Unnecessary risk taking?

[Tom S]

I agree with lots of the sentiments

Like Badger said "Why do people get so concerned when these things happen? It's none of their business. "The only people that should care if I wear a PFD or not is my family.I typically don't wear a PFD, but if I am sailing solo (which is often) I will wear it when it starts getting rough.But what I have started doing more and more when I single hand is carry a small waterproof VHF when I solo. Even on calmer days because those are the times when you let your guard down and one little stupid mistep and "splash" I might be in the water. I figure if I do something stupid there is enough boat traffic on LI Sound most days that someone could hear and pluck my sorry behind out of the water .I guess thats my answer to #6I wonder if Merril was consious when he went in the water (assumption) and that if he would have been carrying a small VHF , whether that might have someone rescued him

 

[Sean]

PFD / Helmet / Mullet

I hear what everyone's saying here, but being I have a motorcycle and a sailboat, I don't understand why everyone is up in arms as soon as people start talking about safety...no one's forcing people into anything, just suggestions..I bet as soon as Ben Rothlisberger started flying over his handle bars he realized, "damn mom was right....where's that darn helmet now!"I also white water kayak, just below Great Falls in the Potomac and as we see kayakers come up to play and they don't have a PFD or Helmet, we would chuckle a little and call him/her a newbie. Because one day, they'll realize that the safety isn't to make the sport boring, it's to make it last longer. Forget all the insurance issues and costs to your fellow citizens, just think about your family...I bet Ben's family is right now going out of their minds while he's on morphine not knowing what happened after seven hours of surgery.Just my two-cents (I normally don't talk about this stuff) but since I was out there on Saturday when this all happened to Merrill(what ever happened to Merrill), it really woke me up to this stuff. (I wasn't wearing my inflatable/harness PFD either - but I will be wearing it next time). I think someone called it “Sobering” I think that’s a good word for this type of thing.Fair winds,-Sean

 

[chuckr]

calculated risk taking

Before taking up sailing i use to climb rock and big mountains and teach climbing and skiing. In addition, i did a lot of training and work in backcounty search and rescue - when i started the first thing i learned was life is a series of calculated risks. the object is to keep the risks at a level you can deal with and understand the consequences of those risks if something goes wrong. I refused to climb with people that i thought were unsafe while others did climb with them - on the other hand i know of climbers that died because they thought they could do something and "get away with it". When i sail, if there are two of us we usually don't wear our pfds regardless of the weather -however, we just returned from an overnight sail from key west and as i napped she wore her pfd and was clipped in - when i took the helm and she slept i wore my pfd and was clipped in - those are the rules on our boat - if you want to comply you can sail with us - if you want to take more risks than we think you should sail with someone else as we are not interested in being sued by your family. i take calculated risks and know my limitations and do my planning around them chuck and soulmates

 

[Cap'n Ron]

Hypothermia - Drowning

Many good responses here and thanking naughty-duck for a great dialogue.I remember a few years ago, while getting stuck for weather in Tillamuck Oregon (Garabaldi), having some beers, playing Keno with some Coasties stationed there.Wearing a PFD will, like Cap'n Bill points out, make it easier to find your body due to the international 'orange' but it will not save your life. A survival suit, a wet-suit would but a short-tethered-harness is the absolute best.Seldom is this "worst case scenerio" seen happening, falling overboard unconcious, hit in the head by a meteorite or the boom. If a case of a meterorite he might survive, but if the boom, he can kiss it good bye...grin.I never have had a MOB but if under power with an auto-pilot and it does happen, well then, you might as well hope for a lightening strike, cause that is more likely to happen than finding your crewman, but you of coulrse do everything you can. This is the point. You DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN, 'BEFORE' it happens, like wearing a harness.I have done MOB drills, it is pretty tough to keep them (dummy) in sight in broad daylight when you are prepared and trained, (by the way, rafting an inflatable alongside is a very good method of recovery in heavy weather).I use to ride a BSA across the U.S. without a helmut too, and the headlamp off. Never would do that these days...;-)

 

[tom]

Chuker got it right

He decides when to wear a PFD or a helmet or when too use two lines to rappel not the government. I usually don't wear a PFD but if it is rough or the water is cold I put one on. But if the idiots in Washington have their way we would have to always wear a PFD... Drifting in 90+ degree temperatures in a 6 acre pond that is 3' deep. Going through class 4 whitewater only an idiot would not wear a PFD.  As to helmets it is crazy to routinely ride motorcycles or paddle whitewater without a helmet. I have had big gashes in my paddling helmet where I struck rocks while "perfecting" my eskimo roll. Freedom means that we are free to choose. Most people act responsibly most of the time. The rest of us shouldn't have to give up our right to choose because of the few and even the few have the right to act irresponsible. When you think of it there is no rational reason for someone to slide down a snow covered hill on boards. But people do it all of the time and seem to take great joy in risking their life and limbs for no good reason. Sailing without a PFD is sooo much safer than skiing.

