Towing a Mac26s with a FWD 2007 Sienna

MrBill_FLL · Dec 21, 2012

you really want a 20% margin, so you are borderline... that said you can get away with it if you don't go over 60-65mph, and have enough tongue weight. (most move the single axle back 12-13") or pull the engine off for each tow.

now to the pulling out of ramps. you can 'blow the ballast' with a high volume low pressure pump, (aka a mattress inflator ).
you will open the wing nut (valve) hold the pump, over the vent hole. (or screw in a fitting and hose so you don't have to hold it there). 20min later you will have dumped 60% of the water. (-that's as long as I've waited)

you can also put wood blocks in front of the front wheels as a safety, and a rope to the fender so as you move up the are pulled.

once you get most of the boat out of the water and on the ramp. stop. and let the rest drain.

I'd add a trans cooler if not already equipped. not that much $ and will save your transmission.

MrBill_FLL · Dec 21, 2012

have you done the macgregor bump? once on the flat, you boat will be away from the V stop about 8".... that is a known problem w/ the factory trailer.

most do about 15-20mph and slam on the brakes! some vasoline on the bunks helps..

Matros · Dec 21, 2012

I've read about a few owners that have installed a water pump and routed a pick up hose from inside the ballast tank to the pump and then pumped out through a through-hull above the waterline.

I've also read of a few people who just hook up a small cheap air mattress pump to the air vent on top of the tank, and with the ballast tank opened at the bottom, force the water out of the ballast.

I either method would work. But the mattress pump seems much easier.

Sumner · Dec 21, 2012

How far are you towing and is it going to be mostly flat? You for sure are going to probably be over that 2800 lbs.

Here is a reply on weight from another Mac board...

My trailer is stock MacGregor. I weighed my boat and trailer last year and it came in at 1,260kg without the following on board:
Rudder blade - est 8kg
Motor - est 40kg
Water bottles - 30kg (for 3)
Fuel cans - est 50kg (for 2)
Anchors, ropes and chains - est 30kg (for the 2)
Total - say 160kg

Therefore with all that on board it would weigh 1,420kg or 30kg under my legal TARE of 1,450kg

You might need to convert that back to lbs.

My boat has stove, shelves, bunk cushions, safety gear, books, VHF, radio, rigging and sails, linelines, staunchions, pushpit, pulpit and a bit of other personal gear on board.

So from that 1260 KG = 2777 lbs.. His boat and trailer empty is close to the 2800 lb.. With the items that he is carrying he is at 1450kg or 3196 lb. close to 3200 lbs.

If you are pulling a couple miles then you are probably fine. I personally would not want to take the chance on hurting a good vehicle that could cost a lot to repair or replace towing right at the tow limits. Our solution was an under $4000 '99 Suburban that tows the boat easily and safely.

Again it is going to depend on where you are towing and how far in my opinion. The thoughts on a transmission cooler (also don't tow in high gear) and blowing the water are good ones. I wouldn't be as concerned pulling the boat out of the water in low gear and letting it drain as I would trying to pull over mountain passes and long uphills with the pedal to the floor all of the time.

A lot of the tow capacity's are based more on the vehicle weight and not so much if the engine/trans can live. To be safe the tow vehicle has to weigh more than the towed vehicle and this is even more critical if the towed vehicle doesn't have working brakes. As an example we are looking at a Colorado pickup. With the 5 cylinder motor in the small cab version the tow capacity is 4000 lb. yet the crew cab with the same 5 cylinder is 5500 lb. just because it weighs more. Getting the crewcab will give us some leeway if we wanted to pull the Mac. Still I would not want to pull it very far, especially in the terrain where we live, with the Colorado. I just think that it would not be good on the engine and not enjoyable either and the trailer has a second axle with working disc brakes. We will keep the Suburban until we sell the Mac.

You might also check the overall vehicle rating for your vehicle. The combined weight of the trailer and contents of the vehicle and trailer might be higher than they should be.

