Traditional or In-Mast or Boom Furler

centerline · Mar 6, 2016

I would steer clear of any in-mast or in-boom furling rigs.... they are expensive and not always dependable when you actually need them most... and that could mean not being able to shorten sail when a blow pipes up.....both the in-mast and in-boom main furlers have a history of jamming inside the mast/boom.
for a couple or single handed sailor, as much as they seem like a great labor and time saving idea, they can be just the opposite....
when they work, they are nice, and although sail shape suffers, sail shape is not as important on a cruiser as it is on a boat that is always searching for top speed.
they are not a desirable offshore rig.

Rick D · Mar 6, 2016

Well, you are certainly going to need some kind of mainsail handling system with a boat that big sailing short handed. While a lazy-jack system or stack-pack would work, you still have the issue of drooping battens, etc and need a Strong Track or similar system in my opinion. Certainly most of the boats sold here today have in-mast furling and many from any of the brands you mentioned from the latter 1990's forward probably do. Each has their quirks and assets but it often comes down to a good furling line, proper boom angle, free swivels, and a sail in good shape that isn't blown out. Make it a point of surveyor attention. As far as boats available, just look on this site. There is no shortage. Good luck.

capta · Mar 6, 2016

We LOVE our in mast furling, love it. Think of it as infinite reefing, and that's something one especially needs on the Bay to keep your boat footing nicely along when the wind changes. It's a dream system to operate, even single handed, if properly set up.
Don't let those who put the system down put you off. There is definitely a learning curve to using these systems, but once one has mastered it, you should never have a problem with it. Most who put them down just don't have the time sailing with them to have mastered the system. Every single incident that I know of where an inmast furling system screwed up can be attributed to operator error. Even with our monstrously baggy main, we have been rolling it in and out with a little caution, for over two years (new one finally on order). It has never been stuck so that it couldn't be gotten in or out with a bit of the old ins and outs game, kinda like rocking a car stuck in a hole.
Our friends on a HR were so fed up with their rf main that they were seriously considering the expense of a new mast. She often had to go aloft to furl or unfurl the sail. I suggested they take the sail to a sailmaker and he fixed the sail for a couple of hundred bucks. Now they also LOVE their rf main.
Just remember, infinite reefing; the perfect amount of sail for the conditions. Not the amount available at your reef points.
The only thing I know about inboom furling is that every single person who has it that I have questioned about it, says that some of the time to all of the time, someone must be at the mast to guide the slides on properly, when raising the sail. I've seen postings from those who disagree, but these are questions asked, usually from my dink, of skippers at anchor or at a dock in the West Indies who sail with them frequently.

seadaddler · Mar 6, 2016

Sailors who say don't In-mast usually don't know much about In-mast
and it's like the same ones that say Hunters are not good sailboats .
I sailed my 2007 H-36 In-mast for 2 years up New England and went to
Block Island Cape Code and in 2008 sailed all off shore from Montauk ,NY to Florida
and my crew was really Haters of Hunters and In-mast but after a week of offshore
they all said they changed their minds and said my boat was really a good sailboat.
I race here in Florida and winning a few races my crew all sooner or later they would love to have In-mast and not bad for a bad Hunter with sails with In-mast,offshore NY to Fl.
and winning races too.
As said if some one is having trouble and not in love with In-mast it's because they are doing some thing wrong or the sail or setup is all wrong,I would never own anything but In-mast.
Nick

Cat 310 #1 in GA · Mar 6, 2016

Agree with above message. Most or all who say in-mast furling isn't good have never had it. There is technique to using it like anything else, but there is good reason IMF has taken over the market. Have had it since 2001 and it only jammed once - last weekend and that was pulling it out because I did a poor job of furling it on the previous trip. It was easily fixed.

Ralph Johnstone · Mar 6, 2016

Have been using the Selden in mast furling for 16 years and have never had a problem unless it was my oversight in the beginning. Any problems (as Capta and seadaddler have mentioned) are likely due to the operator not knowing the equipment. Study the diagrams and be willing to practice, learn, and repeat a few times and you'll have no problems.

quadrille38 · Mar 6, 2016

Yes there are pros and cons but from my perspective the pros far outweigh the cons.
Because it is so easy to furl and unfurl we find that we make adjustments much more readily than with our previous boat that had a Dutchman system with traditional main. Yes that was a great product but reefing was still an effort especially when you consider that the time you are reefing is when the ride is getting uncomfortable.

