Traditional Stuffing or Dripless?

[Blitz]

In Mainesails article he was recommending a performance non-graphite packing called SynBraid® since it was is a 100% galvanically inert synthetic packing, not a “PTFE infused” product with acrylic or flax yarns making up the braid. The SynBraid® yarns are actually extruded with the proprietary lubricant in the yarn not “infused” after the yarns are extruded.

Does anyone know where this product or equivalent is since I expected it to be on the market 2018.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

In Mainesails article he was recommending a performance non-graphite packing called SynBraid® since it was is a 100% galvanically inert synthetic packing, not a “PTFE infused” product with acrylic or flax yarns making up the braid. The SynBraid® yarns are actually extruded with the proprietary lubricant in the yarn not “infused” after the yarns are extruded.

Does anyone know where this product or equivalent is since I expected it to be on the market 2018.

Gore GFO. He also mentions a couple of others in the article

 

[Blitz]

Gore GFO. He also mentions a couple of others in the article

Gore GFO, Duramax Ultra-x and GTU still all contains graphite and blended with PTFE. The idea to meet ABYC was to avoid graphite since it is high on the galvanic scale.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

For all the reading I have done on GFO, I still don't understand GORE GFO packing. Or for that matter, most marine packing products out there. They read like soap commercials. They're supposedly approved of by every self appointed group out there including God himself. But most of them contain graphite which, as we know, is disasterous to most shaft metals in salt water unless you have a shaft of Aqualloy 22 or better.

Even then, I STILL wouldn't trust a graphite bearing packing because not only is the shaft looking at possible galvanic corrosion, it's still fighting against crevice corrosion when not in use.

GORE alludes that GFO is made from 100% pure, unadulturated, virgin, GORE® GFO® Packing Fiber so buy some. C'mon, how can you go wrong ? But when you really get out there and dig, you find :

Gore® GFO Marine Shaft Packing

www.equalseal.com

Looks like GFO fiber is the same as every other graphite bearing packing out there.

I remember an article about packing which stated that "if it looks like graphite, it is graphite" and this stuff certainly looks like it contains a high % graphite:

GORE ads never mention the word "graphite" just their ultrapure, virgin GORE GFO packing fibre.

CAUTION : May contain graphite. Oh what the hell, truth be told, it's mostly graphite.

Looking at McMaster Carr's page on gland packing :

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

..................... requires caution, as roughly half the packing products listed contain graphite.

Graphite : Great stuff. Low coefficient of friction, relatively high thermal conductivity, can cause corrosion in salt water .

 

[Tally Ho]

I didn’t realize GFO was only a poor choice in SALT water…I switched to a more traditional flax packing when I replaced my shaft (which was Aqualloy 22 I think)… I was worried about ruining my new shaft. And the regular flax was so leaky, I decided to go with the Volvo dripless seal the next year. but I sail on the beautiful, salt-free, tide-free, shark-free waters of Lake Michigan, so I guess I could have stuck with the GFO packing!

Oh well, I really like the Volvo dripless….wouldnt want to go back.

Greg

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

I didn’t realize GFO was only a poor choice in SALT water…

Actually, I think you're running a risk anytime you cosy up graphite against metal in any type of water. Doing so in salt water is even more of a death wish.

I have no idea WHAT Hunter used for shaft material when I bought my boat new in 1998 but after 26 years in service, I couldn't ask for better service. Even after sitting motionless for 6 months of winter, there's no sign of crevice corrosion unde the packing :

​

I currently use teflon impregnated flax from Western Pacific Trading :

​

................. and have no curiosity about what would happen if I tried one of the many graphite impregnated packings floating around. No interest whatsoever.

BTW, I wonder about who came up with the bull idea that flax rots inside a packing gland. I've left mine for 6 - 7 years between replacement and found no evidence of rot. I'm pretty sure the teflon encapsulates each fibre of flax and insulates it against water and oxygen intrusion.

