Unnecessary risk taking?

abe · Jun 14, 2006

Helmet laws and government wisdom....

The original purpose of the helmet laws was that those who did not wear them and got into an accident cost society/insurance lots of money...thus we all pay for it. Guess what, 20+years later we have found that those who do wear helmets don't die but become quadraplegics costing society even more money. I like to see a politician repeal the mandatory helmet laws in the name that these quads are costing society too much money. Maybe this is one of those cases that we can allow natural selection too.abeabe

Old Salt · Jun 14, 2006

Bill There is no data whatsoever

to support anything you wrote.Thats an "old Wives tale" about finding most people that drowned from falling over the side while peeing. I challenge you to find one (just one) documentable study that shows anything close to what you wrote.In fact you were also wrong saying drowning victims "were operating boats of various sizes" . Size of boat has more to corollate to death by drownings than most anything else. In fact, in 2004, 379 out of the 484 deaths by drownings occured in boats under 26 feet (almost 200 of them in boats under 16 feet). While only 11 drownings occured in boats larger than 26 feet. So there is something to be said for safety in size.Another very very interesting fact is that out of those 484 drownings only 7 occured in an auxillary Sailboat. While 244 occured in an open motorboat and almost 100 occured in a Kayak/Canoe.So I would submit if there are going to force wearing a PFD it should be aimed where the problem is the biggest (little boats and boats that go very fast - Duhhh - doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one)

Old Salt · Jun 14, 2006

Lets Ban Hot Tubs Or require PFD's in Hot Tubs !

If you are going by numbers of deaths/drownings then I think we should MANDATE forced wearing of PFD's in a Hot Tub !From 1979 to 1982 there were 30 residential spa-associated deaths reported to the Consumer Product Safety Commission. In fact In 1980, there were an estimated 1,100 persons with spa or hot tub injuries required emergency room treatment.Now THERE is your dangerous sport

Stu Jackson · Jun 14, 2006

Keep it simple

You own a boatYou learn to sail it, with or without othersYou should wear a PFD, but it's your choiceStuff happensThe government spends more on BS than saving people, WAY more

Ross · Jun 14, 2006

salty, maybe you have been around long

enough to remember the cartoons of OSHA approved saddle horses and kids swings and a wide range of other common and sometimes hurtful pastimes. Imagine what an OSHA approved canoe would look like. And further imagine the array of safety gear the occupants would be required to wear. General Custer might still be alive if OSHA had been at the Little Bighorn that day.

Old Salt · Jun 14, 2006

I miss Lawn Darts. Lets bring them back *!

I like letting nature takes it course in terms of natural selection.Why do we have to protect those not fit ? We are just breeding a weaker generation of humans. *x

abe · Jun 14, 2006

hmmmmm, there use to be a guy in Germany..

with very similar thoughts.abe

Bill Roosa · Jun 14, 2006

I got my information from the Boat US

Insurance magazine. It has a "did you know" sidebar every month and two years ago I distinctly remember reading that for recreational (power and sail) boats of less than 50' or so (don't remember the exact size but it did not include "big boats") 50% of the folks that drown where not wearing a PFD and of the males (70% of the 50%) fully 50% of them where recovered fully clothed but their fly down.You've seen some of the dumb dumbs on the Bay. Why is this so hard to believe? Just to settle the issue I'll go see if I can find the article. It may be a while.

Brian · Jun 14, 2006

Big difference

Abe,There is a big difference between nature making its selections and twisted individuals making theirs. There is no comparison. With Nature it is our choices that bring whatever comes our way. The government already interferes too much, but unfortunately as long as they steal money from my paycheck to fund the life support you are on because you didn’t wear a helmet and you didn’t have insurance, then I should have a say as to if you have to wear a helmet or a PFD. It’s all about personal responsibility, look at the motto on Badger’s license plate and it will make more sense.

tom · Jun 15, 2006

Ban Bathtubs NOW

Looking at data from the CDC it seems that once you are over 65 the most likely place for you to drown is in your bathtub!!!! We could save a lot of lives by getting rid of the dangerous things!!!!! Seriously I do think that having PFD's on small children is a good thing. I make my grandkids wear them even on the dock. It doesn't take long for a little one to be dead. Wearing a PFD while swimming might not be a bad idea. The self inflating kind that you manually activate. A common problem with young men is they try to impress the girls. They remember that they could easily swim X distance at the end of last summer but forget that they haven't been swimming since. I still believe that adults should be able to decide when to wear a PFD and that they have to live with their choices. But when I go sailing this weekend with my 5 year old grandchild he will be wearing his PFD on the dock and on the boat unless he is down below. He can't swim yet and sinks like lead!!!!