Here is an interesting read....

http://forums.iboats.com/trailers-towing/questions-about-towing-07-toyota-sienna-226366.html

Sum

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Maine Sail · Dec 21, 2012

Babbleduck said:
Hello everyone,

I'm wondering what 7/8-passenger vehicles people are using to tow their Mac26s/d. I own a 2007 Toyota Sienna which is rated to tow 3,500 lbs. That seems to be plenty for an empty water ballast tank. However, I have something that concerns me: my vehicle is FWD and I'm worried about its ability to pull a 2,850 lb boat (1,650 lb. boat + 1,200 water ballast) + trailer + gear up high enough to empty the water ballast tank. Sienna makes a AWD van, so I suppose I could trade in mine for one of those. However, it seems that most, if not all, 7/8-passenger vehicles (I have three kids) have a towing limit of 3,500 lbs.--even a Honda Pilot. Is my van sufficient? Would an AWD vehicle with the same towing capacity be adequate if my current vehicle is not enough. I appreciate and insights you can provide.

Finally, is there a way to partial/completely empty the water ballast tank before returning to the launch so I'm not burdened with as much water at the ramp? I know the powersailers can dump water at high speeds, but I don't know if the Mac26s/d boats have the same capacity.

Regards,

Babbleduck

If you are careful you can do okay. Here's how I roll when towing things with cars not designed for towing..

*Add a transmission cooler

*The Toyota WS ATF "lifetime" fluid is COMPLETE HOGWASH unless of course "lifetime" is Toyota's covered "warranty period". However do not use any fluid other than Toyota WS ATF. On my 2008 Highlander I changed it (really a drain & fill) at 30k and sent it out for analysis. Recommended to change more frequently (they have NO IDEA how many miles are on the fluid I send them). Lots of "trace amounts". At 60K did the same assumed it was just "break in", no better result. At 80k I sent it out and it came back better but still not great. I changed it again at 110k but never sent it out for analysis because I was getting rid of the car. I used to do 80k to 100k miles per year in sales and sales management, did so for about 20 years, so most of my driving was highway..

My current Toyota had it changed at 60k (I have all the service records) and again two days ago at 121k and it is BAD. So bad I will do it again in 3K miles then again in another 3k and will repeat until clean. Will be sending it out the current sample for analysis next week..

Neither of these vehicles ever towed a trailer... I have found the SAME thing with my wife's Honda Pilot. These "lifetime" fluid statements for transmissions is pure bunk. Honda and Toyota customers expect 200 - 300k miles out of their vehicles and Honda and Toyota are doing themselves a grave disservice suggesting the fluid is "lifetime", even if not towing. These fluids are good for 30 - 40K, in my experience, and based on analysis. This is still far better than older ATF's but still a far, far cry from the "lifetime" they are billed to be. If you keep your cars for more than 60k invest in transmission fluid changes. If you are towing with ti you would be VERY, VERY wise to change it more often and send out samples for analyses. I use Blackstone Labs. Toyota gets about $75.00 - $110.00 depending upon the dealer, for a drain & fill, with Toyota WS. A new transmission will run you 5k. The Honda Pilot and the Acura MDX are known for transmission failures beyond 120k if the fluid is not changed. However when the fluids are changed regularly these failures don't seem to happen. Go figure...

*On the ramp manually switch to low gear. Most cars will try and start in a higher gear for fuel savings.

*On the highway do not use over drive. Use third (if a four speed auto) or fourth gear (if a five speed auto) when towing. The overdrive gears in these are fairly miniscule incomparison to the lower gears...

*When going up hills manually select the appropriate gear to prevent gear hunting.

*Trailer brakes. Make sure you have them and they work well...

*If doing lots of extended towing get yourself a used tow vehicle...

I don't tow much anymore but used to and these were all tricks I leaned from a friends father who owned a transmission shop. He repaired them but always taught us kids how to not wind up in his shop....

r.oril · Dec 21, 2012

I'm liking the 12 volt air pump and routing the water out the starboard thru hole for the sink. With this setup, you can dump some ballast when headed down wind or back to the ramp.

My Chevy truck with a 454 doesn't even know there is a boat back there.

Maine Sail · Dec 21, 2012

r.oril said:
My Chevy truck with a 454 doesn't even know there is a boat back there.