In the past I'd tend to procrastinate and wait longer than I should to reef hoping that I could avoid it all together. Not a good strategy.

The year we got this boat we were on a trip and over the course of the trip I think we furled and unfurled 4 or 5 times as the wind built, slacked, and built again. Each time we were able to quickly and easily adjust sail size right from the cockpit. No climbing on a pitching rolling deck trying to reef a sail. That cinched it for me.

While we are in our 60s now our dream is to sail until old age makes that no longer possible and the furling main pushes that out hopefully until we are well into our 80s.

Rich Stidger · Mar 6, 2016

We installed the Schaefer boom furler last year. I wish I had done it years ago. If you are going to install a system on a conventional boat, the boom furling has many advantages over the mast furling. If you are really interested in the comparison, PM me and I will give you my 2 cents.

And yes, they are expensive. Many boat units.

centerline · Mar 6, 2016

seadaddler said:
Sailors who say don't In-mast usually don't know much about In-mast
and it's like the same ones that say Hunters are not good sailboats .

like all systems, they are good as long as they work proper, and maintenance may have something to do with that...
some people have a tendency to shy away from expensive systems that require more care to keep them working perfectly, and the in-boom/mast furling systems need to work perfectly or they are undependable.

but as you alluded to, I personally dont have any experience with them, so I can only pass on the advice given by such world sailors such as Nigel Caulder, Hal Roth, Bernard Moitessier, and others who have written so in their books.... for bluewater cruising, they are not a good option, but then neither is a small 20ft sailboat, but there are some that have done it...

Victor needs to hear both sides of the argument and make up his mind based on how he is going to use the boat

capta · Mar 6, 2016

[QUOTE="centerline, post: Bernard Moitessier, and others who have written so in their books.... for bluewater cruising, they are not a good option[/QUOTE]
Please show me where Bernard said anything of the sort in any of his books. When we were sailing the SoPac together, inmast furling did not exist and if roller furling head sails did, they were pretty unreliable equipment, judging by the first set up I saw in 1979.
Furling sails, along with almost every other bit of sailing equipment has improved a thousand fold since any of those men you mentioned, wrote their books on ocean sailing.
After over 50 years of 'bluewater' sailing, professionally and for pleasure, I'd not 'bluewater' sail a non-traditional vessel without an in mast furling system, again. It just makes sailing so much easier, safer and more fun.
Since you "personally dont have any experience with them", why would you even post to this thread?

MattM83 · Mar 6, 2016

from my experience they work well as long as they are maintained and the sail is in good shape. each has its quirks which you will quickly figure out. as for failure. any system can fail, even the most basic. if you plan to single hand a boat that size i would almost concider main sail furling a must.

Scotty C-M · Mar 6, 2016

I love my in-mast system. It's been 3 years now, and not a bit of problem. I've paid a lot of attention to advice about how to use them, and also go slowly in setting and furling. It works great. My brother has a roller boom (It's a Schaefer) and he loves it. Same thing - pay attention on how to use it. By the way, both systems deploy and furl without going out of the cockpit. We both have electric winches to help with the load - and use them carefully. No problems when you pay attention.

Solstice · Mar 7, 2016

Rich Stidger said:
We installed the Schaefer boom furler last year. I wish I had done it years ago. If you are going to install a system on a conventional boat, the boom furling has many advantages over the mast furling. If you are really interested in the comparison, PM me and I will give you my 2 cents.

And yes, they are expensive. Many boat units.

