Ugly, Ugly Sailboats

cb32863 · Jan 25, 2021

AlastairLC said:
As I gaze at the ads for new sailboats in the sailing magazines (Beneteau, etc.), I’m struck by how ugly they are: triangular boxes with sails.
I can understand the desire for greater hull speed and below decks comfort but at what cost? Most of us sailors, I believe, appreciate the aesthetics of sailboats as well as their performance. Where has that gone? (And don’t get me started on ecru saloon finishes.)

So which boats do you so despise? Should one just not move forward with design, performance, safety, materials sciences, and modern technology? I personally like some of the new boats, X Yachts, Beneteau, Pogo Structures, Elan, Italia, to name a few. So you would rather that these builders build boats based on old, inefficient designs that probably cost more to build? Maybe you could do your own design build of "classic plastic", I bet you would make 10's of dollars....... Its called evolution of design and technology.

BrianRobin · Jan 25, 2021

We'll get use to it, the same as we do with cars and trucks all looking the same with their ugliness

Leeward Rail · Jan 25, 2021

BrianRobin said:
We'll get use to it, the same as we do with cars and trucks all looking the same with their ugliness

I dont think humans ever fully get "used to it".

In fashion and architecture, design esthetics often cycle back around for a reason.

For vehicles, the tyranny of the wind tunnel is the main culprit.
They all end up looking the same. 4 door hatchbacks all look like running shoes with small rear windows due to backup cameras.
BUT specialty cars are either going ultra modern or retro looking.

Sob I suspect there is future hope for sailboats too. If only for their topsides.

That said, the current trend, especially for the younger set, is to covet cats in both power and sail. Floating barge bungalows with everything a home has. (Or pontoon boats that look like they strapped oil drums to a dock)

I'm ok with it. I hope that utilitarian, steel and aluminium, SUV like. monohulls drop in price because of that.

That said, I could care less what others own or do. Being an outlier has it's benefits.I already own uncommon vehicles and am married to an uncommon wife.

rgranger · Jan 25, 2021

BrianRobin said:
We'll get use to it, the same as we do with cars and trucks all looking the same with their ugliness

Michael Davis · Jan 25, 2021

The leather belt holding it all together is a ultra-modern design feature.

capta · Jan 25, 2021

cb32863 said:
So which boats do you so despise? Should one just not move forward with design, performance, safety, materials sciences, and modern technology? .... Its called evolution of design and technology.

Is there any reason why these "advances" you mention can't have some shear or grace? The pie slice design may well be an improvement in performance, but I'm not a racer, nor do I find most of the new interiors more "livable".
To me it's a lot less about the evolution of design and technology, and more about the bottom line and trying to sell boats that make a better weekend condo on the water for the wife. Therefore, many of the interior designs just are not practical for boats underway.

thinwater · Jan 25, 2021

Beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but ugly is reserved for things that don't work. Form follows function, and few objects that work well can be rated as truly ugly.

By the same token, a boat cannot be beautiful if it does not sail well. I don't just mean fast, of course. Define "well" anyway you like. But if it does not, in some way, sail exceptionally, then it can never be truly beautiful. Pretty, maybe.

Now, take a functional design, start adding a bunch of junk, and you can get close. I see that one a lot.

TomY · Jan 25, 2021

AlastairLC said:
As I gaze at the ads for new sailboats in the sailing magazines (Beneteau, etc.), I’m struck by how ugly they are: triangular boxes with sails.
I can understand the desire for greater hull speed and below decks comfort but at what cost? Most of us sailors, I believe, appreciate the aesthetics of sailboats as well as their performance. Where has that gone? (And don’t get me started on ecru saloon finishes.)

Bad designs are nothing new, just like good ones. You can go back in time and find plenty of 50 year old boats that turned out to be lemons. I love some of the new sailboat designs, but like any era, there are lots I don't care for.

That's just my taste, which is subjective.

I think design takes some years of actual use before it can be said that it is a sustainable design. Boats, I figure it takes a few decades, then their popularity (or lack of) begins to show.