I bet it knows right where every gas station is though...

finding41 · Dec 21, 2012

The advice from Sumner and Maine Sail are right on the money.
I purchase used vehicles. Always change the transmission fluid and filter. I'm amazed at how much metal can be found in the bottom of the pan and on the magnet.
I use what ever fluid it calls for and a Lucas transmission additive. I use the Lucas engine additive when I change the motor oil as well.

r.oril · Dec 21, 2012

Gas Stations are programed into the GPS. LOL!
I can get 12 - 14 mpg pulling at 55 - 60.
If I were to use my 2004 Sienna it would only get 14 mpg.

Doc_holiday · Dec 21, 2012

We use a 2005 Buick Terraza. (Same as Chevy Uplander) it did fine but I wouldn't want to do it weekly. I can haul it in the spring and back home in the fall.

Sumner · Dec 21, 2012

Babbleduck said:
Great tips everyone! I'm going to spend some time trying to digest this information and see what my best options are. I'd like the ability to travel long distances because we have some great lakes in the pacific northwest. How do you work out insuring a used tow vehicle if you are only using it on a limited basis? I'd have to make sure that the vehicle still seats five because I'll have the wife and kids (3) with me on most trips.

Trips for you where you live are going to involve mountains. Seriously look at a '96 on up Suburban. If they have been cared for they will go 250,000 miles on the engine and transmission. If you get one over 150,000 spend the money on a new radiator. All of these suburbans and trucks, not just Chevy's have plastic radiators on them now. Ours broke in 108 deg. AZ heat and hurt the motor at 175,000 miles. We just put in a new motor. The good news is you can get a brand new complete 5.7 V-8 from Chevy with a 3 yr/100,000 mile warranty for under $1900 delivered.

Our Suburban came with the 3 seat option and you can remove the 3rd seat. It is very comfortable and we love it on the road. I had a friend that has had a number and he said that we would love it and we do. I thought it would be too big, but I call it driving with a wide screen. It is one of the most comfortable vehicles I've ever driven. They don't get as bad gas mileage as you would think. We usually don't drive it on trips unless we are towing, but it does get 17-18 on the highway not towing. We get about 11 towing the Mac, but it is really loaded. We get 15 towing the smaller enclosed trailer and we only get 16 towing it with the Buick that gets 30 not towing. I don't think you are going to get better than 13 mpg towing with about anything unless it is a diesel so enjoy a roomy comfortable vehicle that tows with ease.

Find one for under $4000 with under 150,000 miles and enjoy it but change the radiator out,

Sum

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anthony · Dec 22, 2012

re towing with the sienna

I had a pontiac Aztec fwd 3.4lt engine rated for the same 3500 lbs,Nanna a 1975 ven25 with swing keel and original trailer (steel heavy) plus everything, sails rope engine the whole nine yards so to speak I was close to the max, no problem, my problem was when I got to the slip, it is gravel and rock and with it being fwd and all that weight on the hitch it was OK to launch but retrieval was impossible, had to have a friend pull it out for me with a 4x4.So if you are on a ramp like that be carefull.. We now own a dodge ram1500 4x4 and this year when we launched and retrieved Nanna no problem. The Aztec finally died.

monkeybars · Dec 22, 2012

Babbleduck said:
Great tips everyone! I'm going to spend some time trying to digest this information and see what my best options are. I'd like the ability to travel long distances because we have some great lakes in the pacific northwest. How do you work out insuring a used tow vehicle if you are only using it on a limited basis? I'd have to make sure that the vehicle still seats five because I'll have the wife and kids (3) with me on most trips.

Insurance on an old used pick-up is peanuts.No offense but if it is a major consideration for you,you should probably not be purchasing a boat ,but instead building up a 529 fund for those three kids.Boats are notorius for eating up all your spare change.

MrBill_FLL · Dec 22, 2012

monkeybars said:
Insurance on an old used pick-up is peanuts.No offense but if it is a major consideration for you,you should probably not be purchasing a boat ,but instead building up a 529 fund for those three kids.Boats are notorius for eating up all your spare change.

really, who do you use?

I have a 03 expedition (5.4) w/ tow pkg, 2x4 and am getting only 13mpg around town, and 14 on hwy. -K&N filters, stock exhaust.... shocked at the numbers on the 454 and 5.7ltr... what am I doing wrong!!!

