Trailer Tongue Extenders
- Thread starter CaptGregg
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Hitch end of the car would stress the hitch. Without trailer extension has 2 bolts running through it and at last 2 feet of channel left in the trailer when fully extended. This gives it quite a bit of rigidity and it doesn't really sag at all. On the other hand I use a 1ft extension on the jeep end to clear the spare tire on the liberty, this thing sags like crazy and I couldn't imagine putting anything longer on that end... I'm not sure if that's what your thinking of, but from my limited experience I'd stick with modifying the trailer.
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The ideal weight ratio as I understand it is, is 60/40. The 60 on the trailer tongue of course. That's what u-haul recommends, and they've rented 3 or 4 trailers. You know this is close, simply from a physics point of view. Nothing pulls so stupid as a trailer that's too light on the front. It's kind of a way to cheat, if you're towing vehicle doesn't have muck load carrying capacity. And not such a good plan.
With a boat winched tightly up into the bow chock rubber though, you've effectively made the boat a piece of the structural integrity of the trailer, if the boat is lashed down tight of course, thereby reducing some of those stresses aft of the winch tower.
And if I were prone to use the chain/cable method of launching, I would put a simple skid plate under the tongue, just to keep the hitch from dragging..
With a boat winched tightly up into the bow chock rubber though, you've effectively made the boat a piece of the structural integrity of the trailer, if the boat is lashed down tight of course, thereby reducing some of those stresses aft of the winch tower.
And if I were prone to use the chain/cable method of launching, I would put a simple skid plate under the tongue, just to keep the hitch from dragging..
I was just reading somewhere (I think it's in the Catalina General Handbook) that you want 8% of the total combined trailer/boat weight on the tongue.
I have no idea how much my boat/trailer weighs, I guess the best way to find out is to go to a truck weight station and weigh it. I have heard on other boards, some state weigh stations will do this for you for free. I don't know.
One thing to consider if you extend the vehicle hitch is that you are giving the trailer more sway (pun intended) over the tow vehicle. Any movement of the trailer will have a greater influence on the tow vehicle, with a longer lever from the receiver hitch being extended. If you are well within the tow capacity of the vehicle, and you have a long wheelbase, you may be fine. But a short wheelbase vehicle will be affected more, especially if your trailer doesn't have brakes.
Extending the ball trailer hitch on the auto end seems like a good idea. I wouldn't tow it any distance that way but for launching it should work well. Especially if you only need a couple of feet. It would be easy to switch out in the parking lot. If you have a receiver that has clearance it could even be retracted under the car/truck.
Timo42 has a nice set up on his Mac 22. The hitch is on a telescoping bar and extends out about 6 ft. He has a spring loaded (bungee) pin that drops into place as he pulls his truck forward. This allows him to do it solo without having to guess when the holes are lined up. At the end of the day he backs up and pins the square tube in the same manner.
Timo42 has a nice set up on his Mac 22. The hitch is on a telescoping bar and extends out about 6 ft. He has a spring loaded (bungee) pin that drops into place as he pulls his truck forward. This allows him to do it solo without having to guess when the holes are lined up. At the end of the day he backs up and pins the square tube in the same manner.
I tried going to a weigh station for Semi tractor trailers and they couldn't weigh the trailer that I have. I ended up going to a coal/building materials/feed store with a scale. It was without the boat. My trailer is about 900 lbs and it's very basic. The total w/boat is about 3500lbs. That is without outboard/fuel and any water in the tanks.
Gregg, I can tell you from experience, you better stay off of North Carolina's scales. Yeah, they'll weigh it, then inspect everything you own, and then read you the riot act for pulling up there anyway. Take it to about any truck stop, and you can get an axle weight. First though, you need to know how much you weigh on the axle to begin with, without trailer..
Oh yeah, it's usually about 5 bucks..
(Moving 100+ ton cranes will net you a lot of experience with peoples scales).
Oh yeah, it's usually about 5 bucks..
(Moving 100+ ton cranes will net you a lot of experience with peoples scales).