 

[Shorinsean]

I’m the lucky owner of a new-to-me Beneteau 311 that apparently had the dripless seal hose barb that goes into the shaft tube break, somehow, for a previous owner and then was jury-rigged with what might have been butyl tape (see dripless seal.jpg). Missed it in the survey. Aaaand, it came off while winterizing, so that was a fun time. I’ve temporarily sealed the shaft tube opening with butyl tape + a section of bicycle tire + hose clamp (4703). I’ve not used the boat with just the patch, but I need to get it fixed and trustworthy. From the 4703 photo (I’ve not cut it free of the hose yet) the barb appears to be broken off.

I’m planning to put her on the hard shortly to get this fixed, but I need to figure out that replacement barb part first? I've found info on replacing the seal, but not about that barb. My guess is this is a Volvo seal since it’s a Beneteau?

And when back in the water you must burb the seal? Of course the manual mentions nothing about any of this...

 

[Justin_NSA]

I've never seen a setup like that! Would almost make me want to go back to a packing gland!
Keep posting updates, I'm curious.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

That does look like a volvo which does need to be manually burped. Since bubbles travel up, I'm guessing they would either get caught in the gland or in the top of that hose. I'm guessing that this is not original to the boat

 

[BigEasy]

I’m the lucky owner of a new-to-me Beneteau 311 that apparently had the dripless seal hose barb that goes into the shaft tube break. I’m planning to put her on the hard shortly to get this fixed, but I need to figure out that replacement barb part first? I've found info on replacing the seal, but not about that barb. My guess is this is a Volvo seal since it’s a Beneteau?

.
That is most definitely a Volvo shaft seal. Unless you can verify that the previous owner replaced it, you should replace it when you haul out Cost is approximately $130 and relatively easy to replace (After the shaft coupling is removed). The shaft seal is reliable, inxpensive, & maintenance free. Doesn't leak at all. Only have to lubricate annually with Volvo grease & burp when splashing after a haul out.
The barbed fitting is another matter. There have been boats that have sunk because of lack of care of these fittings. The OEM fitting is a 1/8” nipple that has course
threads that enage the FRP shaft log. An epoxy fillet is placed around the nipple. The nipple should be removed & inspected on every haulout & replaced as necessary. I recommend cutting the hose from the fitting to facilitate removal of the nipple without disturbing the epoxy fillet or breaking the fitting off if it is severely corroded. Problem is that you can only order the bronze nipple from Benteau in Europe.. Other option is to build up the shaft log with fiberglass tape & tap for a new sized fitting. I replaced mine a few years ago with an OEM nipple obtained from a dealer in England. I wrap the nipple threads with teflon tape & seat with sealant; I and then unscrew it inspect on haul outs.

 

[BigEasy]

Photos of OEM Beneteau shaft seal cooling water nipple.

 

[Shorinsean]

Thank you for the detailed answer and photos! And it figures that I should run into the ONE below-water-level fitting that doesn't have a seacock :-/.

Now the challenge is to find an OEM barb with coarse threading (a quick search shows only fine threading). The alternative is digging my way into the Beneteau dealer network in hopes of finding a place that will order the part.

 

[PNWE36]

Hello Shorinsean,
If you look back at post #16 you will see a picture of this Volvo seal set up from my Beneteau 331. I was in Friday Harbour, Washington when I found the water fitting was about to snap off due to corrosion. I called a recommended marine repair shop and the owner came out on a Sunday to fix it. The fittings he used were purchased at ACE hardware. He managed to unscrew the old piece from the tube, probably with an ez-out. ACE didn't have the nipple as shown by BigEasy so he had to use an adapter and then a fitting with the hose barb. When I got home I purchased a spare fitting. I thought I got it at a hardware store but it might have been at the local Beneteau dealer. The fittings looked as good as new 3 years later when I sold the bought.
Hopefully you will have the same luck that I did and it will be an easy fix.