Warren Milberg · Jun 15, 2006

The problem...

with all those free spirits who chafe at so-called government interference their lives by requiring things like bikers to wear helmets (and perhaps making the wearing of PFDs mandatory) is that all goes well...until it doesn't. That free spirit guy winds up not having adequate or any insurance, for himself or those he leaves behind, and they/he then wind up getting some form of public assistance. Sure, you have every right to risk your own life by riding without a helmet (where permitted) or sailing in bad weather without a PFD. Just don't ask Uncle, or me, to help you or your family after you are dead, in the hosptal, or permanently disabled.

Dave D 94 H26 · Jun 15, 2006

kids yes!

Where I live it is mandatory for children under 12 to wear pfd's. When we went out for the first time, my oldest daughter said she wasn't going to wear one. I told her that was her choice and put her back in the car. She asked why and I told her she didn't have to wear a pfd unless she wanted to step foot on our boat. Haven't heard any chin music since. I also believe that with the low profile, self inflating models available we should all consider it, even though "it will never happen to me". My children need me and my wife needs my income! ;D

Herb Parsons · Jun 15, 2006

The Problem...

With all those free spirits who insist on being able to smoke is that when he (or she) develops lung disease, and doesn't have adequate or any insurance, for himself or those he leaves behind, and they/he then wind up getting some form of public assistance.oops, did I say "smoking" I meantWith all those free spirits who insist on being able to eat anything and everything they want, is that when he (or she) develops obesesity related problems (heart disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, the list goes on), and doesn't have adequate or any insurance, for himself or those he leaves behind, and they/he then wind up getting some form of public assistance.Ooops, did I say eating, I meant drinking.I think you see my point. Where do we draw the line? What level of interference is OK?Maybe it's time to move this little thread to the political arena

Herb Parsons · Jun 15, 2006

Kids & PFD's

I love the water. I love my grandkids more. A couple of my biggest nightmares are that one will get in our pool without us knowing it, or one will have a water accident related to the boat. I literally have nightmares about both.When the grand-daughter that lives with us started going to the boat, we made a rule. She has to put on the PFD as soon as she gets out of the car. Literally, in the marina parking lot. We undo the straps on the (government required) child seat, and put the PFD on her as soon as she's on the pavement.One time, my wife dropped by with her, and we had not put PFD's in her van (we usually take my SUV to the marina). Ava got out, and started crying because she didn't "have my jacket". I was so proud. We adopted a rule that if she's at the marina with no PFD, she MUST hold the hand of an adult the entire time.She prefers wearing the PFD.

ed · Jun 15, 2006

Why are we looking?

Seems to me if you dont want to wear pfds its ok, but dont expect me to finance looking for you when you come up missing. I dont think the odds of finding him alive are good enough to justify the search!If i go over alone with no jacket on that mean i dont give a damn about being found alive or dead! I think we would be better off the ban swimming pools. Hundreds of kids die every year in backyard pools. Way more than guns or drowning or motorcycles combined.Yeah lets ban pools first!!then we can ban doctors and hospitals. more accidental deaths there than anywhere.Regulating the boaters should be WAY down on the list. If you want to save lives on the water, quit eating snow crabs. the guys that do that die to feed ya! No demand not crabbing in alaska!

Sean · Jun 15, 2006

Wow, almost 1500 Views!

This sounds like a win/win discussion!

The more we talk about it here, the more people will be contious of using (or not using) a PFD!That's my way of seeing the cup half full..It's almost Friday!Good luck and happy sailing to all..-Sean

Herb Parsons · Jun 15, 2006

But Ed

What if someone said:"Seems to me if you want to unnecessarily sail a boat its ok, but dont expect me to finance looking for you when you come up missing."Again, where do we draw the line. Why is getting from point A to point B via sail (when other modes of transportation are faster, safer, and more reliable) because "I want to" OK, but doing so with no PFD because "I want to" isn't?That's one of the problems with trying to regulate individual decisions. Most people want THEIR level of "OK" to be the minimum standard.

David · Jun 15, 2006

Great Data

The Coast Guard data linked in an earlier reply (and here it is for 2003 for stats junkies) is really interesting.If you are operating a sailboat of over 26 feet, and if you are not impaired by alcohol, you have almost a zero chance of falling overboard into the ocean and drowning. In 2004 there were 7 fall overboard and drowns on over 60,000 aux. powered sailboats. It is hard to parse the data but likely 30% to 50% of these were impaired, and most were likely in lakes. You are much more likely to drown falling out of a capsized dinghy into a lake.Overall the number of deaths involving the over 300,000 registered sailboats of all kinds is very low, much lower than I expected.This is not to say you shouldn't be careful, obviously, but the chances of falling overboard into a large body of water where you cannot be easily seen and retreived seem to be very small, and that is why so few people die this way.

Anchor Down · Jun 15, 2006

Freud Would Have a Great Comment Right Here

Yep.

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