Tiller tamer recommendations

Charlie H · Feb 3, 2015

Strowley said:
I bought a used late 1990s capri 22 standard height wing keel out of Oakland last July and drove it up to Olympia WA. I sailed it August and September and am eagerly awaiting time to put back in the water. It is my first time with a family sized sailboat of this size (previously had smaller boats)and I absolutely love it. My question is if anyone has a recommendation for a specific tiller tamer system that is simple to use on this boat. Thanks in advance for feedback.
Scott

I've used the Cansail Tiller Lock for a few seasons now, and find it effective: http://www.marineoutfitters.ca/index.cf ... ler%20Lock

I like how the Tiller Lock employs a simple and quick lever to grip and release the tiller line.

Had I known about the WaveFront TillerClutch at the time I was in the market, I would have looked at it very closely and quite possibly opted for it: http://www.wavefrontmarine.com/

Charlie

shnool · Feb 3, 2015

If you wind up single handing a lot... on your long-term list of "toys" you might want, consider an inexpensive tiller pilot, the TP10 (simrad) or slightly better the ST1000+ (Raymarine)... I've used the ST1000+ and from a solo sailors perspective it's probably one of the coolest things you can buy yourself for the boat. I find it MOST useful when motoring into the wind (holding course) to raise sails, and when motoring back (buttoning up the boat)..

I know this isn't what you asked, and a simple tiller tamer is also a step on the road to a tiller pilot, but with such a small boat, a tiller tamer, buys you about 30 seconds or so... where a tiller pilot can buy you nearly as much time as you have water left on a tack.

It's not all peaches and cream with a tiller pilot mind you, they don't work well above 25 degrees of heel, can go whacky if you experience a magnetic field, and generally don't do well with a 30% wind speed adjustment (gusts/holes)... however, they DO recover... where a tamer cannot. At $400 it might be too large a percentage of your boat's price to swallow, but keep in mind it'll easily add that to the value of your boat at sale, or better, can be used on a move up boat...

Again, not trying to spend your money, just trying to offer you a "cadillac" solution.

Charlie H · Feb 3, 2015

Schnool, would you mind commenting on the installation procedure for a tiller pilot? Wondering how difficult an install it is. I am interested in getting a tiller pilot, but I'd need to budget considerably more if this is the kind of kit I would need a pro to install.

I've done little projects such a upgrading the cabin lights to LEDs, installing a new boom kicker bracket, a tiller lock (obv), etc. Installing a tiller pilot would be a step up and I am trying to gauge just how high.

Thanks,
Charlie

shnool · Feb 3, 2015

Charlie if you just want the tiller pilot to steer a course, you can get away with a pretty simple install...
2 wires (with an inline 10amp fuse) to the battery... drill a hole for the socket (comes with rubber backing to watertight it)... 4 screws... connecting the wires to it is easy, they are screw terminal (tiny screws)... the socket is 5 pin, you need to mark the 2 power you need, but that's pretty easy. Pin in the tiller, 90 degrees between tiller and TP, and 18-20 inches from the pintles.

Each manufacturer has pedestal mounts (raise the butt), and tiller extensions (if the TP has to be farther away), there are also drops to put the tip end lower at the tiller... for lots of ways to set the tiller pilot up level (when the boat is at rest and flat).

This all sounds way more complex than it really is (so lemme post some pictures of my present install, keep in mind that the TP I bought is also simnet, and NMEA 0183 connections so more wires). So anyway... A Raymarine ST1000+ with just steer to course, is pretty straightforward...
This is my S2 7.9 as I said.. but, here's the TP butt end pin.

So the tiller should be pretty flat... I used a board to get placement... This is showing my TP22 Simrad.

This is the ST1000+ on my Capri 25... so the tiller is on a post through the floor, simpler install in my mind... but maybe it'll make more sense seeing this... note the pin in the tiller... you must epoxy it in. but if you drill the hole the right size, the epoxy is actually more to hold the pin from coming out, than in place.

