Traveler car/track as tether?
- Thread starter BAD ORCA
- Start date
Yup perfectly. I have done this to most of the deck hardware that I have removed already. Luckily they removed the core and made a solid fiberglass layup under the cleats, winches and blocks so i dont need to touch those. For the granny bars I was considering cutting away the interior of the coach roof underneath the installation points and laminating pieces of solid 3/4 G-10 behind the fasteners with epoxy and drilling through that. I was thinking I would then add large washers or a backing plate behind those and bolt right through the entire thing. The vinyl headliner has zippers installed so I can get access to most of that area without destroying the headliner.
Would you be laminating to the top fiberglass layer? Not sure which is easier..both would work.
dj
Yeah, it may be overkill to cut away the interior roof and add solid G-10 like I described. Not to mention a LOT of work. If I have enough mounting points, drill and fill with a big aluminum or stainless backing plate might be plenty strong and a lot easier. Not ready to do the project so lots of time to think about it.
I would also recommend getting out on other people's boats.
There is value in seeing how they are run/rigged, even if different boats and run better or worse.
Racing is a good way to do this, although often it is the poorly run and rigged boats that always need crew.
Finally - I strongly recommend attending a full session Safety at Sea course.
You won't get any official certifications out of that, but you will gain practical knowledge from experienced people. Or at least as much as can be condensed into a small session shoreside format.
No - do not do the online class, you are wasting everybody's time.
Yes - do the in-person classes, with the additional sessions where you need to jump into the water and climb into a life raft yourself, and help others.
There is value in seeing how they are run/rigged, even if different boats and run better or worse.
Racing is a good way to do this, although often it is the poorly run and rigged boats that always need crew.
Finally - I strongly recommend attending a full session Safety at Sea course.
You won't get any official certifications out of that, but you will gain practical knowledge from experienced people. Or at least as much as can be condensed into a small session shoreside format.
No - do not do the online class, you are wasting everybody's time.
Yes - do the in-person classes, with the additional sessions where you need to jump into the water and climb into a life raft yourself, and help others.
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,790
I have used the traditional jack lines that run from stem to stern along the boat's sides. We tried webbing and rope. Rope was easy to find, but it was a tripping or rolling your ankle issue. Webbing was better, but if you fell, it was over the edge of the boat, and then you were dangling, hoping one of the crew saw you and helped you back on board.
In 2015, I found the writings of John Harries, "Attainable Adventure Cruising". He had used the same foreaft setup and discussed the analytical issues with the traditional setup. He provided a much better idea, "Center Line" jacklines. Bow to mast, Mast to cockpit with rationale about such a structural setup. It makes sense to me. He also says he thinks of the boat's edge as a 500-foot fall into the abyss. Tethers and jacklines should be designed to keep you inside the lifelines.
I manage my sails at the mast. I will install custom granny bars to help stabilize my standing at the mast. I tether up whenever I sail. I use multiple tethers and switch from one to the other as I move from the cockpit to the mast or the mast to the bow. My tethers have a release at my harness. I also carry a knife and a seatbelt cutting tool in my life vest, just in case the tether release fails.
Last year, John Harries worked with an engineer to put some numbers together regarding the stresses associated with jacklines, tethers, harnesses, and a falling crew member. The numbers may scare you. The comment by @thinwater about cracked ribs is a real factor.
We each need to decide what works for us and our sailing activity. It is better to understand the forces involved as you develop your plan.
Safe Sailing.
In 2015, I found the writings of John Harries, "Attainable Adventure Cruising". He had used the same foreaft setup and discussed the analytical issues with the traditional setup. He provided a much better idea, "Center Line" jacklines. Bow to mast, Mast to cockpit with rationale about such a structural setup. It makes sense to me. He also says he thinks of the boat's edge as a 500-foot fall into the abyss. Tethers and jacklines should be designed to keep you inside the lifelines.
I manage my sails at the mast. I will install custom granny bars to help stabilize my standing at the mast. I tether up whenever I sail. I use multiple tethers and switch from one to the other as I move from the cockpit to the mast or the mast to the bow. My tethers have a release at my harness. I also carry a knife and a seatbelt cutting tool in my life vest, just in case the tether release fails.
Last year, John Harries worked with an engineer to put some numbers together regarding the stresses associated with jacklines, tethers, harnesses, and a falling crew member. The numbers may scare you. The comment by @thinwater about cracked ribs is a real factor.
