Still having trouble getting upwind, is it possible that my rigging adjustment is wrong or does that have nothing to do with it
Upwind troubles
- Thread starter sailnewbie
- Start date
I read all of your other thread when it was more recent, but I haven't gone back for a re-read. Is it that you cannot get upwind at all (and we probably need to define upwind), or that you feel like the boat should be able to sail closer to the wind than it does?
Without being on the boat and watching you sail, diagnosis at this point may be difficult. There were good suggestions in the other thread. At this point, I would recommend someone go out with you - a friend that sails a lot, or maybe an instructor, a member of a local club, or maybe someone from this forum who is nearby. You need someone that can answer your questions in real time, help you recognize the effect of each change you make, and coach you a bit. I think it is important to go into the offseason with positive experiences you can think about over the winter, rather than being frustrated. I'm not saying you ARE frustrated, but it's no fun to remain discouraged, or even mystified.
Without being on the boat and watching you sail, diagnosis at this point may be difficult. There were good suggestions in the other thread. At this point, I would recommend someone go out with you - a friend that sails a lot, or maybe an instructor, a member of a local club, or maybe someone from this forum who is nearby. You need someone that can answer your questions in real time, help you recognize the effect of each change you make, and coach you a bit. I think it is important to go into the offseason with positive experiences you can think about over the winter, rather than being frustrated. I'm not saying you ARE frustrated, but it's no fun to remain discouraged, or even mystified.
This was the recent thread.. one of the pictures looked like the mast rake was way forward. What happened with that?
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/cant-get-up-wind.180690/
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/cant-get-up-wind.180690/
I was going to ask the same thing. The mast was leaning forward big time. Also, you may find using a Windex will help you a lot.
I can get just above 90 degrees, starboard tack maybe a little higher but that's it. Mast is about 3" towards the stern, outer cables tight inners are loose. I agree that I need lessons or another sailor, but I'm the only one who owns a sailboat within 2.5 hr radius of me, so it makes it tuff to get help.
I know you said that the keel was down but are you sure it is down all the way? I ask because I went through this same problem when I first got my c22. I cranked the keel down and thought it was down all the way. I found out it was getting stuck and wouldn't go upwind worth a darn. Maybe jump in and check your keel? Can you not tighten your loose shrouds?
Like was already mentioned by TR in that other thread, if your mast is still raked like it looks to be in your picture, the boat is never going to point upwind. Did you address this at all? I dont know how it should be set, but it looks WAY too far forward and that wants to drive the boat downwind. My .02, spend your time getting the sail plan balanced correctly first, then learn the tricks for best going upwind.
A manual that might be close is available on this site (thanks to whomever spent the time to set this up) http://macgregor.sailboatowners.com/images/kb/pdf/1361.pdf I didnt read this but it may have some info on how to set the mast rake correctly.
edit.. I looked at that link, looks like no info on correct mast rake
A manual that might be close is available on this site (thanks to whomever spent the time to set this up) http://macgregor.sailboatowners.com/images/kb/pdf/1361.pdf I didnt read this but it may have some info on how to set the mast rake correctly.
edit.. I looked at that link, looks like no info on correct mast rake
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Mast is 3" toward rear, I hung weight of the main haylard. As far the keel that could be something, I just crank it down til the cable becomes loose, I'll go for a swim when the water clears up a little, all the rain has turned the our lakes into mud puddles. As far as cables I can adjust them that's just how Po had them set but who knows what he knew
rig needs adjustment, no loose shrouds. sounds like you got rearward rake thats correct. target 5 degrees aft relative to the waterline.
Are you sailing in the Ohio river? Current could be trouble. You need momentum to carry you thru tack. You could leave your outboard in the water ticking over slowly while you learn. Help push thru some tacks till you figure it out,
You could benefit from someone experienced getting on your boat.
8 weeks ago a new sailor here had same problem with his potter.
I spent 4 hours on his boat. 3 1/2 of it was correcting the setup.
Largest problem was wrong mainsail and getting it flat enough to sail up wind.
Can you post a current picture of the mast rake? If the boat is on a trailer, make the picture broad enough to include the ground, for reference.
Being the only sailboat owner in the area I can understand, but talk to other folks who may have experience. Powerboaters sometimes have sailing experience in past lives, and you can supply the boat! If your local community college has any kind of aquatics program (swimming, lifeguard instruction, etc), that might be a lead. Check with local scuba shops. Any connection to water sports could lead you to a sailor. Check online for relatively nearby Power Squadron or USCG Auxiliary chapters. Just some ideas.
And one more: Pilots are often sailors, check with your local small airport (find the fixed base operator, or FBO), just ask around. This might have an even higher likelihood of success if there are glider pilots around.
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I think I may see an issue here. If you don't know that the keel is all the way down it probably isn't. (No need to go swimming.) Take a look at the picture below. Notice the lock bolt hole. In order to lower the keel all the way you must remove the lock bolt first. Then lower the keel to align the hole in the keel with the hole in the trunk and replace the bolt. If you don't remove the lock bolt the keel will rest against it and never get all the way down.
Another issue ive found recently, i know that pic above looks like the mast is forward but its an illusion due to shot angle, just raised it again and hung a weight off my halyard and i had about 12" at mast base, lean aft. So i loosened everything and set up according to manual, the sail sets so much different now. Tomorrow will tell the tale and headed to a wider lake which will help with a more constant wind
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In post #5 above, you mentioned that you had about 3" of aft mast rake. Now it seems you have 12". For this to be true, either your rigging is extremely loose, or there is an error in your measurement system. You are taking this measurement with the boat in the water, right? If not, any slope to the ground that the trailer is parked on, along with any slope attributable to the positioning of the boat on the trailer, will mean your measurement is not accurate. Get this measured accurately, while in the water, and make the adjustments called for by others in the posts above, before you make any other changes. I don't sail your boat, but mast rake is important for upwind work.
Have you verified that the centerboard is completely down, based on the diagram in post #12?
When i mentioned the 3" that was inaccurate, i didnt have the boat totally leveled, i remembered that i leveled my rail stove on the water so i used it as my new out of water level tool and based my adjustments from that, it should be really close, as far as keel not yet were headed out tomorrow, ill check then
That forestay looks tight in the pic. How did you get enough rake without having to replace the wire? Was there enough adjustment left in the turnbuckle?
I'm sure I mentioned this in your other thread, but... you are not going any where with your headsail sheeted like the picture. The sheet is the line attached to the rear corner (clew) that you use to control the sail. Nothing said in this thread indicates you've addressed this problem... if you have.... sorry. Anyway... the jib sheet lead should be farther outboard and farther aft. If you bisect the corner angle of the clew with a line... where that line intersects the deck will be the neutral fore and aft position. And please, get a proper lead block instead of sticking that frazzled line through the eyestrap on the cabin top. There should be another eyestrap farther back to attach a small block to make a proper lead. Eyestraps are not intended for this type of work... they are primarily used to attach hardware to the boat.
There is pulleys on port and starboard sides aboat mid ways of cabin that i thought of trying before but the sheets wouldnt fit thru the pulleys but now i have changed the sheets to 5/16" line and they are usable so ill try out those tomorrow there right behind side stays
Attachments
If not the mid way pulleys should i go to rear cabin area theres fairleads there also, if you zoom in to top,bottom and rear you'll be able to see all i have available, ideals welcome!