Now that I've had a tiller pilot, I won't single hand without one (if I can afford to avoid it).. I sailed for 2 seasons with no Tiller Pilot, when I sold my Capri 25, I bought the S2, I was ready to install my ST1000+ on the S2, but when I chose Simrad instruments, I wanted a TP that integrated with it. So I sailed it for about 10 outings with no TP... I can do it just fine, but I missed it. Yeah, I actually missed a stupid piece of electronics.

So I sold my TP to the old owner (nice guy, sold it cheap)... and put the money towards the simrad instead. My point in upgrading from the ST1000+ to the TP22 on the S2 was the S2 has a pretty heavy tiller so I wanted to go up in size, and I wanted the niceties of steer to apparent wind..

So now I have GPS, with DSC, knotmeter, depth, temp, and windspeed, wind direction, stereo with bluetooth, LED running lights, and a tiller pilot integrated to the steer to wind, and GPS (steer to course)..... on a flipping 26 foot boat (yeah I'm not quite right)... But my goals are to sail the boat in bigger waters so I want some "safety" touches... DSC is a biggy as is a beefier tiller pilot. New(er) sails will be on the horizon next...

But seriously I think dollar for dollar the Raymarine ST1000+ (as opposed to the Simrad TP10), which you can later add integration to raymarine electronics for steer to wind, etc... is probably a great product for the single hander for the Capri 22... when you step up to the ST2000+, then the Simrad TP22 is similar in price and functions.

tom h Capri 22 · Feb 3, 2015

Hi Scott, This is Tom, glad your enjoying your Capri,I miss it.
I was ready to get a Tiller pilot for it if i was going to keep it,would never have a boat with out one however, the tiller clutch that was recommended looks like a nice design,simple and effective.
I'm sailing a beautiful Newport 28 mk ll now and loving it
I still look in on you guys here at the CP22 board every now and then to keep up on the latest.

Charlie H · Feb 4, 2015

Schnool, thanks for the detailed write-up! Much appreciated. I'm am going to put this top on my project list. Charlie

tom h Capri 22 · Feb 4, 2015

I'm sure every one on this board would agree.......that's one lucky girl
Great photo

bigpapaporsche · Feb 5, 2015

I am also considering both the Raymarine T1000 and a Tiller Tamer, maybe the Forespar's Tiller Box. However, I have my reservations about the Tiller Box. I've read several comments about the Tiller Box, some not so good. Secondly, you have to cut a fairly big hole in the coaming to countersink the Box into. I think the cost is around $45.00. Also, as with most Tiller Tamers I've seen, LINES are used on either side of the Tiller to keep it in place. The problem is these lines restricts your movement around the cockpit! On the other hand,the Tiller Box or other TP only block one side of the Tiller. When you think about it, for another $400.00 you can have the T1000, which really does the job. I think I just talked myself into the T1000.

shnool · Feb 6, 2015

I hate to be brand biased but the Raymarine St1000+ can be integrated with a seatalk network, whereas the Simrad TP10 cannot... On the next size up (overkill and $100 more).... the ST2000+ and the TP22 can both easily be networked. So on the tiller pilot small size, I personally think Raymarine has the advantage.

I'll add that a tiller pilot is usually pretty easy to flip off for quick movements of the tiller. I actually have had some "emergency" disconnects of the raymarine in my Capri 25... The place I located it allowed me to "flip" the tip of the TP and it would auto-rotate out of the way. um, at 35 degrees of heel, that "auto rotate" can be nearly abuse to the unit, I know because I broke the internal fluxgate compass from some abuse... By the way a $95 part is required (the whole compass) when only the plastic frame it is mounted in needs replaced.. Hard to find the part, and they all come from the UK (Ebay is your friend).

But yeah the Capri 22, and Capri 25, and even the S2 7.9 have a tiller that crowds the mainsheet traveler, so lifting it up to get out of the way, one would need to be careful to "arrange" a tiller tamer such that you can lift the tiller up to switch sides easily. The forespar tiller lockbox would seem to be a pretty extreme option honestly. Just my $0.02... but I think I'd prefer that option over the tiller tamer for just the above reason.

