Toe Rail Help

[repawn]

I am repairing the leaks on my boat and have to remove the toe rails on my Oday 22 - there are 5 screws in each section - I would like to pot the holes with epoxy but I am unable to find the exit hole of the screw? They are held in place with 1" screws and I have been inside the cabin attempting to find where they come through - no luck. My question is can I just pot the holes with thickened epoxy? I am concerned because I would like to put some sort of backing over the holes.

Second part of the questions, when replacing the teak toe rails what works as a sealant, I have butyl tape - but I am not sure that would be the best for something like a 7 foot section of toe rail. Would I just put a little sealant into the hole and then put in the screw? maybe something like 4200?

Thanks!

Fixing this mess tonight - and potting the holes:

 

[agprice22]

Since your teak toe rails need to be firmly in place, butyl rubber is not the right stuff. Use a permanent 3m adhesive: 5200 is for permanent adhesion.

If you cannot find the back of the screw holes to tape them, the epoxy might simply pour through them. You could use thickened epoxy. You could use West Low Density Filler 407 or Microlight Filler 410, suitable for above the waterline. Mix the epoxy and filler till it is very thick paste, then add the hardener, blend, and fill the holes. Since you will have quite a few holes to fill, you might want to use the 206 slow or the 209 extra slow hardener. Also, when mixing large amounts, use a flat tray to keep the mix cool. It will help keep it from kicking as fast. Heat builds up faster in a cup, and heat kicks the epoxy faster.

Get the epoxy thick! Or it will just sag out of your holes.

Remember to pot those holes, so you aren't simply drilling the epoxy right back out of them.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[svchickadee]

I reinstalled the toe rail on my Oday 25 using the following process. Overdrill the deck hole with a 1/4" bit. Then drive a 1/4" wood dowel down the hole leaving room at the deck level for epoxy. Drive the dowel down as far as possible. The dowel will prevent the epoxy from leaking. Tape around the deck hole. Clean the hole with acetone using a qtip. Coat the hole with neat epoxy using a brush. Fill the hole with epoxy thickened with silica. The deck must be dry. Put some paper towels in the cabin to catch any thing that might come out the bottom. I did not use a syringe to fill the hole. Pour the thickened epoxy in the hole slowly so you don't get an air bubble. If the epoxy fill is too thin, thicken with more silica. The mix can be as thick a peanut butter and still work.

 

[svchickadee]

Forgot to say that I used butyl tape from Maine Sail and followed his installation instructions. Tighten the toe rail screws over a period of a few days to give the caulk time to spread.

 

[repawn]

Thanks for the suggestions!

When you used the butyl tape did you seal the entire toe rail or just around the screw hole? I am not sure about using 5200 - but was considering 4200 - I may need to take the toe rails off in the future (hope not.)

Anyone with an Oday 22 know where the screws come through? I can see pretty much all the other deck hardware including the screws from the coaming - but the toe rails are a mystery

 

[svchickadee]

I had an Oday 22 twenty years ago. The toe rail screws are hidden between the deck and the cabin pan. They serve only to hold the toe rail down. They are not visible from the cabin (same with the Oday 25).

Some caulks do not work well with teak in the long term. I used butyl and put it along the entire toe rail. Countersink the deck holes, put butyl on the screw head, insert the screw thru the toe rail and then wrap the screw with butyl to fill up the countersink hole.

Don't be stingy with the butyl caulk.

 

[ChattOday]

I have a 22 and refurbished my toe rails last year. Pulled every last one off. I also redid the entire deck, so I removed every last deck attachment. I sealed every last while with west systems epoxy. It is thick enough it will sit and not drain down. Just don't mess with it while it cures. Tap it down just enough to avoid needing to do a ton of sanding. Then I primed, topcoated the deck. Every screw and nut had 3m 5200 adhesive seal applied when reinstalling.

My boat is the most watertight she has probably ever been.

If you just epoxy, and then 5200, you will be fine. Don't bother trying to get at it from below.... What a pain.

One note. Don'tfully screw everything down. Leave just a bit. Let the 5200 cure, then give everthinng that little extraturn down. It creates the very strong rubberized seal.

Good luck.

 

[agprice22]

I don't feel good about butyl rubber against wood. Wood soaks up water, and butyl rubber won't stick to water soaked items. That worries me. I would use the 4200. Butyl rubber works best against solid, less porous surfaces which take strain, like chain plates, stanchion mounts, and other deck mounted plates. It replaces silicone well because it doesn't separate from the surfaces.

If the toe rail pulls up for some reason, I fear the butyl rubber won't stick to it, and that means water could intrude.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[repawn]

I haven't had time for an update lately - but I have removed some deck hardware and the toe rails - cut out the wet area of the deck and ended up with this for a hole:

There was a lot of good dry wood in the middle - the edges were wet - likely from the toe rail leaking - there was nothing under the stanchion base - completely rotted out.

If I can get some dry weather I will fill the hole - i have 1/4 marine plywood - I want the structural aspects of the marine ply under the stanchion base (if I decide to put them back up.) I had to remove everything from the inside of the boat - all foam, bunks, etc - I left the main bulkhead and mast brace - but everything else is out. Does anyone know what the brown gasket is and what to replace it with (see pic)

Anyway - there is much to do before I get her in the water - more than I initially thought anyway.

 

[Ward H]

If that brown gasket is just a trim piece to dress up the where the bulkhead meets the hull, someone on here recently showed how they used spare line as the trim piece. It came out pretty good.

 

[agprice22]

I liked the rope idea for trim. You could also wrap rope with vinyl and use that. My wife found some flexible trim:

http://www.flexiblemillwork.com

It looks really nice. She said to look around and find good prices because it can be expensive. You can stain it and paint it too!

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Yankee Girl]

The toe rails are counter sunk and then bungs put on them on my boat. Has anyone ever tried pan screws? I would think you'd get a better seal and it could look salty if you use silicon bronze....plus if you wanted to remove for whatever reason it's easier. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Ward H]

I would think that if you went with pan head screws you would have to worry about sealing under the screw head and then again under the toe rail where water might seep underneath.
With bungs you have a smoother surface which is water proof, if done correctly.