to upsize or downsize?

[fishingaz]

Hi all first post here but would like your thoughts on sizes that suits different people.i sail a wooden ilur dinghy at this time but i think i would like a catalina 22 in the near future for single handling and trailabilety ,but if i get the feeling that most with this size of vessel wish to upsize for any reason i may change my mind and look for something in the 28 to 32 foot range,but then again people with 32 foot vessels may want to downsize, and this may be helpful for others in my position thanks .Gaz.

 

[Stu Jackson]

We started with C22, great boat, trailered it up to a big lake for the summers and left it in the water there. Dry sailed it during winter in Alameda, CA. Got tired of the effort and bought a Catalina 25, great 13 years. 20 years now with this boat.

Depends on what YOU want to do and how far you want to sail.

Good luck, and welcome.

 

[JRT]

Since you have some experience why not try and find a few owners to check out their boats in the sizes you are interested.

 

[thinwater]

I downsized from a 34' cruising cat to a 24' tri because that was the change I wanted. I didn't need it any more.

 

[Gene Neill]

It all depends if you want trailerability or not.

If you want to trailer sail, 28' - 32' is pretty much off the table. If you keep your boat in a slip, I'd get something bigger than 22'.

FWIW, Catalina 22's are almost unanimously loved by their owners. And by their FORMER owners, which should tell you even more.

 

[rgranger]

You asked a fundamental question. There isn't a single right answer. I started with a MacGregor V21...we had a of fun in it and it turned out that most of the time my family wanted to accompany me on our over night cruises. We are a family of 6 so the 21 was too small and I moved up to a Cornado 23, (I should have kept that boat) but a Coronado 25 came up for sale at a great price and...... The 25 was a fixed keel non-trailerable boat and my first experience with a boat kept at a slip. I quickly got bored of sailing the same water each weekend and went back down to a MacGregor 22... but I was back to a boat that was too small so I tried a Balboa 26. Technically the Balboa is trailerable but ...boy was that a beast of a boat. Heavy construction, massive rigging and a 2500 lead ball on the bottom of the keel.... stiff as hell! Great sailing boat but not the sort of boat you want to rig on a regular basis. I now have a Hunter 26 water ballast. Much easier to rig and launch than the Balboa but not as easy as the Mac 22. I now have room in the boat for everyone and their stuff for an overnight cruise. But water ballast has its own set of compromises too. Someplace in the mix I purchased a Hobie 16 which is my go-to when I want to day sail by myself or with just one other person and the Hunter 26 is used for longer adventures.

You will have to answer a few questions for yourself

1) HOW do you want to use the boat? Day sailing? Overnight, weekend cruises?
2) Where do you want to use the boat? Do you plan on sailing out of a single port or do you intend to explore different lakes, bays etc. (are you going to keep the boat in a slip or trailer the boat?)
3) How many people (and their stuff) will you want to accommodate in the boat?

For me, (and in hindsight), I should have purchased a MacGregor 26S or 26D as my first boat and spent my time and money setting that boat up the way I wanted it and just stuck with that one boat. But I had not really figured out how I was going to use the boat back then.

 

[thinwater]

Having been there...

Big boats are...

• More comfortable.
• Faster if comparable.
• More seaworthy... though it takes more wind to make them fun.
• More work to maintain. Don't underestimate this.
• At some point too much trouble to take out for the day.
• Generally harder to single hand, though this can go either way.
  
• Considerably less nimble if shorthanded.

Smaller boats are...

• More fun in light winds.
• More fun in smaller sailing areas.
• Generally physically easier to sail, through this can go either way.
• More nimble.
  
• Less work to maintain.
  
• Less stressful if something breaks. It's cheaper to fix, easier, faster, and less physical.

I'm glad I learned on small boats, I'm glad I experienced bigger boats and cruised farther, and I'm glad I down-sized when I was done.

 

[Warren Milberg]

...and then there are the costs associated with buying, maintaining, insuring, etc.