 

[jssailem]

I found the water fitting was about to snap off due to corrosion.

Just a heads up. This fitting will be exposed to water, which is a perfect setup for galvanic corrosion issues. ACE, while they may have a perfect fit, likely has the fitting made of brass. To reduce the possibility of corrosion, you need a bronze or fiber-filled nylon fitting.

 

[PNWE36]

Quite sure they were bronze but thanks for highlighting using bronze vs brass as that is important to remember especially for salt water.

 

[BigEasy]

Thank you for the detailed answer and photos! And it figures that I should run into the ONE below-water-level fitting that doesn't have a seacock :-/.
Now the challenge is to find an OEM barb with coarse threading (a quick search shows only fine threading). The alternative is digging my way into the Beneteau dealer network in hopes of finding a place that will order the part.

Surprised that it doesn't have a seacock, that must have been an addition on later models. Not sure how effective the seacock prevents water ingress because water can still access thru the stern tube/cutlass bearing.
Good luck with a search for a replacement nipple. Beneteau USA would not sell them, even when manufacturing in SC; their recommendation was to purchase from a local hardware store! That was total BS because you can't find that type of bronze fitting locally or on internet (when I spent hours searching 5 years ago). My guess is that they had some liability issues.
I purchased from Ancasta International Boat Sales in England. Beneteau part number is #460646. Contact is enquiries@ancasta.com.
If you go that route, tell them to throw away the fiberglass components from the kit to essentially cut shipping expenses drastically by eliminating hazardous / flammable contents from the package.
There was info on the internet that informed that you could buy a "home made" kit from Annapolis Yacht Sales, when they were a Beneteau dealer. I purchased their kit; however, it was useless. It was a brass fitting that was not the same diameter as the OEM fitting & the thickness of the walls were very thin. I didn't think that it was safe to use.
In retrospect, perhaps you could get a machine shop to fabricate 2 or 3 for a reasonable cost from a piece of bronze round stock. Surprised that some enterprising person hasn't done this & sell on Ebay!
If you research on on Sailboat Owners as well as an internet search, there's lots of info about this. I think that many owners fail to maintain this system/component & run into problems. Good luck & keep us apprised of your solution.

 

[Shorinsean]

Surprised that it doesn't have a seacock, that must have been an addition on later models. Not sure how effective the seacock prevents water ingress because water can still access thru the stern tube/cutlass bearing.

Precisely; I was winterizing the boat and closed the seacock for the water tube to the shaft seal, not realizing at the time (former stuffing box owner) that the other side with the barb was open to the water anyway. In the jiggling while trying to free the seacock side of the hose - not realizing that would have starting leaking - the barb pulled free or broke off.

I've contacted Ancasta to see what they have, yes will keep you posted.

 

[Hayden Watson]

I am not sure why anyone would want to connect the dripless breather nipple to a seacock. every type that I have seen say that for boats with a max speed of less than 10-kts under power only need to have the line vented with the open end at least 12" above the waterline. For boats that can motor over 10-nts, you need to inject water into the nipple. Neither of these requirements would be satisficed by having it connected to a seacock.

 

[Tally Ho]

And it seems to me that the nipple placed where it was, would not let most of the air out.

On my Volvo seal, I give it a little squeeze when I open my thru hull before taking the boat out. Not much air comes out.

Greg

 

[Shorinsean]

Ancasta replied to my inquiry, saying that they have a 6 week lead time on the part . The irony of an 8,000 lb vessel being waylaid by a 2-ounce part has not escaped me.

They directed me to a 14-year old groups.io post saying essentially what BigEasy said:

I called Beneteau, and within a week I had received a stern tube fitting repair kit (Part No. 460646; includes bronze fitting, two part epoxy, sandpaper and instructions) at no cost. Beneteau asked only that I send them the broken pieces.

...but steering me back to Beneteau. I've not yet tried to call a Beneteau dealer in the state (Texas); from reading around I gather that it's challenging getting parts in general from them?