trailer tiller boat chart plotter possible option..

[walt]

I have a Lowrance 4 inch GPS fishfinder mounted in the companionway of my Mac 26S and it works fine for boat speed and water depth if I make the numerical display as large as possible. I dont know if its just the product I have but I just cant see that instrument well enough to use it for navigation. Im too far away and if its bright sun.. I can pretty much only make out the large speed and depth numbers.

What I have been doing recently for more detailed navigation (like for California coastal road trips) and it mostly works is using an Ipad with Navionics out in the cockpit. I installed a 12 volt socket just inside the companionway opening that I plug a USB power source into for the Ipad. I have a fairly long USB power cord so I can sit in the cockpit holding the Ipad right under my nose. Nice big screen and close is great for seeing detail. The down side of this is that the Ipad is not weather proof and its also not a very bright display and often hard to see.

So.. it occurred to me that I could replace the Ipad with a 5 to 7 inch screen chart plotter but just use the chart plotter the same way I use the Ipad - on a cable so that I could hold the chart plotter right under my nose and move it around with me. I would not hook up a depth transducer to it, only 12V power. 99% of my sailing is on a lake that I am very familiar with so I would keep the existing GPS depth finder instrument where it is and that is where I would still get depth readings (the existing instrument is low power - draws less than 3 watts).

It also occurred to me that it would be nice if I could use this new chart plotter that is sitting in my lap as a remote control for my Raymarine ST2000 auto pilot. Im not really interested in automatically following way points but it would be nice to just have the remote control function somehow controllable from the chart plotter - rather than having to move back to the auto pilot to manually push the buttons.. If I could use the new chart plotter as a remote for the auto pilot, the cord to the chart plotter would have the 12 volt plug and also a second plug for the serial com interface to the auto pilot.

For this new chart plotter, I would need a way to hang it on either side of the companionway or just set it down on the seat area.. Back at the lake I normally sail on, the chart plotter would be stored back in the box.. not needed and not used.

Anyhow.. just thinking about this..

 

[Sumner]

I moved ours to the lifeline some years back and have been extremely happy with it there after different trips. You can slide it back to where the person on the tiller is seated or forward if the person handling the sails is seated. More info on that mod here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-navigation/Cuda 350.html

The one above has GPS and sends position to the AIS radio. I've since bought a ...

... Standard Horizon CPN700i and I'm setting it up so that I can fairly quickly move it to either the Mac or the Endeavour. I'll use it on the Mac again on the lifeline, at the helm on the Endeavour. It can control the autopilot on either boat.

I've used OpenCPN on a computer as my chart plotter on the Mac for some time with the screen in the companionway. It is a large screen but as you mentioned it would still be better to have it nearer to the tiller. OpenCPN is free and so are the NOAA charts and it will run NV charts if one goes to the Bahamas (you buy these but are reasonable). One reason I went with the CPN700i is that it comes with Bahama charts and also charts for the Sea of Cortez (a possible destination). I've recently found out that it runs on the $35 Rasberry Pi computer that only draws about 10 watts. I'm going to set up one of those to use instead of running it on the computer. I still like a lot of features OpenCPN has and will use it for most trip planning and will send waypoints to the Standard Horizon via the serial ports.

Sumner
================================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[Meriachee]

Sumner, how heavy is that instrument? That support looks like it could be contracted out as a concrete jenny for a tower crane.

 

[walt]

It can control the autopilot on either boat.

Sumner, do you know if the control is to automatically follow way points (which I dont have any interest in) or does it have some sort screen or interface that looks like the buttons on the tiller pilot?

I like the auto pilot because instead of moment to moment adjustments to the tiller, you can make an adjustment every 5 or 10 minutes with the TP. The Ipad with Navionics draws a line on the screen showing me where Im heading. I would make small adjustments to the auto pilot (by going back there and pushing buttons) so that I was heading to some location I could see on the Ipad but it would have been real nice to have just done that right at the instrument I already had in my hands. FYI, I use this for sailing also which means you can be on either side of the boat.

I may just stick with the Ipad as I usually have the shade of the bimini when I use it. But I was sort of thinking about this Garmin https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/577146#specs Part of the reason is the fairly low power of 6.2 watts and probably even lower than that if no depth transducer hooked up.

 

[justsomeguy]

Sumner, how heavy is that instrument? That support looks like it could be contracted out as a concrete jenny for a tower crane.

"If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing."

 

[Sumner]

Sumner, do you know if the control is to automatically follow way points (which I dont have any interest in) or does it have some sort screen or interface that looks like the buttons on the tiller pilot?.....

No screen or interface that looks like the buttons on the tiller pilot. It will follow the way points. Up to this point I've used the tillerpilot on the Mac like you do and probably won't change. I would like the advantage of the chart plotter handling the steerage for longer passages with the Endeavour in the future though. So I will do what you have been doing and I've been doing most of the time with both boats but use the auto function at times with the Endeavour.

