Unsafe At Any Speed - No, Not the Corvair

[BlowMeAway]

As I am sipping a glass of fine wine, while checking tomorrows weather on my iPad, in the cockpit I glance over to catch the last few nits of daylight, on what is close to the longest day of the year, yet something was odd..

MS you have bigger nads than the majority of us. You risked your life, as well as several other volunteers, to save such a derelict ship with the maintenance issues you've outlined. I understand you're sincerity about safety, and the need for constant vigilance with regards to maintenance, as well as your frustration regarding careless owners. How then are you able to find a woman that knows you'll be OK, while she's handing you tools into the dinghy as you make another valiant attempt at repairing this vessel. Is there something we missed with your safety rantings? How about safety for yourself?It seems like the bottom line is that the ship was delineated for scuttling. Dude, you're too important to this forum for us to have to discover MS went down with the ship, especially if it wasn't his.

In my mind the finish of a bottle of fine wine in the cockpit of my boat would have been more rewarding, while watching the failure of others, especially the way the owner was defined in this post.

Honestly, your a hero in my mind...but you probably should consider your options as a plaintiff before the insurance companies make you a defendant.

Fortunately, most of us here know you can't help yourself, you're in love with sailboats. My sincerest commendations Skipper. Stay safe...we'll follow your lead and thanks for sharing this story.

Heroics are meant for saving people, F... the boats!

 

[shemandr]

I sorta have to echo that.
MS it was your relaxation time. It's a shame you spent it rescuing an unworthy boat owner from his/her own neglect. I buy the lobster pot scenario. But Geez, shouldn't you have a day off.

 

[jon hansen]

I question the wisdom of going below to save a flooding derelict. Nobody was in peril...except the rescuers.

- 1

 

[BlowMeAway]

- 1

Really Jon? That's your comment? I think it's totally spot on what @gettinthere suggests.

 

[jon hansen]

correct. i do not question MS's judgement. i applaud his judgement and say well done sir. to those who say they would do nothing and therefore watch the vessel sink, i disagree with your judgement.

possibly it's you do not have his skill. possibly some are too out of shape.

i figured MS shared this story so some newbees might learn about vessel maitainence, seamanship, and the tradition of sailors looking out for each other.

MAINSAIL, i applaud you, jon

 

[Dennis Kitchen]

If it weren't so apparent that the derelict owner was trying to get rid of his derelict boat I'd be tempted to hit him with a salvage claim to thank him for his insolent attitude.
Dennis

 

[kampuniform]

correct. i do not question MS's judgement. i applaud his judgement and say well done sir. to those who say they would do nothing and therefore watch the vessel sink, i disagree with your judgement.

possibly it's you do not have his skill. possibly some are too out of shape.

i figured MS shared this story so some newbees might learn about vessel maitainence, seamanship, and the tradition of sailors looking out for each other.

MAINSAIL, i applaud you, jon

Courage is often due to a lack of foresight, while cowardice is often based on good information.
Do try refrain from being the moral hall monitor, as the opinions expressed here are equally valid in this situation.
Yes, the OP performed a remarkable feat, however;unless someone's life was at stake, the scenario was made far more precarious by having several people wade into the scene to prevent the sinking.
It is clear from the context that the owner of this vessel was keen to have her sink beneath the waves, hopefully without a whisper.
Oh, and by the way, I can lift 100 lb dumbbells in a standing press, run marathons, and I'd never entertain the thought of entering a rapidly sinking vessel if no lives were at risk. I've seen the consequences of lack of foresight many times over. It's never pleasant.

 

[jon hansen]

"opinions expressed here are equally valid in this situation" is so very true!
all your other ASSUMPTIONS, i really don't care

jon

 

[Rick D]

Salvage claim? Hmmm....interesting thought. Probably not worth it. Could wind up owning that mess

 

[Gunni]

Come on guys, you answer the call when you see a boat going down. That's the deal. The full situation is only available in hindsight.

 

[JRT]

My question to MS was for my own education to be honest. Far be it that I would question MS actions in this event, I as a new sailer have struggled with judging several new experiences. I guess I would have jumped to help also but would not know when it was too much.

 

[Mark Maulden]

Well, looking at Maine's pix, this happened in a mooring field which I'm guessing is not that deep. If I were to "lose" an insured boat, I would do it in very deep water where no forensics would go...

