With a new Tank, Trident hoses, and Raritan conversion unit I am into this for quite a few dollars now - so I am not super happy that things are not working quite yet.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Two possible reasons why it leaks

1. The flange on the joker valve is the gasket between the pump and the discharge fitting...If you over-tighten the discharge fitting, it'll cause that flange to pucker...and leak. The cure: don't tighten it down that far.

2. You're using a straight discharge fitting where a 90 is needed...causing the hose to pull one side of the discharge fitting away from the pump, breaking the gasket's seal...so it leaks. The cure: replace the discharge fitting with a 90. Call Raritan in the morning...they'll send you one. 800-352-5630 x 6.

 

[jibes138]

Peggie will tear me to shreds but try this

I had a small drip from some side loading of the flange ( i have a Groco but same idea). I used a little 3M 4000 sealant on the flange and haven't seen a drip since. The big question is will it come apart when I need to replace it? I'll probably just get a new head.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

No I won't

I had a small drip from some side loading of the flange ( i have a Groco but same idea). I used a little 3M 4000 sealant on the flange and haven't seen a drip since. The big question is will it come apart when I need to replace it? I'll probably just get a new head.

It's your boat, your toilet and your money, not mine...so if you want to spend the money for a new toilet all you really need is a new joker valve, it's ok with me.

 

[PKFK]

I already had a 90 degree output from the Raritan conversion unit to the hose to the holding tank.

The problem was that the new upgraded hose (trident 102) was less flexible than the stuff previously used....and therefore when it fed up thru the floor hole from the bilge, it was less "bendy" than the old hose - and therefore was putting a strain on the connector to the head. This caused problems with the flange on the joker valve.

I fiddled around with it, installed a shim against the hose to take strain off, and after 3 cycles of disassembly/reassembly, managed to get the right tension, bend, and tightness on the bolts for the joker flange to get a dry seal.

What a hassle !! (working inside a phone-booth size space of course, with universal joints required on the socket wrenches just to get at the hardware).

If I couldn't get it to seal after all of this - my other options were to:

(1) cut a new hole in floor - run hose up and parallel to floor, and add a straight fitting to toilet for a non-stressed connection.

(2) install a 90 degree elbow from bilge to the head output fitting (violating the rule for a straight run with no connections from the head to the tank.

In the end - I was glad to make some adjustments to the hose and get a dry connection without the other changes.....after spending the extra $$ on the Trident hose, I was not very happy with the prospect of tossing it and buying the cheap hose again just to get the more bendable properties.

I hate plumbing jobs.....I hate them more in tiny cramped spaces that require me to work upside-down......

Paul

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

The simple solution:

An inline radius fitting. I dunno where you got the idea that there's some "rule" requiring a straight run with no connections from the head to the tank. If there were, you couldn't use a vented loop. However, there IS a "rule" that hoses should never be bent tighter than they want to bend willingly...doing that can result in what you see in the attached photo