 

[Benny]

The Capital Gazzette- Article.

This is the Article which appeared on "The Capital" the newspaper which Mr. Marrill owned. The fact that there was blood in the cockpit is being publicly acknowledged after it had been reported earlier by the people who found the boat.   Philip Merrill.  Philip Merrill, owner of The Capital, missing while sailing on the bayBy ERIC HARTLEY and RYAN BAGWELL, Staff WritersRescue crews continued searching the Chesapeake Bay Sunday afternoon for Capital-Gazette Publisher and former diplomat Philip Merrill after his 41-foot sailboat was found drifting off Breezy Point in Calvert County yesterday.The Coast Guard and Maryland Natural Resources Police were using boats, helicopters and an airplane to comb a 100-square-mile area of the bay."Right now we plan to search into the evening and then re-evaluate," Coast Guard Lt. Timothy Balunis said about 4:30 p.m.He said the Coast Guard estimates survival time, given Mr. Merrill's age and the temperature of the water, to be about 28 hours. It wasn't clear what time Mr. Merrill might have fallen overboard.Mr. Merrill, 72, an experienced yachtsman, went sailing alone about 2:15 p.m. Saturday, said Tom Marquardt, executive editor of The Capital, one of seven publications Mr. Merrill owns.Mr. Merrill "has been an avid yachtsman since he first learned to sail at age 7. He has been actively cruising the Chesapeake since 1958," his wife, Eleanor, and children said in a statement issued by Mr. Marquardt. They said it was not unusual for Mr. Merrill, wholives in Arnold, to go sailing alone."If there was anyone who could captain a boat competently alone, it was Phil. ... He just couldn't resist a sunny day with the wind at his back."Police said the wind blew at 15 to 20 mph Saturday on the bay, with gusts up to 25 mph."I would call it a condition that probably would not be good for a single sailor to be out on a boat that size," said Col. Mark Chaney, superintendent of Natural Resources Police.Mr. Merrill generally did not wear a life jacket while sailing, Col. Chaney said. At least four life jackets were on board the boat, which wasn't damaged.Two men on jet-skis found Mr. Merrill's blue-and-white sailboat, the Merrilly, in shallow water near Breezy Point, about 25 miles south of Annapolis, officials said. The sails were up and the engine was off.The men boarded the boat and found Mr. Merrill's wallet, but no one was on board. One witness told TV crews that he found blood "in the back" of the sailboat. He said it was a small amount of blood, but dit not elaborate.The men called 911 and moved the boat to deeper waters.Calvert County officials called Natural Resources Police about 7:15 p.m. and the agency sent four boats

 

[fastscot]

Its my freedom - who cares what happens!

I agree that we should not be forced to wear PFD's. It should be our choice to drown because of a little trip on a piece of deck hardware or fall over the side because of an unexpected gust of the wind we all pray for. Who do these people think they are trying to keep us from drowning if we want to? Its our funeral. When we are gone, its our families that have to arrange everything - its no sweat off our brows. Besides we take chances all the time - driving to work (hopefully not wearing those damn seatbelts - all they do is get in your way and make you uncomfortable. Besides, people get killed wearing seatbelts - just have a closed casket so no one has to look at what is left of you. Hey, its all about freedom and doing what you want to do. Why worry about anyone else and how they feel. That guy Merrill probably did something stupid, not like us - he only been sailing for 60 or so years and with guys like Gary Jobson. He didn't know as much as we do. Nothing like that could happen to us - and if it does - because we didn't want to be uncomfortable and no one can tell us what to do - it won't be our problem - WE WON'T BE HERE. PS: I wear my auto/manual inflatable EVERY time I sail.

 

[Rick Webb]

If We Require PFDs Because of the Potential Cost..

to other citizens we better start shooting those who eat wrong and dont exercise, those who drink and those who smoke. If your a fat drunk who smokes there should probably be a bounty for your hide. Now excuse me as my brat is getting cold my beer warm and my cigar is going out.

 

[Bill Roosa]

Ross

I always wear my helmet and PFD. As the "dad" of 3 boys I feel I should be setting the example. Since they are required to wear PFD then I as the leader should also.You lead by example even when you don't think your are.When I think of all the stuff I HAD to wear in the Army, (100 lb of lightweight stuff in 90+ degrees temp) a PFD is no sweat.

 

[Badger N.H.]

No one wants to ban PFDs.