 

[uncledom]

I would have jumped on 16 and called the coasties, that would get the owner's attention. There's nothing like being wrapped up in a federal blanket of investigation. You would have been able to continue that lovely glass of wine.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

As a former dealer along with some other dealers and marinas, we responded to sinking boats. No one has any idea what is going on and in either an anchorage or marina, my concern would be for life and then concern for the boat and others as well. Once at 2 am I received a call advising a power boat had hit a sailboat in a marina with the sailboat taking on water. As it turned out the operator of the power boat was approaching at slow speed heading to a dock due to chest pain. He had a heart attack and slumped over. Well that boat rammed a sailboat on the broad side and was taking on water. The operator survived. The sailboat did not sink and insurance took care of everything.

When something is happening, action to see if no one is hurt in my books is a must and then second saving a boat paticurlay in a water way, marina or anchorage to prevent other damage and channel if any being blocked should be considered. In my past, I have come up to accidents on the highway and quick action saved lives thank God while others stood around and looked without helping. You should have seen me telling those clowns to either help or move on.
Most of us would probably have done what Mainsail did but if others do not want to help that is their choice. As to Mainsail's description, if only one person learns from this, then it was well worth posting. However we can agree to disagree but please leave the negative comments out. This is a forum to help others as well as us to learn and trust me there are many that appreciate Mainsail's posts and time that he helps others just like Peggy Hall and myself.
Crazy dave Condom (oops misspelled and should be Condon)

 

[DougM]

I know that in a situation as Maine described it, knowing that people were safe, I would have tried to prevent the sinking.
My question is, how could the boat have gotten into such a sorry state in the first place, unless the owner had no insurance. I ask because my insurer required a survey at age 10, and requires a followup every five years thereafter.
Being a skeptic, I tend to agree with Ron that there was a deliberate attempt to scuttle the boat given the indication of loose clamps on the stuffing box and the absence of functional bilge pumps. Never mind the other evidence of poor ( or lack of) maintenance.

 

[smokey73]

I agree with Crazy Dave and although I try to keep my boat in top shape I learned something.

1. I did some work in my port lazarette a few weeks ago and dropped the manual bilge pump handle (which is tethered to the pump for fast access) down into the area below the lazarette (still tethered). It was somewhat wedged and I couldn't easily get it out an it is still there. When I get to the boat today it will be retrieved and back in its spot post haste.
2. When was the last time I tested the manual bilge pump? I'm not sure, maybe a couple years ago and then the suction point had been pulled up and I wouldn't have been able to pump down very far. To test it I need to disable the auto bilge pump and put water in the bilge so I don't often do that but will add that to my annual spring checklist.
3. How about more than a few pumps? Will the diaphram hold up? In Maine's description remember that one of the manual bilge pumps started to work but then failed. Will mine hold up very long. Maybe I need to buy a rebuild kit - its a 1994 boat and has probably never been rebuilt.
4. I have a Packless Shaft Seal - I inspect the rubber bellows, clamps and hose every year. Next year at haul out they get replaced, period. I shut off all thu-hull valves religiously when I leave the boat but there is nothing I can do about the PSS other than maintenance. Does anyone know of a way to curb the flow if the bellows fail? Let me know if you do.
5. Do you know where your emergency damage control wooden plugs are. I thought I did but someone managed to re-arrange them and it took me way to long to find them. How about the mallet to drive them in? Its not in an easy place to get to. It will be.

The list goes on and on. I teach a course in the nuclear power industry and the best examples in the course come from real life things that have happened and you can't make up some of the stuff that has happened. The thing that ultimately saved the boat was getting the leak under control and someone showing up with a de-watering pump. Your presence may have not only saved the boat (not that there was much to save) but more importantly, your presence may have saved or at least mitigated the possibility that one of the others rendering aid would have been injured or killed in their efforts. I am sure you would have known when to give up on the effort and clear the boat because it was going down - others may not have and could have been trapped below in their efforts to save it.

Thanks again for the object lesson. I for one appreciate it.

 

[uncledom]

Perhaps I'm being too cynical but at some point the CG should have been involved. That would have documented the complete lack of maintenance and the lack of a good Samaritan to even be effect without great effort.

