trailer Brakes
- Thread starter little breeze
- Start date
No.
Just an idea to understand what the specs might be on the ones you have in mind.
Surge breaks work well when stopping while going forward, are there surge breaks that work backing down a ramp?
-Will (Dragonfly)
The principle of surge brake operation says that the brakes will apply whenever the trailer “pushes” against the truck while in motion. The reverse side effect of this is that in reverse, the truck can “push” against the trailer also causing the brakes to apply.
I towed a tandem trailer with a 21 foot water ski boat trailer with surge brakes for 20+ years up down mountains and in/out of the water without a braking issue.
I was thinking in terms of arresting motion if backing too fast while descending the ramp with a loaded trailer. The vehicle applies brakes, the trailer pulls on the tongue, the load strains the vehicle brakes. If the surge breaks can work in both cases, pushing or pulling, it can go a long way to relieving wear on the vehicle brakes alone.
I don't really know what is availible. Just curious.
-Will (Dragonfly)
I would agree that surge brakes are a good choice for a boat trailer. Relative to electric they are simple mechanical devices that can be immersed without much issue.
In forward direction when the tow vehicle slows rapidly enough the trailer “surges” against the towball and the trailer brakes are applied. When the surge is over the trailer brakes release.
Backing up is a little more complicated. If you are on level ground the tow vehicle pushes backward and the “surge” activates the trailer brakes.
If you are backing down an incline where the tongue is “hanging” onto the ball the trailer brakes are not activated as there isn’t a “surge”
All of the surge brake trailers I’ve owned have a pin you insert into the trailer tongue to disable the brake or you can’t back up. The pin should also be inserted if your towing an empty trailer as the trailer can bounce and inadvertently apply the trailer brakes.
In forward direction when the tow vehicle slows rapidly enough the trailer “surges” against the towball and the trailer brakes are applied. When the surge is over the trailer brakes release.
Backing up is a little more complicated. If you are on level ground the tow vehicle pushes backward and the “surge” activates the trailer brakes.
If you are backing down an incline where the tongue is “hanging” onto the ball the trailer brakes are not activated as there isn’t a “surge”
All of the surge brake trailers I’ve owned have a pin you insert into the trailer tongue to disable the brake or you can’t back up. The pin should also be inserted if your towing an empty trailer as the trailer can bounce and inadvertently apply the trailer brakes.
Hey Will,
The situation with surge brakes when backing up is a bit complicated. The surge master cylinder tries to activate the brakes whenever you push backward on the tongue. If you have drum brakes that doesn't do anything because there's lash in the brake mechanism and a self-actuating linkage on the shoes that only works going forward. (Although, at some point, if you push back on the tongue hard enough, I guess it would activate the brakes anyway.) If you have disc brakes you have to install a valve that locks out the trailer brakes when you back up. Otherwise, because disc brakes have so little lash, the brakes will activate almost immediately and lock up the trailer wheels. Either way, you can't use the trailer brakes to help you stop while going backward.
I put disc brakes on my Mac 26S trailer last year and I love them. They perform better than the drums, are easier to maintain, and, because they're stainless steel, I expect rust issues to be less. My old drums became a mess when I injured myself (non sailing related) right after a salt water trip and didn't get around to properly rinsing them with fresh water. I installed a solenoid valve that's connected to the tow vehicle's backup lights, so the brakes are de-activated as soon as I shift into reverse.
Ditto Hunter216..................The link below provides additional explanation on how surge brakes perform. Surge brakes remove safety hazards in the water that electric brakes have Word of caution, disconnect your electric light connection to avoid light failure when backing down / going forward on a boat ramp. I have backed my tandem trailer with surge brakes / heavy ski boat down some really steep and long ramps when the lake water level was at its lowest level during a drought without any loss in braking control.
trailervalet.com
What are Surge Brakes?
Also known as Hydraulic Surge Brakes, surge brakes are extremely common in trailers. Learn why they are the most popular form of trailer brake here.
trailervalet.com
I definitely wouldn't choose electric brakes (or any kind of drum brakes) for dunking in salt.
Surge/disc work well for us. Ours have not needed any servicing (other than one fluid change) in five years.
Just rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.
Surge/disc work well for us. Ours have not needed any servicing (other than one fluid change) in five years.
Just rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.
We have old and very poor drum surge brakes, which have finally failed. I'm currently in the process of installing disc brakes (some of the hardware is sitting next to my computer as I write this). So take my untested advice on discs with a very large brick of salt...
