This forward hatch has a GASKET?!?!

[emergpa1]

Hello,
On the deck side of the frame of the forward hatch I just got from Rudy at D&R is a rubber gasket! Does that mean i do not put buty or whatever?
I know that the trimatrix ports I recently ordered also have a gasket and are supposed to be installed without sealant. (even the bolt heads have small o rings that sit in a groove. NFM assured me that they won't leak. at least not anymore chance than any other. I am nervous about that, but as a small lake sailor, i have the luxury of giving it a try without any risk.)
has anyone installed this type of forward hatch yet? It was the one listed on D&R's website for the oday 26
Of course I will call rudy, but i was hoping someone had experience with it and could give me some ideas.
thanks for any info
keith

 

[emergpa1]

here are the pix

 

[emergpa1]

the first picture above is of the gasket as it would lay against the deck of the boat.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Keith,

Interesting. My hatch is also bomar but no gasket.

I would try without sealant and after you install it, hose it down.

Ed K

 

[Joe11688]

the first picture above is of the gasket as it would lay against the deck of the boat.

Keith,
I go along with Ed's suggestion. Frankly, I don't really know, but if you do need a sealant, you'll want to use Dow Corning 795. My hatch didn't come with a gasket. It does have a square plastic ring that fits over the flange on the inside. It only fits one way on my hatch for the holes to line up. So if you need to apply the caulking, you may want make sure that the square ring's hole all line up by taking it through a dry run first. Nothing is ever easy, keith. I found that out a long time ago. :cussing:
Joe

 

[emergpa1]

Rudy Said.....

sound advice. Rudy called back yesterday afternoon. He was surpised that there was a gasket there. He put me on hold for a moment, then went to look at one in his shop. When he came back he said yes, the others did also, and that was something that bomar/gray must have just started. He thought it was a good idea in that it should keep the sealent from getting sqeezed out. He felt like there should still be sealent inside of the seal. As you can see on the picture, the screw holes are inside of the seal. That area could be a good place to run butyl tape. I think that is what i will go with (first).
There is no help from the pampanette site at all except for some ridiculously oversimplified generalized instruction, and a single nondiscript line drawing of two curves laying side by side.
keith

 

[emergpa1]

AND the Darn thing is too big!!!!!!

I took the hatch out to the boat to do a "dry run" install, and....sigh... the hatch is to large. the maximum overall size that will fit into the space (not the cutout size, but overall size) is 19 1/2. The overal hatch size is 20 inches by 20 inches. Even though rudy's site says that it is 19 1/8 X 19 3/8...dang it! :cussing:

 

[emergpa1]

here is how it doesn't fit:neutral:

 

[emergpa1]

my first order from d & r marine....keith is not very happy, not happy at all.........

 

[Joe11688]

my first order from d & r marine....keith is not very happy, not happy at all.........

Keith,
What are you going to do now? If you make the opening a little larger, the holes won't line up. On my original Grey Marine hatch, I have S.S. machine screws that go through the top of the hatch flange, and a square ring that fits over the hatch flange with these special cap nuts. The cap nuts have a Phillips head and the holes in the square ring are larger than the holes in hatch flange. It's a real goofy setup. One of my friends bought a hatch off Rudy for his OD 222. The hatch fit, but the holes didn't line up. So he brought it back. You may have to enlarge the opening a little and fill in the holes, and re-drill them. A dremel Tool or a Whizzer could make it fit. I wouldn't cut anything on the hinge side of the opening though. I went through the same problem with a Bomar Hatch that I bought off Defender Marine in CT. Only the hatch was a little too small for the opening on my boat. I brought the hatch back to them and had to wait a couple of weeks for my refund. I wound up buying a used Grey Marine Hatch off Rudy last year, and used it to rebuild my old hatch. I had to use the lens from my hatch to install into the hatch cover from the hatch that I bought off Rudy. I rebuilt that whole hatch and made it better than the original. I may have pictures of it in my photo album on this site. I've found that these plastic hatches that they have out on the market are nothing but over priced junk. They got'cha coming and going. Good luck!
Joe

 

[emergpa1]

its not the opening, it is the overall size of the frame

It won't help to cut the opening, the overall hatch size is 20 inches wide and 20 inches long (fore to aft). The space in that little depression is only 19 and 1/2 inches. There is no way to fit a larger hatch without a complete change of the foreard deck over the v-birth.
I may be hard to tell from the picture, but the frame doesn't fit into the "depression" for the hatch. See how the deck drops down to form a flat area for the hatch, then, as you go forward, goes back up? that area between those two ledges is only 19 1/2 inches. So a 20 inch hatch will not fit in. actually the opening would be fine if the frame would fit. I have already filled in the old screw holles with epoxy, and reinforeced the deck at that point. It had a lot of stress cracks around the hatch.