Mattw79 · Feb 6, 2015

The Tiller Clutch is one of the best investments i've made for the boat. I tried the Davis Tiller Tamer once, and though it was too cumbersome and slow. So I looked into other options as well and was leaning towards the tiller box. I experimented with a few ideas that accomplished the same thing as the tiller box without the holes, but found it was even more cumbersome and slower than the tamer. Especially for small course corrections. After two seasons with the clutch, I end up leaving it engaged more often than not. It's extremely quick to adjust, and when disengaged, the slight nothing compared to the tamer. I have the lines run to the same clamcleats as I did with the Tiller Tamer, and if I want zero drag on the tiller, i just unhook the one next to me. When I don't need it, I secure the lines to a bungee ball I keep on the tiller (see pics below). The other downside of the Tiller Tamer is that if you mount it underneath the tiller, be prepared to tear your knee open on the sharp plastic edges. The clutch is aluminum with (safe) smooth rounded corners which also make it easier taking the tiller cover on and off.

Ensign Andrew on watch

jepomer · Feb 6, 2015

I have used a Tiller Tamer ($40), Tiller Clutch ($80), and TP100 ($400) Tiller Pilot (an earlier version of the TP10).

I liked the Tiller Tamer since I could vary the tension/friction on the line. I liked having enough friction to keep the tiller from flopping around, yet still be easily nudged for fine directional adjustments.

Later at Matt's suggestion I tried the Tiller Clutch. The simple ON/OFF tension is also nice to use. It locks the tiller in place with a simple flick of a finger. It does let the tiller move if you push somewhat forcefully.

Last year I had an older TP100 that was in working order. It needed a tiller arm bracket located under the tiller (stays out of the way for my tiller extender in its resting position). The other end went on a 3" Raymarine Pedestal socket assembly (yup, these parts can go both ways) with the flange mounted on the starboard locker hatch. The power comes through a 2-pin water tight connector mounted on the cockpit wall.

Last year I ended up sailing alone several times. The Tiller Pilot made single handling so easy. It would keep a course freeing me to do other things that I could not do with the Tiller Clutch or the Tiller Tamer. This Tiller Pilot was old and used and had at least one repair. Near the end of the season it stopped working.

I was already very spoiled when I had to go back to using the Tiller Clutch with no notice! The Tiller pilot worked very well for my needs justifying purchasing a new TP10 this Spring to replace the old TP100.

Each one works well for its design. At one point I had all three mounted on tiller (I like to experiment). Cost may make you chose one over another. Right now I have the Tiller Clutch for most "hands on" sailing and the Tiller Pilot for extending my single-handed sailing.

Curt · Feb 8, 2015

First my 2 cents about tiler tamer type products. The tiller clutch is a nice idea but you are required to keep a grasp on the tiller clutch when steering manually. Others have to be snapped into place or cleated off. I have tried a few but always come back to the simple length of rope, or redneck tiller tamer as I have seen it called. Take a simple length of rope and secure it to either stern cleat, wrap it three times around the tiller ( from bow to stern) and then secure the loose end to the opposite stern cleat with a bit of slack. The idea is to slide the three wraps toward the bow and the tiller will be held firmly in place by the taught line. Once you have completed whatever task that required both hands simply slide the three wraps to the rudder end of the tiller and you once again have full tiller control. It is simple and works very well if I have to go forward to untangle a line or sheet or below for another frosty beverage.

Although a tiller tamer will give you a short respite from the tiller it will never maintain any sort of coarse over any length of time.

A question about mounting a Raymarine auto pilot on the Capri 22. I have an old unit that was used on our 1965 built Columbia. It was pin mounted to seat and level to the tiller. On the Capri the tiller is considerably higher than the seat and the deck of the pit is both to high and way to far back. Has anyone used either a pedestal mount or arm extensions? I built a pedestal mount to use on the seat but it looked awkward so I never installed it.