 

[thinwater]

...and then there are the costs associated with buying, maintaining, insuring, etc.

Absolutely. But I was trying to exclude money, which is not everything to everybody. There are reasons why a rich man enjoys a small boat. The Alerion Express comes to mind. In many ways, I enjoy my bicycle more than my car.

A boat should be a tool for enjoyment, not a status symbol, not unless that is what drives you (and I am sorry for those it does). Sailing should be fun.

[Warren, that next-to-last sentence was most emphatically NOT directed at you.]

 

[Warren Milberg]

Thinwater: Sounds like you and I have had the same sorts of experiences in regard to upsizing and downsizing. I think the key here is to find the best size boat that fits as many of your needs as possible. I'm sure we both know fellow sailors who, for one reason or another, bought bigger boats only to find they sailed less often and it cost more. Most, perhaps like us, eventually downsized.
FYI, the best sailing boat I have ever owned was a full-keeled, Alberg-designed, 23-ft Seasprite. But it was a really poor boat to overnight or cruise in. So the key is knowing what you want out of a boat and then optimizing as best you can. Life, and sailing, is a learning experience....

 

[Will Gilmore]

Fishingaz,
Welcome to SBO. I really love your little boat. She's a beauty and I'm sure a pleasure to sail. I know you will find what you are looking for on this forum. It is good to have you join us.
It looks like you are in Australia. There are is an Australian who has posted a few videos on YouTube about sailing his trailersailer. Just search trailersailer videos and he will pop-up. I don't know what his boat is, but I think it is in the 20' range. Let us know the answers to some of rgranger's questions.
The setup and design of your potential sailboat has a great deal to do with how satisfied you will be with your decision. My boat is a 19' O'Day Mariner. She has a large cockpit for a boat her size and can accommodate up to six people for a casual day dail. Yet, she still has berths for four. As an overnighter, weekender, that would be ok too. Ideally, two could live on her for a week or more with a carefully planned and thoughtful outfitting. The nice thing about her is how easy she is to rig at the ramp. Many trailersailors design and build mast raising systems to make a difficult task for two, easy for one. The C22 is one of the better rigs for this, I think. There are a lot of trailerables, but they are definitely not all the same. What exactly are you looking to do? Do you want to sail the same way you sail your dinghy only with more camping capacity or are you looking to experience the sailing of a larger boat, maybe take friends and family out? What is your plan for the future? Ocean sailing and living aboard? The C22 is an excellent choice for its size and flexibility, but it sounds like you have bigger plans in the back of your mind.
Also, keep in mind, C22s are enormously popular, which means, later upsizing is easier because a good C22 is not as hard to sell.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[fishingaz]

Thanks for all your replys, im looking at something like a catalina 22 to feed my thirst for open water sailing,as you can see i am a keen fisherman as well as sailor. and there are some great grounds where we live ,in the past i have fished these parts in my old power boat but now that is gone wish to get back out there.in close is fine but to get the juvenile black marlin the grounds are between 8 and 12 nautical mile which with a close eye on weather is doable .i know we cant get everything out of our boats but im quite sure the 22 would be a good fit for me at this time i was thinking the cat 250 but im 67 now and 80%of the time it will be just myself so ease of handling launching is on the list ,dont get me wrong its not all fishing i love being out there sailing ,a few old blokes i sail with in dinghys also sail on larger vessels but they all come back to dinghy sailing .thanks again Gaz.

 

[fishingaz]

It all depends if you want trailerability or not.

If you want to trailer sail, 28' - 32' is pretty much off the table. If you keep your boat in a slip, I'd get something bigger than 22'.

FWIW, Catalina 22's are almost unanimously loved by their owners. And by their FORMER owners, which should tell you even more.

just like to say thanks for your post and your youtube videos i have watched and am leaning that way but not many cat 22s in this country some early boomaroo 22s but most are very tired but i will wait and one will come up,thanks again Gaz

 

[MitchM]

gaz, check out practical boat owner the british sailing mag. they have great reviews of sailboats which unfortunately are not even available in the USA. brit boats like the cornish shrimper or cornish crabber might be just right for you.