I just found this using a search....

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/in...ss-remote-control-for-st1000st2000-autopilot/

and

http://www.ebay.com/itm/231446221834

... sounds like there might also be a factory remote.

I have an electric ram that can mount where the tiller-pilot attaches on the Mac and .....

... I can control it with a remote key-fob from the bow or anyplace else on the boat. I came up with it to help in anchoring alone. It steers the trolling motor and turns it off and on when the motor is in forward. I need to work on it as it doesn't currently move the tiller enough to be effective . Now that I'm not alone on the boat it doesn't have a high priority,

Sumner
=============================================================
1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas

 

[walt]

Sumner, thanks for checking on that function. It looks like I will just stick with the Ipad out in the cockpit for now and I made some setting changes that hopefully will improve things. The Ipad has an auto brightness feature and I just set brightness to max. Another annoying thing that would happen is that the screen would rotate when I set it down.. turned that off. I set the auto timeout for a longer time. The Ipad also has its own separate battery which is good. After hearing a story about someone in a small boat heading to Catalina Island when fog came in, Im also going to make sure I have multiple GPS instruments on board with at least a minimal visual map screen.

I would still like to have a tiller pilot remote.. Not a even a small priority at the moment however and that will be a separate issue from the chart plotter.

 

[Sumner]

.... After hearing a story about someone in a small boat heading to Catalina Island when fog came in, Im also going to make sure I have multiple GPS instruments on board with at least a minimal visual map screen..

For about $100 you can get a used older Garmin map 76, a usb gps dongle, a usb to serial converter and a serial cable. Load the free OpenCPN and NOAA charts onto your laptop.

Chart your course/waypoints with OpenCPN and download them to the Garmin 76 via the serial cable. Follow the waypoints if needed in the fog or if you are out in the dark. Takes but a minute. If you want to update/change the course just redo it in OpenCPN and send it to the Garmin.

I've gone everywhere this way with the Garmin in the cockpit hooked to the computer below. You can turn the computer off if needed to save electricity once the Garmin has the waypoints.

I've navigated some complicated tracks easily with this method. I've bough the SH CPN700i to use but will still probably send the initial waypoints to it from the computer and will have the computer and Garmin as backup. Actually a couple computers and Garmins as backup,
Sumner
==================================================

 

[walt]

Follow up on this.. The Ipad I have is now a few years old and uses the Bad Elf GPS for location. I made a "holder" for it (retired guy has too much time for this stuff) as the bad elf radio would unplug. I can hold the Ipad in my lap with a power cord going to a 12 volt socket inside the cabin, clip it to either side of the companionway and it also has a spot inside the cabin as I sometimes use it for email and internet with a cell phone hot spot.

Seems a lot of people are happy with a chart plotter mounted in the companionway so maybe its just the one I have (Lowrance Elite 4) that I cant see very well but I did a brightness comparison of the Ipad with the Lowrance. Both have the brightness turned up to max setting. The Ipad looked to be as good for brightness and way better for viewing angle. In the last picture, the Lowrance "colors" are changed at the high viewing angle. At least for the moment.. the Ipad backed up by the Lowrance and a hand held Garmin GPS with map display will be what I use. This is mostly for navigating to find harbors, channels, breakwater openings or marinas this summer. Somewhat interesting.. cranking the Ipad brightness all the way up increased the current use in the range of 0.2 amps (I dont have good resolution for measuring more accurate than this).

I guess if I do anything now it will be to just replace the Lowrance with a newer model - probably Garmin with a slightly larger screen.

 

[walt]

Well.. I ended up ordering this
Garmin echoMAP CHIRP 73dv with Transducer https://www.thegpsstore.com/Garmin-...r-P4643.aspx?gclid=CKLu08jVldQCFciCswodSmIJMA

I will end up paying about $40 for the US West coast detail after the rebate offer. These add on software packages have some extra info that will be somewhat fun to play with and possibly useful for finding marina's and guest slips..
https://www.thegpsstore.com/Garmin-...ncouver-to-San-Diego-Chart-VUS037R-P2122.aspx

I will keep the small Lowrance on the Ram mount in the companionway as that is all I usually need for the lake I slip the boat. I dont know if there are any more ideas anyone has on a place to mount a chart plotter like this on a tiller boat (Sumner, thanks for the suggestion on the life line but that wont work for me). Im probably not going for a companionway mount (instrument is too wide) and Im somewhat tired of the Ram mount. I plan to just mount the instrument bracket to a flat plate so that it can sit on the cockpit seat and be moved to either side or I can hold it. The Garmin will have a cable set that will plug in just inside the companionway. Cable will be long enough so that I can sail the boat with the instrument in my lap. I plan to run the data lines back to the auto pilot.. may not use that much but it will provide a little bit of entertainment sometime.

