update from costalegre, mexico....

Merlin Clark · Nov 16, 2013

Looks like a great place Zee!
From my experience with 4-107 and 4-108, the number is stamped into the block below where your reservoir is mounted. Of course in a place that's hard to get to but a mirror and flashlight will help. Maybe just stick a digital camera down the and snap away.
It's around the pointy end of the yellow arrow. If you need a owners manual, shop manual or parts book you can find them here (4-108 and 107 are same books): http://www.endeavourowners.com/dscsn/info/manuals.html

justsomeguy · Nov 16, 2013

That's one trippy engine, zeehag! Love it! Hope it breaks free.

And I'm learning more about the joys of Mexico, myself.

woodster · Nov 16, 2013

AHHHH !!!....... another day in paradise ...and so colorful toooooo.......

regards

woody

John Nantz · Nov 16, 2013

Green Thing on right side => heat exchanger?

Is the "green thing" on the right side (as one is facing the picture), with the orange cap the heat exchanger? If so, it looks like there is a stub of a tube coming out the side just under the cap.

You write that this is a work-in-progress, but if it is, then should there be a hose to a container for antifreeze?

Otherwise, I have to say that this is the most colorful inboard engine I have ever seen.

One way an engine could get salt water in the cylinders is by sucking it in through the water lift muffler. One way this can happen is by cranking the engine too long without it starting. Has the oil been changed yet? If so, was there any signs of water in the oil?

John Nantz · Nov 17, 2013

Stopping Runaway Engine

This is probably a good place to mention how one can stop a runaway engine.

Several years ago there was a couple that came into Ganges, BC, and their engine wound up going into a runaway condition. Besides the noise, there was black smoke billowing out and they were in a panic. This was my first experience with a runaway and afterward I found out what causes it and how to deal with one.

There are at least four reasons that a runaway can occur and I can't think of all of them at the moment, but one of them is some kind of blockage on the fuel return line, say, pinched or kinked hose, sludge buildup in the fuel return hose, being one of the reasons. If the fuel tank is in a lazarette you don't want to put anything on that little black hose.

I *think* another reason could be a hole in the fuel pump diaphragm where fuel leaks into the oil pan.

Basically, its anything that puts more pressure on the fuel flow to the injectors than what is needed.

Anyway, the important thing to know is how to stop a runaway, and quickly. Obviously cutting off the fuel supply is a given. The fuel line will have a valve on the fuel tank but since there is a lot of fuel in the line between it and the injector it will take quite a long time to burn it all up.

Doing anything to break the suction between the fuel tank and the injector, f.e., loosening an injector line fitting, will also work but this requires getting a wrench on the noisy engine that wants to blow itself apart. The closer to the injectors the better.

Another really quick way is to cut off the air supply. Put the sole of a shoe over the air intake and this will stop it quickly. A shoe or good flip-flop should be readily available so this would be fast.

A runaway engine is really scary! Especially if it's your own!!!

Chris Patterson · Nov 17, 2013

We had one run away two weeks ago here on the hill. Poor little Yannie didn't have 25 hours on it, and off it went. I was below in another one and heard it, and by the time I extricated myself, my compadre was already on it. Folks I gotta be honest. When Rick went below, there was black smoke POURING out the companionway, and that poor engine sounded like it was turning 5 grand.
And I doubt I would have went for it, it was intense. I probably would have let it go..

Some years ago a Cat 3406 ran away with us. There were two of us on this engine, so when that big boy took off it would be difficult to describe. In our obvious haste, my buddy ripped his flannel shirt off, and stuffed it into the open breather, no filter. It ate it. I don't think that Cat even eased up when it passed that flannel shirt past 'er valves. Yeah, we busted the lines and it was all over, but there again you have two very experienced diesel mechanics, and when this occurs, it can be a terrifying experience.
Every since that Cat incidence though, I now always carry an injector nut wrench at my immediate disposal, and hope I have the presence of mind to use it.

I've never been a huge fan of British mechanicals, but the Perk is a damn fine little engine. And the Lucas pumps are not that difficult either. I utterly despise the o-rings they use on their fuel lines, but all things considered they seem to work, go figure.
(If any of you fuelers out there are trying to come up with these o-rings, don't bother. Make it yourself out of 1/4" Push-Loc hose, I've made handfulls of 'em..

Oh yeah, the last locked up Perkins. This boat powered itself to the hill. We hauled it and it sat on the dirt pile for a year. Next year, kerchunk. Breaker bar wouldn't turn it. Pull the covers and let me look at it. At a glance, I say pull it. Chances are the head gasket DID cause the demise of this engine, but salty water in motor blocks are a poor combination.
I won't mention the price.
Or my bill.

DAVA390 · Nov 17, 2013

I`m in construction, this year the company has had 2 Hitachi excavator motors fail. The problem was apparently some sort of fuel or fuel return line inside the valve covers that leaked, the fuel thinned out the oil and motors failed. 1 machine 12 months old, other about 22 months. Office is in discussions now with dealer about warranty coverage for older machine.

John Nantz · Nov 18, 2013

Inertia and shoe tread

Chris - your story with the black smoke pretty well describes the boat I saw. They had lots of smoke coming out of the companion way too!

Chris Patterson said:
Some years ago a Cat 3406 ran away with us. There were two of us on this engine, so when that big boy took off it would be difficult to describe. In our obvious haste, my buddy ripped his flannel shirt off, and stuffed it into the open breather, no filter. It ate it. I don't think that Cat even eased up when it passed that flannel shirt past 'er valves. Yeah, we busted the lines and it was all over, but there again you have two very experienced diesel mechanics, and when this occurs, it can be a terrifying experience.
Every since that Cat incidence though, I now always carry an injector nut wrench at my immediate disposal, and hope I have the presence of mind to use it.