 

[dscribner]

We started with a Lancer 25. Large for trailering but trailerable nonetheless. I made a number of modifications so we could go from pulling into the launch to floating her free in 25 minutes. On a good day. Two years ago we purchased a Pearson-O'Day 290, number 7 of 8. Trailering is not a consideration, though I am currently building a trailer or bring her home. But, my down undah-brothah, the comfort of the 290 is something. It isn't like a 35 that comes with its own sous chef, but to get hot water on occasion, go below and make a cup of coffee or cocoa, go to the head then flush . . . it's like heaven after the 25 with the porta-pottie. Yes, there are big boat issues . . . systems that you need to blunder into, I mean, learn. But, that's what makes life fun, right?

 

[fishingaz]

gaz, check out practical boat owner the british sailing mag. they have great reviews of sailboats which unfortunately are not even available in the USA. brit boats like the cornish shrimper or cornish crabber might be just right for you.

Thanks Mitch i have seen those vessels you mentioned and yes they would suit the fishing side and are easy on the eye but i still like the sailing side of it. thanks again Gaz.

 

[fishingaz]

We started with a Lancer 25. Large for trailering but trailerable nonetheless. I made a number of modifications so we could go from pulling into the launch to floating her free in 25 minutes. On a good day. Two years ago we purchased a Pearson-O'Day 290, number 7 of 8. Trailering is not a consideration, though I am currently building a trailer or bring her home. But, my down undah-brothah, the comfort of the 290 is something. It isn't like a 35 that comes with its own sous chef, but to get hot water on occasion, go below and make a cup of coffee or cocoa, go to the head then flush . . . it's like heaven after the 25 with the porta-pottie. Yes, there are big boat issues . . . systems that you need to blunder into, I mean, learn. But, that's what makes life fun, right?

And thanks to you Dscribner ,from what i have read on here and elsewhere that the 22 might just suit for single launch and retrieve ,then there is a gap up to a moored vessel 28 to say 32 of which there are plenty here available.but my original question was did small boat owners long for larger boats like yourself ,or did the big boat owners want to downsize for their reasons being cost or smaller they get to use it more?thanks again Gaz.

 

[JRT]

For us, I didn't know what we wanted till we got to know our O'Day 25. For the price and condition I'm very happy. After a year plus I've learned what we as a family would like.

For 4+ we really need a larger cockpit for one. The cabin is good but at 5' 11" I would like stand-up hand room. Opening ports for the cabin would be a plus for comfort too. I'm happy with buying my new sails and outboard but know these are costly fixes which will be considered in any future purchase. Finally I would like to have much new sail handling hardware, adjustable traveler, jib cars, and fuller and set up from cockpit.

I'm also more likely to go for the best condition and newer as right now I don't have the time for fixing issues. My area of sailing and future plans would also keep me in a shoal draft with good wide decks for accesing the bow and room for people to sit safely.

So that does mean we would like to move up to something to meet these requirements. But since we are not in any hurry we have a good boat for now till the next one comes along.

 

[berner73]

I've always appreciated the advice that before making a decision to move up in size, wax your current boat, and then see what you think. So... find a friend with a 22' boat, and one with a 32' boat. Then compound and wax their boats for them

 

[Ken Cross]

Having been there...

Big boats are...

• At some point, too much trouble to take out for the day.

Here I disagree because for us, the smaller boats were kept on a trailer. I guess that could have been solved if we had kept her in the water. To sail our bigger boats we just pull off the curtains, mast cover, and drop the lines.
When we had our trailer sailor we had to step the mast, install the sails, and fill the ballast and launch before we could sail. Then empty the ballast, stow the sails, and unstep before we were done. We rarely took the trailered boat out unless we had all day or longer.
Ken