Ditto! I have an 11 hp Yanmar with a fixed 2 blade, and in calm conditions can get to 6 knots with no problem. I don't usually run full out like that, but it's nice to know the little engine will do it. Mostly use mine in & out of the slip, and to cross a few miles of calm lake when necessary. Oh yeah...put 8 gallons of diesel in last season, still have just under 4 gallons left. This thing just sips the fuel! Love my little diesel.
Universal M18 in a Catalina 30 underpowered
- Thread starter John rolka
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Bruce,
I recently sent an email to a guy named Bruce. His questions were also about the 5411. Here's what I wrote based on my experience:
The 5411 was a good ol workhorse, but I felt it was very underpowered for the C30. However, I hear all the time of folks rebuilding them & they worked great.
Whether it’s worth it, depends on the condition of the head, block, pistons, valves and so on. That being said, I see you sail long Island Sound, so I’m guessing you have strong currents. Did your engine get you 5 kts. or better? I’m guessing not.
I was so underpowered, while at Key West one time, I changed to a 3 blade prop for the return trip. That gave my better speed with less slippage however, within a year my seals went.
Some good news, I re-did the seals, had the engine sandblasted & repainted. Some new belts & I sold it at a West Marine flea market for $2500.00. I believe I put $800.00 into this.
Looking back, I almost got the 25XP & I should’ve. What stopped me was that on my 1980, I would have had to build out the settee about 3-4” for the longer engine. It would have been an easy fix, I’m mechanically inclined, But hindsight is always perfect DUH.
So there you have it my friend, some food for thought. With the volatile weather, seas & currents, the biggest engine in my opinion is the way to go. You never wanna be in the ****, and find your iron jib is too weak.
The M320A I have along with a 3 blade, is fine but still lacking a little in bulldog power. I cruise 5 kts. in most conditions. I re-powered in 1998, so pricing back then was $5000.00 for a “full-spec” engine (tranny incl.). I had an old panel located port side way down low. Bought an Admiral panel & wiring harness at about $450.00.
Pricing will be higher since Westerbeke took over.
On the other hand, you may find a reputable re-built engine service to save money. If a re-built is done right, this could work for you pal.
CR
I recently sent an email to a guy named Bruce. His questions were also about the 5411. Here's what I wrote based on my experience:
The 5411 was a good ol workhorse, but I felt it was very underpowered for the C30. However, I hear all the time of folks rebuilding them & they worked great.
Whether it’s worth it, depends on the condition of the head, block, pistons, valves and so on. That being said, I see you sail long Island Sound, so I’m guessing you have strong currents. Did your engine get you 5 kts. or better? I’m guessing not.
I was so underpowered, while at Key West one time, I changed to a 3 blade prop for the return trip. That gave my better speed with less slippage however, within a year my seals went.
Some good news, I re-did the seals, had the engine sandblasted & repainted. Some new belts & I sold it at a West Marine flea market for $2500.00. I believe I put $800.00 into this.
Looking back, I almost got the 25XP & I should’ve. What stopped me was that on my 1980, I would have had to build out the settee about 3-4” for the longer engine. It would have been an easy fix, I’m mechanically inclined, But hindsight is always perfect DUH.
So there you have it my friend, some food for thought. With the volatile weather, seas & currents, the biggest engine in my opinion is the way to go. You never wanna be in the ****, and find your iron jib is too weak.
The M320A I have along with a 3 blade, is fine but still lacking a little in bulldog power. I cruise 5 kts. in most conditions. I re-powered in 1998, so pricing back then was $5000.00 for a “full-spec” engine (tranny incl.). I had an old panel located port side way down low. Bought an Admiral panel & wiring harness at about $450.00.
Pricing will be higher since Westerbeke took over.
On the other hand, you may find a reputable re-built engine service to save money. If a re-built is done right, this could work for you pal.
CR
Ron, Your description of what happened to your original 5411 blowing the seals after installing a 3 blade prop. is exactly why I didn't install one on mine. I have been wary about over torqueing the engine & old tranny by over propping. Better to have a prop a lil small then too big.
JR,
Your correct, and I was aware that a 3 blade might be too much for the 5411.
I gotta tell ya man, I spent about 6 years with the little guy(5411), and it was very frustrating. I changed out numerous 2 blade props and based on performance tests, I had the correct size & pitch for a two blade.
I still couldn't get out of my own way. I found out back then that the engine HP theory was lacking in balls. Engine sizing was based on 2 HP per ton. As you can see by the newer boats, this is no longer the thinking.
The 5411 rated HP(max) is at the coupler (with no load). Add to that the HP loss from here to the prop while @ cruising speed, you were lucky to pull 5 HP. So C30's 1980 vintage were grossly underpowered.