Some of you make it sound like you are afraid of losing your right to wear one.And I don't think anyone here thinks that wearing a PFD is wrong.What's wrong would be a law that would threaten us with fines and/or jail if we refuse.If anyone thinks it is a good rule to wear one, then that is a good rule, FOR YOURSELF and your family. Just don't pretend that it is immoral, wrong or irresponcible in any way for me to NOT wear one.

 

[tom]

Freedom is a Horrible Thing

If you give a person freedom they might do something wrong.... God knows that a 50 year old man who has only been boating for 30 years is incapable of deciding when to wear his PFD!!! But please explain this to me. Most people who drown are swimming....so why not require swimmers to wear a Pfd whenever they are near water???? Most people who drown are children...why not a law requiring children to wear a PFD whenever they are within 100 yards of water???? The main reason is that people would scream if required to wear a PFD whenever they went swimming. Maybe require a license to swim...a test on hypothermia etc and demonstrate the abiltiy to swim 100 yards and tread water for two hours. Then you get a tatoo that allows you to swim....

 

[Badger N.H.]

Yes, swimming is a good example.

I can legally swim accross the Piscataqua river here where I live but I'm required to have a PFD on board to row across in my unsinkable dinghy or kayak.If people are allowed to ride motorcycles without a seatbelt, why are seatbelts required in cars in some states? You would think that motorcycles would be banned due to the obvious higher risk.It's the lawmakers who are idiots along with all those idiot boaters who believe we should all wear our PFDs. Many of them are out there right now screaming for more laws for all kinds of stupid reasons. Saving lives being at the top of the list.I just want to go sailing. The problem is that there are safety nut activists out there who want to stop me. They must be stopped. I wouldn't make a good activist. But I guess that's what we need.If there were an anti-safety activist group I would join right away as a supporting member.

 

[Rich]

The equipment needs improvement

I'm not much interested in the debate about the extent to which people should be required to make use of safety equipment--mature people evaluate the risk and equipment on its merits and don't get sidetracked on all the politico-social fantasy--but I am concerned when important safety equipment isn't used because it isn't designed well enough. Fortunately, we're now at a point where organizations like BoatUS are working on new design ideas for pdf's and the Coast Guard is taking a more flexible approach to what forms can be certified, so the day is coming when few of us will have a good reason not to wear one. I wear a West Marine inflatable waist pack pdf whenever I'm in the cockpit--it weighs almost nothing, and worn at the front isn't any more obtrusive than a small day pack. My guests have been relieved when they find they can wear one of these instead of a standard over-the-head pdf, and don't mind using it.Still, most drownings of boaters are happening to people in hunting/fishing settings, so somebody needs to make it their business to design hunting/fishing gear with built-in flotation that sportsmen will buy. Comfortable equipment will be used by anyone trained enough to recognize the risks of their particular water sport...

 

[NautiDuck]

Natural selection

I'm a conservative Republican so I don't support a lot of government regulations. For me it is an issue of natural selection. The people who don't wear helmets, seatbelts and PFDs are much more likely to soon be out of the gene pool. That is good for society as a whole. ;-)

 

[Bill Roosa]

Swiming is not the most common way

to drown. 50% of drowning victims are fully clothed males not wearing PFDs who where operating boats of various sizes and 75% of these victims where found with their fly down.So a really good way to improve your odds beyond wearing your PFD is to not pee off the boat into the water. But then guys will be guys!You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Badger N.H.]

No one should ever have to pee over the side.

Way back when I got my first boat, it didn't take me long to to see the danger in pissing over the side of a boat.I soon found it much easier to pee into a container and then dump the stuff overboard. I eventually bought a plastic pitcher specifically for this purpose and called it the piss pitcher.The necessity came from single-handing during times when I couldn't easily leave the helm but it turned out to be so useful that my guests started using it as well, even girls.Every boat should have a piss pitcher. Maybe we could get it added to the list of Coast Gaurd required items.

 

[Warren Milberg]

Equal Opportunity....

...for women: The Whiz Biz!Ya gotta love it...is this a great country or what?

 

[Badger N.H.]

Whiz Biz is an Aussie company.

But yes this is a great country.

 

[NYSail]

Over the side

Yea but standing on the rail and peeing over the side of the boat is sort of a liberating thing.......If your gonna use a jar, just go below and use the head.

 

[abe]

Many todlers drown in toilets every year....

as they are learning to walk they put their heads in and they fall head first and drown. Should we require PDF on them? Ban toilets? Should we have mandatory toilet safety locks and place parents in jail for twenty years if they fail to do so and their todlers drown? Or as Naudiduck said, selection of the fittest?How far do we allow government to micromanage our lives?Personally, I am tired of the Stalins and Nazis micromanaging my live when there so many more important issues to deal with.abe