 

[Maine Sail]

Perhaps I'm being too cynical but at some point the CG should have been involved. That would have documented the complete lack of maintenance and the lack of a good Samaritan to even be effect without great effort.

If we had waited for the USCG to get there, the boat would have been on the bottom and there would have been a diesel sheen over the entire harbor. Some of us prefer to sit back and rubber-neck the train wreck others prefer to help out. I guess I am in the latter group, as were about ten others on Saturday night.

Call the USCG? That's a a great idea but it really means just let her sink.... I purposely DID NOT hail on 16 because we did not have the time to deal with 15 minutes of inane questions rather than a rapid response.

What is your position?
How many people on board?
What is the nature of the distress?
Do you have an anchor?
What color is your dog?
Is everyone wearing a life jacket?
How old is your mothers, mother?
Do you have working bilge pumps?
Do you have a cell phone?
etc. etc..

Sorry, I did not have time for that BS so CH 9 worked almost instantly and bilge pump handles were on the way in seconds, as was help from multiple other boats in the anchorage........

Here in Maine Sea Tow or Tow Boat US get to the scene about 200% faster than the USCG does, and this time Tow Boat US did not show up until we had the water to cabin sole level. If we had sat back, called Tow Boat US, and rubber-necked the vent the boat would have sunk and we'd all be smelling diesel sheen all night. I will choose to prevent a fuel spill/Superfund Site/hazard to navigation any time I can.

The last event I witnessed a USCG FAIL on was a BOAT FIRE and it took the USCG 2 1/2 hours to get on-scene only to find floating & drifting rubble when they got there. Occupants were rescued by good Samaritans despite the USCG being notified/hailed immediately. Heck Sea Tow came from nearly twice the distance and was on scene in 40 minutes. It took the USCG 2 1/2 hours to get on scene.

Up here in the boonies calling the USCG for an incident like this is about as useless as boobs on a bull.

For those suggesting this was intentional, I disagree 150%. The guy is just a clueless Mr. Magoo wandering around aimlessly and usually getting lucky... This time Mr. Magoo's luck just failed.

Last night, at racing, I actually spoke to the crew member that backed over the lobster pot, and a mooring BTW. He had ZERO CLUE the vessel had no operable bilge pumps. He went so far as to tell me they had "just been replaced over the winter".... He also had ZERO clue the boat was taking on water when he left.

I asked him point-blank how or why he would ever race on a boat like that and he just shrugged because he had no clue she was in such disrepair. I suspect Mr. Magoo would shrug the same way.

I also received a photo of the pot wrap, on the boats Max Prop, with the boat now on the hard. it was sent to me from "Ricky" who happened to be at that yard yesterday. It looks like as Osprey built a nest on the prop..... D'oh...

Some people are just patently UNSAFE, CLUELESS and a MENACE to themselves and others and they don't even know it...I firmly believe this is the case here as there is a lot more to the story I can't & won't divulge that I base this conclusion on.

I am doing everything in my power to see to it that guys like this can't impact our club, in a liability manner, when folks are injured or die as a result of poor seamanship.

P.S. How many of you that have now read this have checked your manual & automatic bilge pumps?

How about your strum screens...?

Inspected the shaft log and packing gland hose clamps?

How about seacock hoses and clamps?

 

[DayDreamer41]

Great come back MS, the environmental impact of fuel, antifreeze and stupidity in the harbor would have indeed leave a scar.....

 

[Maine Sail]

Great come back MS, the environmental impact of fuel, antifreeze and stupidity in the harbor would have indeed leave a scar.....

Oh don't even get me going on the stupidity of the new portable above deck fuel tank vapor regulations CAUSING the dumping/spilling fuel into harbors all over the country. My fingers are raw from writing my State & Federal Senators and Representatives about this federally mandated MESS....... These red plastic 3 gallon, 6 gallon etc. portable fuel tanks simply blow up like a balloon when hot and then piss fuel out of every orifice once under pressure. The leaked fuel then "self bails" right out into the bay. How on Earth is actual liquid fuel ( sometimes two stroke oil) leaking into the bay better than a bit of fuel vapor breathing into the atmosphere...? Yet another great fix by our inept, non-engineer minded, elected officials.. What a freaking debacle! Rant off...