In my area, inlet tidal currents, seas, winds & frequent storms would keep me at a crawl. It was common for me to have a .5 KT speed thru some passes during strong tides. It was agonizing and also dangerous with power boats zipping by me. I could be first in line on a bridge opening with 3 or more sailboats behind me. I had to pull out, circle around & was always the last boat thru. I didn't want to hinder the other guys.
The reason for the 3 blade was on my first Key West trip. I had 20 miles to go to reach Smith's Shoals. From there another 10 miles to the Northwest Channel leading into Key West. This was 12:00 noon. Winds clocked off the nose 15-20 KTS steady. Seas got up to 4-5 footers.
At midnight, 20 miles later I hit The Shoals. Five hours later I dropped anchor. I did try to sail it tacking back-n-forth but the time spent was not worth it. By the time I tacked back to the rum line, I hadn't gained headway; so I motored. Hence the prop changeout at Key West. I wasn't going thru this again on the return trip.
The good news was that it made my decision on a bigger engine. I knew the 3 blade was only an interim fix, and the 5411's time was short.
CR
Your correct, and I was aware that a 3 blade might be too much for the 5411.
I gotta tell ya man, I spent about 6 years with the little guy(5411), and it was very frustrating. I changed out numerous 2 blade props and based on performance tests, I had the correct size & pitch for a two blade.
I still couldn't get out of my own way. I found out back then that the engine HP theory was lacking in balls. Engine sizing was based on 2 HP per ton. As you can see by the newer boats, this is no longer the thinking.
The 5411 rated HP(max) is at the coupler (with no load). Add to that the HP loss from here to the prop while @ cruising speed, you were lucky to pull 5 HP. So C30's 1980 vintage were grossly underpowered.
In my area, inlet tidal currents, seas, winds & frequent storms would keep me at a crawl. It was common for me to have a .5 KT speed thru some passes during strong tides. It was agonizing and also dangerous with power boats zipping by me. I could be first in line on a bridge opening with 3 or more sailboats behind me. I had to pull out, circle around & was always the last boat thru. I didn't want to hinder the other guys.
The reason for the 3 blade was on my first Key West trip. I had 20 miles to go to reach Smith's Shoals. From there another 10 miles to the Northwest Channel leading into Key West. This was 12:00 noon. Winds clocked off the nose 15-20 KTS steady. Seas got up to 4-5 footers.
At midnight, 20 miles later I hit The Shoals. Five hours later I dropped anchor. I did try to sail it tacking back-n-forth but the time spent was not worth it. By the time I tacked back to the rum line, I hadn't gained headway; so I motored. Hence the prop changeout at Key West. I wasn't going thru this again on the return trip.
The good news was that it made my decision on a bigger engine. I knew the 3 blade was only an interim fix, and the 5411's time was short.
CR
There re so many opinions about the amount of power one should have on their Catalina 30. For my use, having some extra hp is important. I need to be able to power through rough seas and wind. However, if one is strictly a light wind/wave day sailor, the 11hp engine would suffice. Before I purchased my Cat 30 with the 30hp Atomic 4(gas), I had my heart set on the 23hp diesel. But I found a great deal on this boat. So far, after nearly 3months of extensive use, I am very happy with the Atomic 4. It is very quiet and provides the power I needed to push directly through 7 foot seas. I will switch to a 3 bladed prop for next season. The 11hp would have been motoring backwards.
However, for some the 11hp may be all they need and the Univ. diesel engines are VERY reliable.
However, for some the 11hp may be all they need and the Univ. diesel engines are VERY reliable.
Ron, Thanks for the input. You've already been through all the maintenance that if I haven't done, will be doing in the near future. I hope to nurse my baby diesel along to the point where in one day, we'll move up to the blue water cruiser. But for the money, my C-30 was hard to beat. I knew the rep. that the 5411 had, & while it was initally a little bit of a let down, I have learned to live with its limitations & eccentricities, which make me turn off the engine sooner, & has made me a better sailor, not a motorer.
To PuraVida, as far as the Atomic 4, I envy your potential horse power. but a friend who has a A 4 reminded me that due to its 1:1 lack of gear ratio, it maxes out speed at about 2,500 -to 3,000 rpm, & thus can never really reach its total horse power rating. As Ron points out, there is also a lot of potential horse power output lost in the transfer from the crank shaft, through the trans. & finally to the prop. At the end of the day, we are sailing in a sail boat. If you want to motor fast, then you have to buy a power boat.
To PuraVida, as far as the Atomic 4, I envy your potential horse power. but a friend who has a A 4 reminded me that due to its 1:1 lack of gear ratio, it maxes out speed at about 2,500 -to 3,000 rpm, & thus can never really reach its total horse power rating. As Ron points out, there is also a lot of potential horse power output lost in the transfer from the crank shaft, through the trans. & finally to the prop. At the end of the day, we are sailing in a sail boat. If you want to motor fast, then you have to buy a power boat.
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