We each need to decide what works for us and our sailing activity. It is better to understand the forces involved as you develop your plan.
Safe Sailing.
Thanks. I recently subscribed so will look for the articles. I was thinking something similar recently about running a jackline right down the center of the boat on dedicated connection points with hefty backing plates. My decks are nice and uncluttered.
There was an article, I believe in GOB, where a guy who was tethered went overboard in mediocre conditions. They were going 5 or 6 knots and he ended up pinned against the bow. It took his wife a long time and a lot of struggle to get him back on board. If I remember correctly, they couldn't stop due to conditions. I'd imagine a tether of the proper length would substantially reduce MOB's?
jssailem
SBO Weather and Forecasting Forum Jim & John
- Oct 22, 2014
- 22,790
Yes shorter not longer. Or moving the jack one to the center line of the boat, not along the edge (which is easier to set up not better)
It's interesting how we get so wrapped up with tether systems and don't talk as much about setting up the boat to reduce the possibility of going overboard simply by design.
If you make your boat very hard to fall off of, that also makes life better. Things like toe rails, correct stanchion height, solid rails or larger diameter life lines, those kinds of things. There is a lot that can be done to keep people on board in addition to tethers...
dj
I would say, know your boat and your sailing.
There definitely can be such thing as too high. You should consider how the windward lifeline restricts movement along the windward side of your boat, when heeled. Consider angles that you might be heeled during less-than-ideal conditions. When the boat heels, the top of the windward lifeline angles leeward of the gunwale, thus narrowing your walkway and restricting movement on the windward side. The more you heel and the higher the lifeline, the more pronounced the effect.
Also, it is hard to prevent going over the top unless your lifelines were absurdly high. But, it is just as common (if not more) to go under or between the lifelines, and that is something that is easier to prevent.
It seems intuitive that higher is generally safer. But, does anyone have any information that suggests that higher lifelines made a difference or would have made a difference in actual COB or near-COB situations?
The ISAF states a minimum of 24" for lifelines above the working deck - that is to low for really being safe, you can flip over them - as in - they are almost more of a tripping hazard than a safety feature. But that's a racing regulation and they tend towards performance oriented regulations.
It's really preferred that your lifelines run 36" to 42" high. 42" high lifelines aren't going to get in your way while heeling....
Additionally, while it used to be considered good practice to run netting from deck to top rail of your life lines for off-shore, that has seemingly fallen out of favor and you rarely see it any more. Good quality netting that the joints are made with knots, not sewn together, is the type to use. It's more expensive, not unexpectedly. This is a really good addition to the off-shore sailboat. My boat actually has small hooks running the entire length along the toe rail so you can attach the netting below the toe rail. Find that on a modern boat...
dj
p.s. here's a quote from an old thread on cruisers and sailors "The Pardey's have some interesting things to say on this subject. First, they point out that the most important part of remaining safe on the boat is learning to stay on the boat. They have a lifeline set up that includes additional lines put in place between the shrouds and boom gallows, while sailing at a height of about 60" if I remember correctly. Unfortunately, as Jeff pointed out, lifelines are not safety railings. They are designed to be a last thing to grab onto before going overboard, and a solid bulwarks or even a toe rail will provide much more safety. Additionally, consider the additional leverage that must be supported with taller stancions. Adaquate handholds on deck are a must. The rule of one hand for the boat does no good if there is nothing for that one hand to hold onto."
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For vessels classified as Small Passenger Vessels the rails must be 1,000 mm (39.5") above the deck. Bulwarks can count towards that height. Wire is not acceptable, except in a few locations, the rails must be solid.
www.ecfr.gov
Federal Register :: Request Access
www.ecfr.gov
Great reference! When there are minimums - you might want to go above them - a.k.a. go to 42 inches....For vessels classified as Small Passenger Vessels the rails must be 1,000 mm (39.5") above the deck. Bulwarks can count towards that height. Wire is not acceptable, except in a few locations, the rails must be solid.
Federal Register :: Request Access
I have to say, I'm a real fan of having solid rails rather than wire. I really wanted to put that on my current boat, but didn't have the time or resources so just replaced my wire lifelines. If both time and money appear after all the projects that I have to do are done - I will revisit this.
If anyone has ever sailed on a sailboat with solid rail lifelines, they will understand just how much better they are than wire. My last decent blue water boat had them - they might look a little weird in todays world, but man are they nice to have!
dj