Regarding backing up with disc brakes: Some disc brake actuators (e.g. Demco 8605101) have an electric lockout, that activates via the reverse-light circuit, disabling the brakes while backing up (so you don't lock up the brakes as described above). The reverse-light line is available on a 7-wire trailer wiring connector, but not on the 4-pin. Some people put a 5-pin connector on the trailer (you can get a 7-to-5 adapter just like the standard 7-to-4's, but adding the reverse-light line).
That all sounds great, but when backing the trailer into the water, we generally disconnect the wiring. So (I think) the brakes would tend to lock up on the prep area (probably not on the ramp itself, as the boat is pulling backward on the surge brake actuator). I asked eTrailer.com if any of the actuators with electric lockout also has a manual lockout that I could use on the ramp. They said they didn't know of any that offered both. So I'm planning to add this valve ($12 @McMaster-Carr, rated for high pressure, so appropriate for brakes). Maybe someone more educated than me will tell my why this is a terrible idea...
Note that the disconnect you might use with an extendable trailer tongue would also accomplish the same thing (they disconnect the hydraulic line when extending the tongue).
Regarding backing up with disc brakes: Some disc brake actuators (e.g. Demco 8605101) have an electric lockout, that activates via the reverse-light circuit, disabling the brakes while backing up (so you don't lock up the brakes as described above). The reverse-light line is available on a 7-wire trailer wiring connector, but not on the 4-pin. Some people put a 5-pin connector on the trailer (you can get a 7-to-5 adapter just like the standard 7-to-4's, but adding the reverse-light line).
That all sounds great, but when backing the trailer into the water, we generally disconnect the wiring. So (I think) the brakes would tend to lock up on the prep area (probably not on the ramp itself, as the boat is pulling backward on the surge brake actuator). I asked eTrailer.com if any of the actuators with electric lockout also has a manual lockout that I could use on the ramp. They said they didn't know of any that offered both. So I'm planning to add this valve ($12 @McMaster-Carr, rated for high pressure, so appropriate for brakes). Maybe someone more educated than me will tell my why this is a terrible idea...
Note that the disconnect you might use with an extendable trailer tongue would also accomplish the same thing (they disconnect the hydraulic line when extending the tongue).
My 2 cents for what it’s worth.
Although the electric lockout feature sounds good and I’ve had trailers with that feature I didn’t actually find it necessary.
My practice of backing up a trailer is to get out and do a walk around to check things, remove tie downs, warn people I don’t know what I’m doing
etc while I’m doing that I put the manual override in place and disconnect the electrical before I back into the water.Always a safe practice to get out and walk around before you backup.
Thanks - that's a really good point. I probably should have said that I expect I'd use / appreciate the electric lockout mostly when parking the trailer or backing down my own driveway. On the ramp, there's plenty of other stuff to do, and saving a few seconds disconnecting is the least of my worries.My 2 cents for what it’s worth.
Although the electric lockout feature sounds good and I’ve had trailers with that feature I didn’t actually find it necessary.
My practice of backing up a trailer is to get out and do a walk around to check things, remove tie downs, warn people I don’t know what I’m doing
Always a safe practice to get out and walk around before you backup.
Regarding lockout on the ramp, etc., here's what I do. The spot I park the boat in at home is tight and access is down a fairly long, narrow lane, so I have a front-mounted hitch. I put a connector on a small, sealed, 12-volt battery for locking out the brakes when I use the front hitch. But, since my lane is level or slightly downhill everywhere, it turns out I don't need it. I carry that battery with me to the boat launch in case I have a problem after the trailer plug is disconnected for launching but, so far, I've never needed it there, either.
little breeze, I would say it would depend on how often you expect to dunk the trailer in salt water. If it would only be afew times a year, and a fresh water rinse off hose is available, it wouldn't be any harder on electric brakes than hydraulics. The water gets into the drums on both systems. I see you have a 22' Catalina, which probably didn't even have brakes on its original trailer, and assume you just want alittle more stopping power to help out your tow vehicle. I tow a MacGregor 25 on a trailer that I added a second axle, with electric brakes. The brake units for the axle are relatively inexpensive, and the only extra component you need is the electric brake controller for the tow vehicle ( no running brake lines, mounting the surge master cylinder). I usually only have the trailer in the water twice a year ( boat stays in the water), and its brackish water. The trailer has been in salt water (Florida) afew times, and rinsed off right away. The axles and brakes are 10 years old and still function fine. It's mostly how well you maintain your equipment. The most important thing is to get your boat in the water and sail!!!
Thank you, thecuscus , most of my sailing will be fresh water and once in a while down to the gulf . I think economically electric brakes is a cheaper answer for the amount I will be dipping it in salt. Im all set up in the truck with a brake controller and ready to go but it is nice to hear other opinions. yes sailing is the prority...good point...Don