 

[Joe11688]

Re: its not the opening, it is the overall size of the frame

That's a real bummer. How bad is the old hatch? Is it broken in the lower corners where the dog knobs swing in? Is the lens cracked? It's hard to find a hatch to fit the opening on O'Days. I came close to buying a metal Bomar or Lumar hatch for $200 at Newport Consignment Store. I brought my old hatch with me and took it into the store to match it up with it. The only thing that worried me was that the hinge on their hatch was on the outside and it may have prohibited the cover from opening on my boat because of that indentation. Also the opening on the metal hatch was a little narrower than my old hatch. That hatch probably went for $400 new, but what good is it if I can't fit through it if I had to? That's why I decided to fix my old hatch. One of the guys on this forum built a hatch for his O'Day 23 out of wood. It came out looking beautiful like a piece of furniture. My question is; if the hatch is a little too high for that indentation, will the Gennie sheets get caught on it when he tacks? I suppose, that's why they have that indentation in there in the first place. It's a shame that Grey Marine went out of business. Their hatches weren't all that great, but they probably could have improved on them and still be selling replacement hatches for our boats.
Joe

 

[emergpa1]

Re: its not the opening, it is the overall size of the frame

I still have the old hatch, the lens came out, and i cant seem to get that glue residue off. It seems to be part of the plastic of the hatch frame, so it must have been some kinda of glue that "welded" the plastic. It is smooth, and if rudy can;t find one to fit, it may be that i am going to have to repair the old hatch as best I can.
The old one does have some cracked areas around the screw holes, and it is held shut with a screen door type hook and eye.
Maybe rudy has one that fits and he just sent me the wrong one, I will of course be calling D & R Monday!!!!!
keith

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Re: its not the opening, it is the overall size of the frame

Keith,

I got my replacement hatch from West Marine. I was very careful and precise in matching the measurements because of the shape of where it goes. I will have to look and see if I can find the model number. I may have thrown out that edition of West Marine catalog.

I could only find two hatches that were the correct dimensions for the 26. There was a close fit in the off shore series, it was about 1/2" larger and probably would have meant cutting a bigger hole. And then maybe it presented the same issues as you have. I paid over $200.00. The orginal was broken beyond though of repair. Probably vandalism.

Anyway, I know mine is Bomar. As you have said, they are unresponsive to inquires.

Ed K

 

[Shoaldrafter]

Re: its not the opening, it is the overall size of the frame

Keith,

The catalog that I had that marked up in is history. I suspect that it is Bomar G966-1111. Rudy probably sent you G965-1111.

Series 40 offshore models come close in measurement. It would depend of overlap of the seal.

My replacement was flimsier than original but all holes match exact exept one. The trim piece was identical.

I would have considered the offshore model 40 if I knew that they would fit, but somebody else had told me the replacement was a Bomar, so as not to find myself in your situation, I went with the one that I did. It is acceptable, but light weight. Not suitable for offshore sailing in weather.

Now that you are an expert in fiberglass reconstuction, maybe you can mold the foredeck around the new port?

Ed K
26

 

[Shoaldrafter]

On 26 cannot tack with hatch open

That's a real bummer. How bad is the old hatch? Is it broken in the lower corners where the dog knobs swing in? Is the lens cracked? It's hard to find a hatch to fit the opening on O'Days. I came close to buying a metal Bomar or Lumar hatch for $200 at Newport Consignment Store. I brought my old hatch with me and took it into the store to match it up with it. The only thing that worried me was that the hinge on their hatch was on the outside and it may have prohibited the cover from opening on my boat because of that indentation. Also the opening on the metal hatch was a little narrower than my old hatch. That hatch probably went for $400 new, but what good is it if I can't fit through it if I had to? That's why I decided to fix my old hatch. One of the guys on this forum built a hatch for his O'Day 23 out of wood. It came out looking beautiful like a piece of furniture. My question is; if the hatch is a little too high for that indentation, will the Gennie sheets get caught on it when he tacks? I suppose, that's why they have that indentation in there in the first place. It's a shame that Grey Marine went out of business. Their hatches weren't all that great, but they probably could have improved on them and still be selling replacement hatches for our boats.
Joe

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe said, "My question is; if the hatch is a little too high for that indentation, will the Gennie sheets get caught on it when he tacks?" On the 26, the hatch must be closed to tack or the sheets catch.:naughty:

Ed K
26

 

[emergpa1]

Keith,

The catalog that I had that marked up in is history. I suspect that it is Bomar G966-1111. Rudy probably sent you G965-1111.

Series 40 offshore models come close in measurement. It would depend of overlap of the seal.

My replacement was flimsier than original but all holes match exact exept one. The trim piece was identical.

I would have considered the offshore model 40 if I knew that they would fit, but somebody else had told me the replacement was a Bomar, so as not to find myself in your situation, I went with the one that I did. It is acceptable, but light weight. Not suitable for offshore sailing in weather.

Now that you are an expert in fiberglass reconstuction, maybe you can mold the foredeck around the new port?

Ed K
26

Fiberglass screw up expert is more like it...hey, I think i would use duct tape before I would build a new foredeck

 

[Joe11688]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Joe said, "My question is; if the hatch is a little too high for that indentation, will the Gennie sheets get caught on it when he tacks?" On the 26, the hatch must be closed to tack or the sheets catch.:naughty:

Ed K
26

No Ed. That's not what I meant. What I meant was; if a guy were to build a new hatch out of wood, he'd have to consider the height of the closed hatch and make sure that the sheets don't get caught on it.

 

[captnlar]

I have the same hatch ordered from this site, same problem, too big.Was able to make it fit by grinding down some of the plastic top and bottom with my dremel tool. Took off quite a bit of material but fits now and no leaks, not how I like to do things but oh well.

 

[emergpa1]

i examined the hatch for just that option, i didn't think i could do trim it without affecting the integrety of the hatch, but i will look at it again.
I just got off the phone with rudy and he is calling the factory, which is bad news. Good news would have been;"sorry i sent the wrong one, i will send another out right away".
It looks like i may be trying to repair the old hatch.