I now have 150k on the odo, and am looking for something w/ better gas, and keeping the expedition for just tows. insurance (just me) will be 70% of current, if I get a new car. -state farm.

now if I got a 30 yr old truck it would be pnuts. but I don't want to wrench on a truck and have questions about reliability when towing.

ps: I added the transmission drain plug at 40k. now I can drop fluids once a year, w/ no mess. don't think the filter is that important. (it is huge).

this one:
http://www.amazon.com/80250-Automatic-Transmission-Universal-Drain/dp/B00029WR78

http://www.amazon.com/80250-Automatic-Transmission-Universal-Drain/dp/B00029WR78

I also stick a magnet on my drain plug (oil and trans).

Sumner · Dec 22, 2012

MrBill_FLL said:
..... shocked at the numbers on the 454 and 5.7ltr... what am I doing wrong!!!...

The 5.7 (350 cu. in.) will get new numbers and the newer 5.3 also gets good mileage and it has torque. The 454 (7.4 litter) does not get good mileage. Good with it not towing is 13-14, but towing it isn't much worst than the 5.7 so I'd say it is about the same as the Ford. I would never get the 454 unless I was towing really heavy loads ( over 6,000 lb.) A number of people with motorhomes that had 454's replaced them with the 500 cu. in. Caddy motors and got more power and better mileage.

Bill I have the drain plugs in my Hot Rod also. Only problem is that you are changing out what is in the pan and there is still tons of fluid in the converter. On that vehicle I can change what is in the pan and then remove the line at the remote filter and start the engine and it pumps the old fluid out the filter line. When it starts pumping out the new fluid then I can shut it off and add fluid. This way I can flush the fluid out of the converter as it goes from the pan to the converter to the cooler and remote filter. You can also go in and get the flush. Still if you change it like you are doing more often you are doing a good job.

I run a transmission gauge on that vehicle and with the external cooler it never runs over 150 deg. and the fluid always looks new. Heat is what kills an automatic.

Babbleduck said:
I'm glad to hear that insurance isn't too pricey. Without disclosing too much, I'm already putting quite a bit into my kid's college fund and, fortunately, generate a pretty comfortable income. Given those two facts, it sounds like purchasing a third vehicle that is dedicated to towing would be a good choice for me? Does that sound fair? Thanks!

I think we pay less than $150 a year for liability only on the Suburban. It doesn't make much sense to carry collision on an older vehicle. The other big savings for us is that in Utah once a vehicle is over 10 years old the plates are all the same price, about $50 a year. A newer vehicle's plates can be very expensive in Utah.

I think the third vehicle is a good idea. You will be able to sell it at some point. Someone else took the big depreciation hit and you can have a daily driver that gets good mileage. Take you time and find something with low mileage and you won't put that much more on while you own it and still be able to sell it down the road,

Sum

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patrickfarley · Dec 25, 2012

I have a 99 Suburban 6.5 turbodiesel. It pulls just fine. I got 17 mpg on the way down here(525 miles to Sarasota). Normally with the new government formulation I get between 15 and 16 mpg. I lowered the tire pressure???? I wanted a smoother ride and I use LT tires. I started using LT tires before I had a tandem axle trailer. The LT tires stopped any sway when big trucks passed me. Don't need the LT tires now. It tows with no sway even when trucks pass me at 80. I am not sure why I got better mileage. I checked the math twice. Although since it is only one tank of fuel maybe I messed it up somehow. I will be checking again on the way back.
I keep basic liability and collision on the Suburban. I calculated that it costs about $30 a month to keep the Suburban as a second vehicle. With the large capacity tank I always try to buy my fuel through a program. In Georgia Kroger gives you 10 cents off per gallon for every $100 spent or $50 in gift cards up to $2 off per gallon for 35 gallons. It only takes 33 gallons to get to Sarasota. Sunoco has a similar program here in Sarasota that I am taking advantage of for the trip back.
Drives fine. Stops fine.
I have small tires on the trailer that make it easy to launch but they are only rated at 62mph. So I only go around 62mph on the road. Makes for a long trip.
I am very poor. I do all my own work(repairs and improvements to truck and boat).
I vote for having a separate vacation vehicle if you can store it as well as use it at least a couple times a month.

Towing a Mac26s with a FWD 2007 Sienna

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