This Garmin is fairly low power at between 6 and 7 watts and actually a little lower power than the Ipad with the bad elf. Most other chart plotters in the 5 to 7 inch size are usually in the 10 to 11 watt range.

 

[RussC]

Flush mount kit?
You'll love the Garmin Lakevu maps. we use a Garmin 43dv that has the same maps and they are excellent!

 

[walt]

More progress..

As mentioned, this Garmin 73dv is mounted to a flat plate (cutting board material) so that it is free standing and can be moved to either side of the cockpit. The two wires (power plus data and sonar) are bundled with a tether that both takes any strain off the wires and also keeps the instrument from going overboard. The wire/tether bundle is going to be about 4 or 5 foot long and will connect just inside the companionway. When the instrument is not being used, I will probably make a hanger for it just inside the companionway.

I did some comparisons between the Garmin and the Ipad..

When the Ipad is first connected to 12 volts and its not fully charged, the current is a little higher (about .65 amps for 60% charged) but when the battery is fully charged, the Ipad/ bad elf current goes down to in the .39 to .40 amp range for 12.7 volts. This is with the Ipad display as bright as possible. When the Ipad is turned off with a fully charged battery but still connected to the 12 volt supply, it is still drawing .039 amps. About .012 amps of this is due to the 12 volt to USB converter.

The Garmin without the depth transducer hooked up and max brightness draws .367 amps @ 12.7 volts. With the depth transducer hooked up, the current readout bounces around somewhat due to current spikes from the transducer but it looks like an average of about .4 amps. Not bad at all, that is just a hair over 5 watts. When the Garmin is turned off, it draws pretty much zero current (at least less than 1 ma).

The bottom picture shows the Ipad at the bottom and the Garmin at the top panned to a west coast marina. The Ipad just has the standard Navionics, the Garmin has the special west coast package and the detail is about the same.

Also, the brightness of each instrument on max brightness setting is not that much different. which is little surprising.

Both instruments will be in the boat.. Ipad will be the backup as I have to also run that little Lowrance (another about .18 amps) if I want depth plus the Ipad is not at all waterproof. On the other hand, if you like to enter way points, the Ipad and the touch screen makes this super easy.

FYI, current is measured with an Agilent E3616A power supply.

 

[walt]

Follow up on this chart plotter with movable location experiment..

Used this on a trip recently and functionally, the movable location worked well. I was hoping to find one spot where I could permanently mount the chart plotter but ended up liking several different spots depending on what I was doing. I had it in one spot for sailing where I was mostly watching GPS speed and way point lines and different spots for motoring to find a slip in a marina I had never been to previously. I could always place it for really great visibility. The rope tether with the wire run kept all strain off the wires or connectors. Cosmetically.. all the wires look sloppy. Overall.. I like it way better than what I had. However, part of that is because the Garmin screen just seems to be view-able at a larger angle than my old chart plotter.

The depth transducer that comes with this chart plotter has instruction only for mounting directly in the water. However, I just didnt want that setup for a variety or reasons and mounted it shooting through the hull near the back of the boat (water ballast boat but its behind the tank and its not a cored hull). I used silicon to mount the transducer on the inside hull surface. This seemed to work fine. When sailing without the motor running, the depth reading worked down to over 600 ft. With the outboard running, the depth measurement crapped out somewhere between 100 to 200 ft and I didnt spend the time to be more accurate but think it worked to about 150 ft or so.

picture below - where the CP is stored and where it will spend most of the time at the local lake where I will just use the smaller CP on the ram mount on the right side of the picture.

picture below depth reading was fairly accurate until about 640 foot while sailing. Past that, it lost track. Depth transducer is "shoot through the hull" (however no mention of shoot through the hull use in the manual) glued in with adhesive Silicon calc. For this mounting spot, I just clipped the CP to some eyestraps that were already on the boat when I purchased it years ago and will clean this up somewhat when I get back to the boat this fall.

pictures below. the CP is fairly easily removed from the boat.

 

[vizwhiz]

Right now i just use my little Garmin hand-held 76SC and a humminbird depth finder. I don't have extremely deep or treacherous waters to deal with like you do, though. The way we figure out where to go is more like "that looks interesting!"

 

[JimInPB]

This is a mount that I made to attach a small chart plotter to any 1" diameter rail. I use it with a small Garmin unit that I bring along when I do deliveries or operate poorly equipped mark boats. I use a cigarette lighter plug for a power source.

This little white plastic mount is made out of 3/4" Star Board. It attaches to the rail with 4 thumb screws. I can provide mechanical drawings if you would like them.