I have to agree with Rich on this one. When we bought our boat, it came standard with In-Mast. I fought hard and seriously considered putting a standard Mast in at additional cost. As a former racer I heard all of the cons, however we also realized this is a cruising boat and we are not getting any younger. This will be our 6th season and I am thrilled with the In-Mast--

However, if I were to do it over again I would opt for the In-Boom option. I sail regularly on a Skye 50 with In-Boom and I think it is the best compromise between the 3. One thing to consider with In-Boom is that you still are hoisting a Main, so an electric winch is almost always a key component on larger boats.
Everything is a compromise and In-Mast furlers have come a long way in terms of realibility (remember when people made the same arguments about jib furlers?)
Good luck...

cygnussailor · Mar 7, 2016

I have in-mast roller furling. If I had it to do over again I would get a boom furler. Two reasons for this: 1. An in-mast furler needs a triangular cut sail with no roach. A boom furler can carry roach similar to a conventional main. 2. With a boom furler you can have horizontal battens, again similar to a conventional main. With an in-mast furler you will either have no battens or vertical battens which don't work as well as horizontal battens.

davidf995 · Mar 7, 2016

My 393 came with in mast furling. Hated it and replaced with traditional main with Fastrak.
Undependable when needed most as has been said. Just didn't trust it.
AND they are DOGS as far as performance-
no battens, INVERSE roach. I walk by similar boats now with in-mast systems.

Les · Mar 7, 2016

I've had roller furling main on my last two Hunter sailboats (Hunter 380 and 27) for 17 years and after initial adjustments it has worked well. I also use the WinchRite device to power my winches. Given that I'll be eighty-three next month I need the WinchRite to help with the furling.

Some years ago I was a charter boat skipper on a boat with boom furling. My only complaint was that when partially furled I had no outhaul adjustment available. However, I have to admit it didn't seem to affect the sailing of the boat. Perhaps they now had addressed that problem.

I wish you well.

Rich Stidger · Mar 7, 2016

cygnussailor said:
I have in-mast roller furling. If I had it to do over again I would get a boom furler. Two reasons for this: 1. An in-mast furler needs a triangular cut sail with no roach. A boom furler can carry roach similar to a conventional main. 2. With a boom furler you can have horizontal battens, again similar to a conventional main. With an in-mast furler you will either have no battens or vertical battens which don't work as well as horizontal battens.

AND.... if it ever did jam, you can drop the main like a conventional sail unlike a mast furl where it is half in and half out. Reef at any batten point you like too. If you ever need to work on the furling mechanism, it is all at deck level. The only con I can think of (besides price) is that you still need a sail cover. But the two most popular boom furlers have a really neat cover that deploys and retracts very quickly.

JSumme · Mar 7, 2016

Obviously, a lot of strong opinions here. So I'll throw in my two cents. In 2014, I bought a new Hunter 33e, delivered in 2015. In mast furling was free with the Mariners package as part of the boat show incentive. So that kind of flies in the face of the "expensive" argument. Anyway, I wouldn't have a sailboat with any other system. My previous boat required someone to mount the cabin if you wanted to strike the main, standing there with the boat in the wind, sails flogging mercilessly, and trying to hold on and uncleat the halyard...not fun! Now when I single hand, I simply lock the wheel, step foreword in the cockpit, throw open a clutch cleat and haul or winch in the main while standing at the safest spot on the boat. Also, as mentioned above, infinite reefing! Perfect for the cruising single hander or couple. Mine is Selden and I wouldn't trade it for anything. It has not jammed or had any problems in two years.

seadaddler · Mar 8, 2016

I single sail my H-36 by my self all the time and while cruising from anchorage we would get early start and my wife would be down below making breakfast and I would get the sails out with my In-mast main sail and my rollerfurling jib and all while she is below and me never leaving the cockpit and hand me up my coffee and than my eggs.
And as I am sailing away I watch my other club members with wife in cockpit and husband
up on the deck hoisting the sails.
Also when cruising many other club members may use just the head sail while in ICW
or in small tight bays I would have a reefed In-mast and jib.
Just learn proper easy furling in of the In-mast and never have any jamming,many do not understand that the sail needs to furl into the mast evenly with out any bunching up and if not done this way that is when the jam happens next time the sail needs to roll out,and when after many years if the sail gets baggy it will not furl in properly.
My H-36 is 2007 and my UK In-mast sail is my stock sail from Hunter and still working fine no jamming.
I believe I see so many sailors with In-mast and many add some kind of after market
furling main sails.
Like any type of furling jib or main if not setup properly or used correctly yes will be problems but I see most with In-mast love them and never go back to standard sails and in our club many race with In-mast and have many wins against standard sails.
Nick

Traditional or In-Mast or Boom Furler

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