It would be interesting to have a picture of your buddy when he saw his shirt getting sucked into the air intake!

That is a good idea about having a wrench that will fit the injector nuts handy just for that eventuality.

What people should be consider is the inertia of all that spinning iron - the flywheel, crankshaft, and pistons. If one puts something over the air intake all that stuff isn't going to stop instantly. A Cat 3406 is a much larger engine than most of ours so an injector wrench is an excellent way to go. Probably the only way.

On the smaller engines, like mine is a 3-cylinder 24 hp, a shoe with some tread on it should work fine. The tread would allow a small amount of air to still get through. Also, the air intake could be covered more gradually instead of trying to do it all in one shot. A little bit of common sense and understanding how things work is helpful.

Oh, an idea!

If one had to go looking for a wrench then ask the wife pinch the fuel hose until you find it!

Chris Patterson · Nov 18, 2013

Haaha. Yeah John, that was a pretty extreme example that like you said few sailors would encounter. I would have liked to see his face too, but I promise you that the situation was tense, and I was headed to that 11/16" wrench..

If anybody 'poo-poo's' this whole thing, when you go after one, and it's turning two, three times greater than its red-line, ya better have yer big boy britches on. Knowing like John was saying, there's nothing more than the grace of God keeping that thing from coming unglued in your face. To build your nerve up, practice. Have the wife sit in the auto, hold the gas pedal slam on the floor, lean over right on top of the engine and imagine it turning twice that speed, while simultaneously black smoke POURING in your face. Oh yeah, earplugs, safety glasses, gloves, fergit that, there wasn't time. Yeah, good times..

Here's a situation that I've not dealt with. I don't have any reference, so this may or may not be so. But it sounds doable, and reasonable. But the Diesel China Syndrome. WHILE this mill is spinning many more RPM's than designed, the tolerances are changing. Heating up quick. The crankcase oil starts bleeding past the pistons and rings because of this wild running, and then starts to consume its own engine oil. At that point theoretically, the only thing that will stop it is total emmersion that would be near impossible. Or catastrophic explosion.
Wow, ain't diesels fun?

Really now, your chances are probably better getting struck by lightning while peeing off the aft deck, but if it ever does, you heard it here..

Ron20324 · Nov 18, 2013

A diesel seminar instructor said the best thing to do when you get a runaway, is, GET AWAY. As noted, if it blows, you shouldn't be near it. On the other hand, he said it is a good idea to put a tennis ball on a string near the air intake- same theory as those wooden plug for hoses- so it is always handy to block the air intake pipe.

John Nantz · Nov 18, 2013

Burning oil from the oil pan

Chris - I've heard that before:

Chris Patterson said:
Here's a situation that I've not dealt with. I don't have any reference, so this may or may not be so. But it sounds doable, and reasonable. But the Diesel China Syndrome. WHILE this mill is spinning many more RPM's than designed, the tolerances are changing. Heating up quick. The crankcase oil starts bleeding past the pistons and rings because of this wild running, and then starts to consume its own engine oil. At that point theoretically, the only thing that will stop it is total emmersion that would be near impossible. Or catastrophic explosion.
Wow, ain't diesels fun?.

I'm pretty sure that is one kind of failure mode. If that happens I can't see how there is any way to stop it.

Question: On the Yanmar, if the mechanical fuel pump on the side of the 1, 2, 3GM engines developed a pinhole leak, wouldn't it leak into the oil pan? I don't have my Shop Manual where I can get to it but it seems to me that it would.

….. IF it would, then it would think the engine oil and make it easier for blow by past the rings, and then, AND THEN, ….

Zeehag - as for painting the injector wrench green, with the other green parts on the engine wouldn't you want something a different color? Actually, since there would likely be a lot of black smoke in the cabin, maybe something really different, I'm thinking like maybe a "glow-in-the-dark" color?

Tennis ball: Actually, wouldn't that depend on the design of the air cleaner? The Yanmar has a round "entrance" so that could possibly work, at least for one of the smaller engines. I still think that one wouldn't want to try and stop any engine suddenly, especially if it was spinning past redline. There is just too much inertia in all that moving iron.

The "dedicated wrench at the ready" sounds like the best idea though.

rufus1138 · Nov 18, 2013

good to hear things are starting to come around for you zeehag. with the time that the motor sat without being turned over you could have simply developed condensation in the cylinders and froze up from that, if the engine is ever in that situation again do your best to spin it once a month or more to make sure things stay lubed up. i hope things get fixed before the seasons change and your rates go up.

kloudie1 · Nov 18, 2013

Closing off the air is the best way to shut down a run-away. A custom whittled wood plug for your air cleaner or intake opening is fine.. On engines with a crankcase vent to the intake manifold, the crank vent hose might have to be pinched to final kill, but the intake block will keep it from ..uuhhhh rapid disassembly.. Lots of big commercial diesels have an intake air kill valve.. one could be rigged pretty easily on most engines.. or a wafer type butterfly valve installed between the intake manifold and the air cleaner.
They need a LOT of air to run and if there is enough blow by to be passing a lot of oil, it can't be passing enough air to run.

rufus1138 · Nov 18, 2013

+1 for an intake air shutoff valve, needs to be positive activation with a safety latch so that nothing bumps it to an engaged position accidentally, over build it tho because you can easily underestimate the power in that little thing, my dad watched an 8v71 detroit run away and(i know much much bigger but still) eat a whole sheet of 1 inch plywood without reacting at all. use steel plate valve make it way too thick and put it where it can be mounted without fear of causing a failure between it and the head.

update from costalegre, mexico....

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