thoughts on the condition of this sail?

[rardiH36]

Jumping in a little late: But impressions are that if you do need to maintain your elevated boom height so that it clears the bimini, you are going to have a hard time getting the existing sail to work. Looking at your photos, the luff is just too long for you to tension. (And the droopy boom look just might possibly detract from the fine Catalina design?). One option would be just to rig the sail permanently at your existing reef point. However that would sacrifice some performance on typical sailing days in light wind.

Alternatively, have you considered looking for a second hand sail that has your "new" luff length? One that also has your current sail's foot length (which by your pictures might be on the cusp of being too long?) If the second-hand sail otherwise looks good, and you aren't racing, the foot can even be up to 6-9" inches less. Won't make that much difference for recreational sailing. Second hand sails can be found in many on line stores such as this link: http://secondwindsails.com/used-sails-main-1.php. Second hand could be an affordable option if the used sail has those second reef points you are considering. The total might not cost all that more than modifying your current sail ... ?

 

[hawk232]

I appreciate all the help but somehow it is being continuously overlooked that I tensioned the sail 3" past full up THEN mounted the Bimini... In these pics, the luff has 3" of tension PAST full up on it. I still have 2" more before the headboard is maxed out. How is this sail not going to work?? I'm sorry, I just don't understand??

This afternoon I will lower the boom all the way and retention the luff and post pics to show that the boom still sags (if it does)

 

[rardiH36]

I appreciate all the help but somehow it is being continuously overlooked that I tensioned the sail 3" past full up THEN mounted the Bimini... In these pics, the luff has 3" of tension PAST full up on it. I still have 2" more before the headboard is maxed out. How is this sail not going to work?? I'm sorry, I just don't understand??

This afternoon I will lower the boom all the way and retention the luff and post pics to show that the boom still sags (if it does)

Because I am not on-site to experiment with you (and also myself acknowledging anyway that other than myself "going at" sail stuff for about 10 years, I am not an expert by any means), I probably am missing a key piece here. But here goes anyway:

I just looked at your photos again. Hard to tell, but I think to see a line leading through your cunningham grommet. (The one on the luff just below the North Sail emblem.) The line appears to be under tension. And you have a strange fold in the sail fabric at your tack grommet. Is it possible that this line be secured is giving you the impression of a fully tensioned full sail length luff? This would be the case if the luff has been shortened by the pulled down cunnignham grommet. Effectively a "shorter" luff, with the leach still being the same designed length as before, then the probable result is Hanging Down Boom syndrome.

If you slacken the cunningham line, you might now find that your luff won't tension with the available mast height and the higher gooseneck position.

(Just an aside -- if this cunningham line is connected, be careful about putting too much winch tension on the luff. I once tore around my grommet by doing this. The cunningham grommet and webbing was designed on my sail only for pulling down on the luff to remove lower luff slack. Full winch tension was too much for it.) (Another aside: If your luff is now slack, avoid forcing the sail's head all the way to the top. The shackle could get wedged into the sheeve slot and will be difficult to remove from down on the deck.)

My observation might also be supported as follows: With your photo of the sail up on my computer screen, I measured the distance between the reef grommet at the luff to the top of the boom = 14mm. Same measurement between the reef clew and the top of the boom is 18mm. Normally the distance should be the same.

I'm pretty sure that for most typically cut recreational sails, if the luff is fully tensioned, the boom normally rests at a more-or-less horizontal position. If the mast is tall enough to the sheeve at the masthead, horizontal would be the case whether you have moved the gooseneck either up or down. If the cunningham line is slackened and and the boom is still drooping when the luff is fully tensioned, then consider that something is unusual with the cut of the sail.

As experiment, reef your sail. Release tension on the mainsheet. Providing the wind velocity is absolutely zero (not even one mph more), hoist it. Tension the luff. See if the boom is now horizontal. Should be.

 

[Joe]

The sliding gooseneck is there for a "downhaul" control. It is effective with attached foot sails because it pulls the entire boom down, removing some of the draft in the lower part of the sail... whereas a Cunningham only tensions the sail's luff, moving the draft position.

I look at the pics of your sail and I see a "bunching" at the tack...and the clew is flat. Can you see that?

So.. with the sail fully hoisted... remove any obstacle in the sail track and rig a downhaul to pull the front of the boom level with the clew. It will not interfere with the bimini.

 

[hawk232]

alright well I tried some of the thoughts in this thread. I lowered the boom as far as it could go without the lowest slug falling out of the mast gate. didn't help anything


tried a few other various positions to no avail. finally I decided what the heck and I really cranked on the halyard


seems to have done the trick. my mistake? I ASSUMED that the yachtbraid XLS line wouldn't stretch as much as it did. I was gauging my luff stretch my the line I was winching in rather than watching the luff. In these pics I pulled the halyard a total of about 7" PAST "all the way up" by hand. I could play the halyard like a banjo. seem right??



I also went ahead and cut down the bimini some more so that it will clear with the boom at its lowest position.

 

[Kestle]

As your Doctor, I recommend you take 2-3 weekends testing your new sail shape to see if it has healed.

Please tell your wife I think it wise to begin as early as possible.

Jeff

 

[rardiH36]

Maybe there are other Catalina 22 owners available on a Catalina Forum you can ask for asistance? I say this because another factor is the rake of the mast. Depending on which picture I look at, the mast does seem to angle towards the aft (not vertical) quite a bit. Maybe a lot more than typical for a trailer sailor type boat? Excessive mast rake of course would cause the boom to droop down towards your bimini. Maybe this is the Cat 22 design. But also maybe at some point the standing rigging was replaced and maybe not to original design spec? Since your mast is designed to hinge down and be easily removed for trailering, are adjustments to the standing rigging easily done? The degree of rake does affect a boat's performance characteristics. So do more homework before modifying.

Going back to the sail, regarding moving the gooseneck up or down, this wouldn't effect the height of the boom at the end by much. That would be a consequence of the sail's leach length. Solution for that would be to have a sail maker move the clew further up the leach. A few layers of new Dacron would have to be added around the new clew to reinforce this high stress area. I have read that boat owners sometimes do this mod. Mostly for the same reason that you desire a higher boom. Also on larger boats to keep the boom above standing head level for people in the cockpit. The boom height on my boat when the OEM sail is installed (yes I still have it!) is my head's temple height. Another sail I have (originally for a Catalina 36) was designed with a shorter leach. When I've got this sail on, the boom height at the cockpit is a couple of inches above my 6'3" level. I am much more comfortable sailing with the Catalina 36 sail installed.

 

[rardiH36]

Going back to the sail, regarding moving the gooseneck up or down, this wouldn't effect the height of the boom at the end by much.

Re the above quoted sentence from my previous post an hour or so ago. It should have been:

" Going back to the sail, regarding moving the gooseneck up or down, this wouldn't affect the angle of the boom by much."

Sorry. Of course if say you are able to hoist your sail's luff up another 5" by raising the gooseneck 5", then yes the boom end would go up the same distance. But the angle of the boom remains the same. It's the ratio of luff length to leach length which determines the angle. And as I opined, also take a look at your mast rake compared to Catalina's spec.