Jumpstart · Jan 25, 2021

I like my boats simple. Lean with graceful line. Cramming too much interior in a boat has created a lot of fat bottomed girls with beam dragged way aft. I'm not particularly fond of hard chines either. My current boat.

TomY · Jan 25, 2021

J boats never built an ugly boat. Good design work lead by sailing first, kitchens, bathrooms, staterooms, way down the list of priorities.

Anyway, it's proven today, older J boats are considered classic plastic.

Michael Davis · Jan 25, 2021

TomY said:
Bad designs are nothing new, just like good ones. You can go back in time and find plenty of 50 year old boats that turned out to be lemons

Had a Buccaneer 240 that gets my vote for ugly. Neither pretty nor a good sailer. It’s only saving grace was tons of interior space for just 24 feet.

jon hansen · Jan 25, 2021

Jumpstart said:
I like my boats simple. Lean with graceful line. Cramming too much interior in a boat has created a lot of fat bottomed girls with beam dragged way aft. I'm not particularly fond of hard chines either. My current boat.View attachment 189560

i love the design of your vessel. a sailors sailboat.

jon hansen · Jan 25, 2021

our old aldens are easy to sail well as well
jon

thinwater · Jan 25, 2021

When cruising, depending on your style, you spend 85-95% of your time at anchor, and 5-15% underway. Try to explain why they have to squat in a cold shower to the non-sailors in your crew (my last boat was a comfortable cat, which sailed very well, thank you, but was not conventionally pretty). But she was one of the most functional choices for my sailing venue (Chesapeake bay and coastal cruising).

With this math, does it make sense to sacrifice comfort and livability at anchor and underway in good-moderate weather for better sailing? Not sayin' I like a dock queen, but the math isn't wrong. Each of us has our own set of priorities.

----

BTW, in general, I really don't care for the way trimarans look. But my F-24 ticks all the right performance boxes for the sailing I'm doing now. By that yard stick, she can't be considered ugly. Just not pretty.

JRT · Jan 25, 2021

I take a Jeanneau 440 right now if I could and my wife would love me for it. I like the classic lines but much like old house that I did own in Maine, I know what I like more for a happy wife and life and the new designs get her excited to spend money and sail vs the old ones that don't make her happy.

Captain Larry-DH · Jan 25, 2021

JRT said:
I take a Jeanneau 440 right now if I could and my wife would love me for it. I like the classic lines but much like old house that I did own in Maine, I know what I like more for a happy wife and life and the new designs get her excited to spend money and sail vs the old ones that don't make her happy.

I chartered one for a week in the BVI's last spring. Nice boat, but it was a power hog as-equipped: It drew 7 amps all the time, with only refrigeration on. Add lights and electronics and it was drawing in the teens under operation. That's a boat that needed a big house bank and genset. Considering space I don't think solar would suffice, even in the BVIs.
It sailed well, for a dispacement mono with a fixed prop, and it was a very comfortable boat at anchor.

Captain Larry-DH · Jan 25, 2021

@JRT if you’re serious about buying a 440 I would add a few caveats; IMHO the interior is beautiful but it’s manufactured, not “crafted”. There are a lot of laminate surfaces, and they weren’t holding up well on the one-year-old charter boat. You can chalk that up to heavy charter use, but I didn’t have the impression of construction sturdiness. We had a loose table edge band and door frame edge, which I taped to prevent further detachment. The “systems” were very complex “state of the art”, and would be difficult to troubleshoot without tech support. It was challenging to walk from the forward head to the main cabin because you’d have to open and close interfering doors in sequence (no issue when the boat is still, but annoying if underway in seas). The extra large storage locker in the bow is very nice for lines and fenders or sails, but the port cockpit seats open straight to the 3rd cabin. So that 3rd cabin on the port side is really only usable for storage of large objects or perhaps as a stowage/workspace not ideal as a guest cabin (but ok for kids up to maybe or 12 years old). The upholstery was beautiful, and at anchor the beautiful galley was well liked by all! The transom swim platform was also a great feature.