Frozen in Buffalo,
Curt

jepomer · Feb 10, 2015

Curt said:
A question about mounting a Raymarine auto pilot on the Capri 22. I have an old unit that was used on our 1965 built Columbia. It was pin mounted to seat and level to the tiller. On the Capri the tiller is considerably higher than the seat and the deck of the pit is both to high and way to far back. Has anyone used either a pedestal mount or arm extensions? I built a pedestal mount to use on the seat but it looked awkward so I never installed it.

Frozen in Buffalo,
Curt

Curt,

I used a short 3" pedestal bolted on the starboard cover. The pedestal threads into a flange mounted on the seat. When not using the Tiller Pilot, the pedestal simply unscrews and gets put away. The resulting surface is almost level. My wife likes to sit on a cushion. I provide my own...

I'd take pictures, but there's a bit of snow around here.

Curt · Feb 13, 2015

John,

Thanks for the follow up. I have 5" of snow in my yard so I understand your reluctance to run right out and take a pic. No worries, it will be at least 9 months (or so it seems) until boat uncovering season. I will look forward to a picture or two in the spring.

How did you get a way with a 3" pedestal? The tiller is at least 8" higher than the seat hatch cover. Did you install a bracket on the underside of the tiller to lower the connection point?

I did build a similar pedestal last year and it was around 8" tall to make for a level connection. I never installed it because such a long lever under load would have surely damaged the seat where the flange would have been connected. What am I missing/

Cheers,
Curt

jepomer · Feb 13, 2015

Curt,

I purchased a Raymarine 3.5" pedestal socket from Defender. The pin hole was probably metric 6 mm and felt tight inserting my older TP100 into it. I reamed it out using a 1/4" drill bit. It works wonderfully now.

D026 - Pedestal Socket 89mm (3.5")
Pedestal Assemblies are used to raise the fixed end of the tillerpilot.
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?pat ... id=1044273

The Tiller Pilot TP100 came to me with the tiller lowering bracket. Using that bracket with the 3-1/2" pedestal left the Tiller Pilot level. The mounting was not in the way of my tiller clutch (mounted on bottom) or tiller extender (mounted on top, storing clip also on top).

Simrad Tiller Arm Bracket
2.36" (60mm) High Bracket
Used To Lower Or Raise The Tiller End Mounting Point
http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... id=1313056

Being on the outskirts of Boston, we have escaped the worst of the storms. We've been getting only 12" to 16" each storm. Running out of places to put the snow. The end of January I finally covered the boats. The last real storm we had was at Thanksgiving. My son spent an afternoon helping me get each of the five boats (at various levels of restoration) covered before the first of the February storms. Tarped them with masts set high to shed the snow. It's been working well!

Curt · Feb 14, 2015

Thanks for the clarification. 3.5" pedestal and a tiller mount bracket in combination. I was hoping to not use a lower bracket on the tiller so as to not clutter it up.

I may just install the flange pedestal I made and see how it works. If the forces are to much and start to deteriorate the hatch mount configuration I can always do as you have.

Buffalo has had a fair bit of snow this season and the snow blower can't throw it high enough at he end of the driveway. We keep Chigaletta on the hard at our marina on the waterfront. I had a tarp cut to fit two seasons ago and have the mast u a bit, fortunately the winds on the waterfront keep the snow loads fairly light.

Thanks for your input. As always this board is full of it...

Stay warm,
Curt

jepomer · Feb 16, 2015

The bracket mounted below the tiller got it out of the way for me. It kept the force on the pedestal minimal.

The Tiller Pilot can also have an extension put on the tiller end. That way you can have the other end pinned on the side deck.

So nice to have choices!

wamwam1 · Feb 16, 2015

I got my 22 a couple of years ago and love it for the sensitivity and responsiveness it offers.
I know we each have our preference, and nothing wrong with that, but I am surprised that there is so much interest in taming the tiller other than by hand.
When I am alone on the boat I might use a tiller tamer when I need to reef but otherwise I manually operate the tiller to enable me to overtake those bigger boats (with autopilots?).
I'm not being critical but I find it to be interesting that so many would want an autopilot on such a design of boat.

Tiller tamer recommendations

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