Universal alt bracket\not rehash :-)

[Stu Jackson]

Why bother?!?

1. I have seen these engines run 25+ years with no issue, then out of the blue it fails.....

2. FWIW I have adjustment arms with similar dimensions driving 180 amp alternators. I believe the failure of the arm in Stu's photo was secondary to the aluminum bracket failing...

3. The big problem now is these timing gear cases are getting very, very, very scarce, the M-25's are non-existent, so any failure could mean an entire new engine or buying a used engine to salvage parts...

1. Yes. We had about 1,000 to 1,200 hours on our engine when it broke, OEM 55A Motorola alternator with an AutoMac. The boat was 13 years old. Just coincidence, really. 13 is actually a lucky # in our family, my daughter was born on Friday the 13th! :dance::dance::dance:

2. Could be. As I wrote it up, it took out the oil filter and the coolant hose underneath it. I believe those two things, more-so the hose, saved the timing gear cover from getting smashed by the alternator. It was so long ago (1999 most likely) that I didn't inspect the connection of the old bracket to the top of the engine/gear cover. There was no damage there, perhaps because of the fact that it cracked as Maine Sail noted. It is NOT the adjusting bracket, it IS anything made out of a casting. And my NEW adjusting arm that came with the kit broke last year: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7398.0.html

The picture shows the new bracket. The old one seemed to be attached to the manifold. This is an M25 engine.

3. Yes, yes, yes. In one of my links, I told the story of a friend of mine who had this issue and he couldn't find a new timing gear cover for months! Spent $700 for one. Only other solution? A new freakin' engine!!!

Geez, what it takes to get some people to get off their keesters.

I guess the ONLY other alternative is to ignore the "Should I really do this?" questions, but we feel we'd be irresponsible if we did.

Your boat, your choice.

 

[Skipper]

Yes I have seen a failed bracket, and fixed it, on a Universal M-18. On that one the bracket failed NOT the adjustment arm. When it failed it also apparently created a hairline crack in the timing gear case, but it did not leak, so we left it alone. The timing gear case hole was also ovaled out. I also had a customer with an M-18 which had a blue timing gear case installed before he bought the boat.. I did not do this upgrade but the timing gear cover had been replaced and the alt bracket had been upgraded. This points to another M-18 bracket or gear case failure. Both engines had stock alternators. The only adjustment arm I have seen fail is the one from Stu's photo. Not a single one of the 10 or failures I have done have had the arm fail but a couple were bent as a result of the failure. In my failures it is usually the cast aluminum bracket that fails but I have seen the timing gear case fail first too. The failure modes are two fold. #1 Sometimes the timing gear housing fails and the bracket is fine/intact. #2 Usually the bracket fails. The factory bracket is / was cast aluminum and the adjustment arm is steel. Just because stuff is not on google does not mean the issues don't exist. I have done at least 10 of these for actual failures and perhaps another 10-12 more for preventative replacement. I think I have pictures from just two or three of those job. I also have a number of these engines that have blue timing gear covers and I'm not the one who did the repair....... The old cast aluminum alternator bracket is a weak point and can fail regardless of whether it is on an M-18 or M-25. The timing gear cases on both engines are also weak points with almost identical dimensions. I have seen these engines run 25+ years with no issue, then out of the blue it fails..... FWIW I have adjustment arms with similar dimensions driving 180 amp alternators. I believe the failure of the arm in Stu's photo was secondary to the aluminum bracket failing... The big problem now is these timing gear cases are getting very, very, very scarce, the M-25's are non-existent, so any failure could mean an entire new engine or buying a used engine to salvage parts...

Outstanding hands on info. Thank you for your time. Invaluable insight specific to this motor.

 

[Skipper]

1. Yes. We had about 1,000 to 1,200 hours on our engine when it broke, OEM 55A Motorola alternator with an AutoMac. The boat was 13 years old. Just coincidence, really. 13 is actually a lucky # in our family, my daughter was born on Friday the 13th! :dance::dance::dance: 2. Could be. As I wrote it up, it took out the oil filter and the coolant hose underneath it. I believe those two things, more-so the hose, saved the timing gear cover from getting smashed by the alternator. It was so long ago (1999 most likely) that I didn't inspect the connection of the old bracket to the top of the engine/gear cover. There was no damage there, perhaps because of the fact that it cracked as Maine Sail noted. It is NOT the adjusting bracket, it IS anything made out of a casting. And my NEW adjusting arm that came with the kit broke last year: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7398.0.html The picture shows the new bracket. The old one seemed to be attached to the manifold. This is an M25 engine. 3. Yes, yes, yes. In one of my links, I told the story of a friend of mine who had this issue and he couldn't find a new timing gear cover for months! Spent $700 for one. Only other solution? A new freakin' engine!!! Geez, what it takes to get some people to get off their keesters. I guess the ONLY other alternative is to ignore the "Should I really do this?" questions, but we feel we'd be irresponsible if we did. Your boat, your choice.

More fantastic info thank you again. I'll make the mod work even if have to cut a little wood.

 

[Skipper]

Ok done. Pic.

For those of us with the short manifold studs, One trick I found to get the studs out without rem the manifold was to use a half sized nut in the back, so that the full sized one would have enough threads to hang on. -pic. I also put a spring washer in between them after I mashed it flat with a hammer. -not in pic. The spring washer is paper thin. Then I used an old 10mm open end wrench that the local jet ski shop ground down for me to make it exactly as thin as the back nut. Wrenched that back nut after locking them together and bingo.

 

[Skipper]

One more thing. Thank you to mainsail and Stu and others for all your help, especially mainsail's mods and pics which were very informative.

 

[Richard19068]

Ok done. Pic.

For those of us with the short manifold studs, One trick I found to get the studs out without rem the manifold was to use a half sized nut in the back, so that the full sized one would have enough threads to hang on. -pic. I also put a spring washer in between them after I mashed it flat with a hammer. -not in pic. The spring washer is paper thin. Then I used an old 10mm open end wrench that the local jet ski shop ground down for me to make it exactly as thin as the back nut. Wrenched that back nut after locking them together and bingo.

Great trick! I probably would have never thought of that.

I assume you ended up with enough room without having to cut the wood paneling?

 

[Skipper]

Great trick! I probably would have never thought of that. I assume you ended up with enough room without having to cut the wood paneling?

Yep. It ended up having more room than before. I think someone said it would. I worried for nothing.

I didn't even have to use the hose and elbow they supplied with the bracket. Good thing because I had just replaced those hoses with new. The extra bits must be needed on the larger engines I guess. Oh well, onto the spares bin; I'd need them for something else a minute later if I tossed them out.

 

[dparilla]

Glad it worked! Time to go sailing.

 

[RobG]

Anybody know if this applies to an M12? I'll be down to the boat this weekend (I hope) and will inspect the set-up more closely. Scary stuff. And thanks for the re-hash. I hadn't been aware of this.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Anybody know if this applies to an M12?

I don't know. However, the issue is the failure of castings. So, check what your bracket is made of. Get some pictures, closeups, too.

 

[Skipper]

I don't know. However, the issue is the failure of castings. So, check what your bracket is made of. Get some pictures, closeups, too.

I think the 12 already had the upgraded bracket. The service bulletin was only for the 18 and 25('s).