On tongue weight, I told you fellows that extending the trailer tongue 18 inches lessened the hitch weight by 30 lbs, and that 30 pound loss made a difference in towing. What it did was allow the tongue to bounce up and down and this bounce was transferred to the vehicle which was not light, a 6200 lb conversion van. The 30 lbs was from 311 to 282 pounds.
I’ve had two previous situations with a light weight tongue when towing. I once had 3 canoes on a utility trailer in which the 3 canoes were hanging out over the back because of a short tongue. The trailer started to sway back and forth so bad that each tire would lift a foot off the payment at the end of the sweep. The second time with an un-weighed tongue, I was forced off the payment by on coming vehicles and the utility trailer tire dropped into a large chuck hole, the trailer bounced so bad that it broke the tongue in half.
So, when someone tells me that they can move the tongue around with one hand it sends shivers down my spine!
I’ve had two previous situations with a light weight tongue when towing. I once had 3 canoes on a utility trailer in which the 3 canoes were hanging out over the back because of a short tongue. The trailer started to sway back and forth so bad that each tire would lift a foot off the payment at the end of the sweep. The second time with an un-weighed tongue, I was forced off the payment by on coming vehicles and the utility trailer tire dropped into a large chuck hole, the trailer bounced so bad that it broke the tongue in half.
So, when someone tells me that they can move the tongue around with one hand it sends shivers down my spine!
I appreciate all the great responses I am getting to this... it eases my mind alot and gives me alot to keep in mind when using one. I will only be backing the trailer down the ramp and driving it out with the extension so minimal distances covered (and hopefully level ramps) is the norm.
I have no intentions on weighing my boat at a DMV weight station, let's just say I try to "avoid any imperial entanglements". LOL All my stuff is in order so I'm not worried about that and I'm not transporting drugs, weapons or contraband so they can keep the dogs on the leash.
The only time I've launched, the ramp looked good! Water level ok, just didn't have the distance needed to float her, I had to push her off the bunks and everything I've read said "FLOAT" it off.
I have no intentions on weighing my boat at a DMV weight station, let's just say I try to "avoid any imperial entanglements". LOL All my stuff is in order so I'm not worried about that and I'm not transporting drugs, weapons or contraband so they can keep the dogs on the leash.
The only time I've launched, the ramp looked good! Water level ok, just didn't have the distance needed to float her, I had to push her off the bunks and everything I've read said "FLOAT" it off.
Just to add a little wrinkle to things, I have another type of trailer extension. A few years ago I acquired a 24 full keel boat on a trailer. No identification plates on the boat, but I think its a Peirson. The trailer is a tandem axle and cam with a 16 foot dolly. It has a hitch ball mounted above a pair of wheels and a hitch on the other end of the bar. i haven't finished the restoration yet, so I haven't used it in the water. It was handy for turning the rig around in the tight spot it was parked in where I bought it.
long response, My trials.
O.K. Boy did you open the can of worms.
I bought my C22 then went home and modified a bass boat trailer after a 2 minute look at a factory trail-rite.
Here is what I know.
First off you should know the angle of your ramp, and how much hard surface you have to work with underwater.
Most of the ramps I use are in the neighborhood of 15 degrees of angle.
At 15 degrees you need 1 foot of ramp length for each inch of height from ground to boat waterline at the axle location. Mine is 36 inches ground to waterline.
So, I need a total of 36 feet of hard surface ramp from the the water's edge to where My boat will float off the trailer.
It is 18 feet from the ball hitch on my trailer to the axle, That tells Me I need to have an additional length of 18 feet.
So I started off with the boat on a rope method.
Back the trailer to the water's edge, block the tires, disconnect the trailer, lower the tongue jack(with wheel) so the boat is almost level. Connect your strap,chain, rope or your handy item to the tongue and the hitch. Pull forward to release the tires from the blocks, remove the blocks and back the trailer in until the boat is floating between the bunks. Move the boat to the dock if there is one otherwise pitch the anchor. Pull the trailer up the ramp to level ground slowly and reconnect to tow vehicle.
Basically the same to retrieve.
This Method is a lot of work.
Next I built an extension dolly, it has 2 tires and a ball at one end of a 20 foot section of square tubing and a hitch on the other. This thing is just as much trouble as the boat on a rope method since you have to disconnect the trailer, mine is 2 sections of ten foot tubing that pin together and pin to the wheel and ball section. It works good because you can steer the trailer down the ramp much better than the rope and jack combo. It is a pain to haul unless you can put it in your long bed pickup, otherwise you have to strap it to the trailer or your roof.
I hope that explains it. Now My big problem is I tow with a diesel dually 5 speed that is geared high, so pulling out is either slip the clutch or really moving up the ramp. I also do not want the tires to even get wet, because once they start slipping there is no way it's pulling itself up the hill since the truck alone weighs 7400 lbs. I have changed to a more aggressive tread pattern so this may not be so much of a problem.
I suppose the ramps at the lakes I go to just are not designed for sailboats.
O.K. So how much does the boat weigh? Well my boat on the trailer with O/B, 6 gals gas, ten lifejackets, ten gallons of water, honda genny(46 lbs.), 20 lbs. food, battery, clothes, bedding, and toolkit weighs 3860 pounds. My trailer probably weighs 1000 pounds since I beefed it up for strength and stability.
3520 of this is on the trailer axle and 340 on the truck.
I think the best way to help with the launching problem is to get the boat lower on the trailer, which will reduce the length of extension needed, and help it tow better.
I am not much of a writer so this may be hard to understand, but it is what I know to be true. I hope it helps you guys without having to do all the experimenting.
P.M. Me if you want more info and will be glad to discuss it over the phone.
O.K. Boy did you open the can of worms.
I bought my C22 then went home and modified a bass boat trailer after a 2 minute look at a factory trail-rite.
Here is what I know.
First off you should know the angle of your ramp, and how much hard surface you have to work with underwater.
Most of the ramps I use are in the neighborhood of 15 degrees of angle.
At 15 degrees you need 1 foot of ramp length for each inch of height from ground to boat waterline at the axle location. Mine is 36 inches ground to waterline.
So, I need a total of 36 feet of hard surface ramp from the the water's edge to where My boat will float off the trailer.
It is 18 feet from the ball hitch on my trailer to the axle, That tells Me I need to have an additional length of 18 feet.
So I started off with the boat on a rope method.
Back the trailer to the water's edge, block the tires, disconnect the trailer, lower the tongue jack(with wheel) so the boat is almost level. Connect your strap,chain, rope or your handy item to the tongue and the hitch. Pull forward to release the tires from the blocks, remove the blocks and back the trailer in until the boat is floating between the bunks. Move the boat to the dock if there is one otherwise pitch the anchor. Pull the trailer up the ramp to level ground slowly and reconnect to tow vehicle.
Basically the same to retrieve.
This Method is a lot of work.
Next I built an extension dolly, it has 2 tires and a ball at one end of a 20 foot section of square tubing and a hitch on the other. This thing is just as much trouble as the boat on a rope method since you have to disconnect the trailer, mine is 2 sections of ten foot tubing that pin together and pin to the wheel and ball section. It works good because you can steer the trailer down the ramp much better than the rope and jack combo. It is a pain to haul unless you can put it in your long bed pickup, otherwise you have to strap it to the trailer or your roof.
I hope that explains it. Now My big problem is I tow with a diesel dually 5 speed that is geared high, so pulling out is either slip the clutch or really moving up the ramp. I also do not want the tires to even get wet, because once they start slipping there is no way it's pulling itself up the hill since the truck alone weighs 7400 lbs. I have changed to a more aggressive tread pattern so this may not be so much of a problem.
I suppose the ramps at the lakes I go to just are not designed for sailboats.
O.K. So how much does the boat weigh? Well my boat on the trailer with O/B, 6 gals gas, ten lifejackets, ten gallons of water, honda genny(46 lbs.), 20 lbs. food, battery, clothes, bedding, and toolkit weighs 3860 pounds. My trailer probably weighs 1000 pounds since I beefed it up for strength and stability.
3520 of this is on the trailer axle and 340 on the truck.
I think the best way to help with the launching problem is to get the boat lower on the trailer, which will reduce the length of extension needed, and help it tow better.
I am not much of a writer so this may be hard to understand, but it is what I know to be true. I hope it helps you guys without having to do all the experimenting.
P.M. Me if you want more info and will be glad to discuss it over the phone.
I want what txtowman put together. A 10 foot extenstion to my trailer tongue with two wheels under the ball and a hitch on the other end. I've not found any online but think I can weld or bolt one up for myself and another one to donate to my sailing club. Any input on finding wheels, axle online??
I've looked at the boat/trailer height and I cannot lower it anymore as you can see from the pics attached.
Dude! The information you provided is detailed! You're much smarter than I am to come up with those end results. I appreciate you sharing it.
Dude! The information you provided is detailed! You're much smarter than I am to come up with those end results. I appreciate you sharing it.
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The pic I posted in a previous response to Greg Burbo's post shows one that was used up at Lake Norman to launch the Vinny II. I have emailed the owner of Vinny II to see if it was provided by the marina or if it was his personal extension but get no reply.
I would like to remark on this paragraph without sounding like I'm disagreeing. I am not at all.
There is a post somewhere on the internet (One of the C22 Assoc. pages) that lists boat weights at a C22 regatta. "boat weights taken before the 1996 Nationals at the Fort Worth Boat Club. All boats were weighed with class sails, whisker pole, motor, hatch boards, 10 cushions, finger hatch covers, dining table and battery. All other extra items were removed for the weighing."
www.catalina22.org/documents/files_excel/C22_1996weights.xls
67 boats were weighed and there is a considerable difference in weight from one to another. One comment about a "top weighted" boat of over 2500 lbs suggested that the boat weighed a few hundred ponds more than typical because of the water in the fiberglass matting (not inside the hull but inside the matting) since it was kept on the water.
I believe that the weight difference was between about 3 boats in the 2130 lbs range and 6 of the 67 boats were slightly above 2500 lbs.
I don't trailer the extras in or on my boat. That includes the outboard. extra water in the tanks, removable fuel tank, generator or food. I don't think that my single axle should be put to that test. I would feel safer with a dual axle setup but then I'd probably have to upgrade my tow vehicle. I only tow to the lake and back once per year which is about 33 miles on relatively flat country roads where I can average about 45 mph max.
I ran a 2700 pound axle for 3 years with similar weights. With no issues.
I updated after finding water in one spindle. I was unable to find buddy bearings so I installed a 3500 pound axle.
I updated after finding water in one spindle. I was unable to find buddy bearings so I installed a 3500 pound axle.
Diamondjet, I would think that 8 to 10 inch tires like on a hand truck dolly would be more than enough to carry your tongue weight of 350 lbs. Because you’re only pulling it around in the parking lot or launch ramp, then a solid rod axle without bearings would work. Light duty tubing would work for the extension, you're not going to pull this down the highway at 65.
Don’t over think this, think light, collapsable, easy to lift and store.
I’d say you could find everything you would need at a Tractor Supply Company.
Don’t over think this, think light, collapsable, easy to lift and store.
I’d say you could find everything you would need at a Tractor Supply Company.
Capt Gregg- Those spring extenders look a little scary. They could be shortened or eliminated by clamping the springs over the axle rather than under it. Both methods are approved but the axle should have a steel pad welded to the upper surface. A "V" saddle axle (see pic in my previous post) would provide more clearance between axle and keel.
Thank you for noticing that jfrench, I was wondering how I could get the spring extenders away from the ground without going to a bigger tire which would just introduce all new problems. In that picture, does the axle look bent down on both ends to you? It looked that way to me, I have not gone out and parked it on the road yet and measured it on both ends and the middle, maybe an optical illusion.
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